Adding Power

[vta]

Due to the nature of our hobby, upgrading electrical equipment can be a risk to one's health and freedom. That's why I wanted to run this by the Pro's (where you at rives ).

I built a 4 room building in my garage. Veg, Bloom, Lung and Office. The only electrical in the garage is a 20 amp circuit that is being utilized by the washer/dryer. I also just bought a new Jacuzzi and need 220 for that.

I ran conduit and wire to a Lug. Blk, Red, White all #6 then a #8 Green. This lug has 4 spaces. I have two 50A double breakers. One is for the run to the panel in my growroom(3 wires Blk,Red,Grn for 120v service) the other to the 50a GCFI that feeds the Jacuzzi (220v).

My question is about the ground(s). Below is my Main, there is no ground bar right? The bar you see is neutral?



Someone told me to connect BOTH Green and White to that Bus...Is this correct or do I install a new ground bar in that box? You can see there is 1 blank space, I will be installing a tandem breaker there so I can free up two spaces...where a 50a double pole will go...where my new Blk and Red wires go




Continued below...

 

[vta]

Now from my panel we go to the Lug and once again the only bar there is neutral, correct?



So same question, connect both White and Green to this Bar? Something is telling me that I will need to install a new ground bar in my Main and also in my new Lug.



There are 2 circuits leaving the Lug, the 1st will be...50a breaker-Blk and Red connected to that and then Green will go to the existing Bar or the newly installed ground Bar, whatever was answered from above question. These wires go to the growroom panel...120v. Below is the growroom panel to be installed. Again, I know where Blk and Red go..I assume Green can go on either Bus??



The 2nd circuit leaving the Lug goes to the Jacuzzi's GCFI. 4 Wires...this time there is a neutral and a ground bar. Easy from here...out from GCFI to Jacuzzi hookup, will be using liquid proof flex line from a local box.





It all starts at the Main...do I just hook up the White and Green to the existing Bar...if so do the same in the Lug? Or put in a new ground bar in the Main and at the Lug.

Thanks for taking the time to read...must of been painful for ya, going by how high I am right now...

 

[Hammerhead]

The main should have a ground. Your main is small are you sure thats your main?? Mine is a 200a service mine Has a Neutral buss and a ground buss. I know old homes use to have the grd and neutral together or no ground wires had that cloth on it. I dont think yours is that old. If you dont have a grd you will need to add one.

 

[vta]

Yeah it's my main. 100amp service. House was built early 70's. This is why my friend say hook both Green and White to the bar...but I think I should install a ground bar just for this run...then again maybe I don't and my friend is right

 

[rives]

Ok, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to miss something, but I'm feeling a little dizzy here!

Your main appears to be correctly wired - you have both grounds (the bare wires) and neutrals (the white wires) landed on the buss. This is the only panel that the grounds and the neutrals should be bonded together. All downstream sub-panels should have both a neutral buss and a ground buss, and they should be electrically isolated from each other. The ground buss is going to be the one that is bonded to the enclosure metal - this can be done with a long screw that ties them together or with a jumper from the box to the buss as shown on the left side of the breaker panel for your grow room. The neutrals should not come into contact with ground anywhere but at the main panel.

Your first sub-panel (um....lug?) needs to have an optional ground buss installed in it so that it looks like the spa panel and the sub-panel for the grow room. The grounds in each panel will be tied to the buss that is bonded to the box, and the neutrals will land on the buss that is isolated. Then, back at the main, they come together.

The growroom panel looks as though the buss on the right is probably the ground buss, but it would be good to see if it is bonded to the can if you have a continuity tester. The buss on the left appears to be the neutral buss because it has the optional bonding jumper mounted beside it.

Holler back on the stuff I missed!

 

[burns1n209]

if it was built early 70 and 60 you wont have a ground bus. best and safest option is to upgrade your panel to a new style with ground us, youll have you pound a 8 ft copper rod into the earth and then run an armored line from the rod to the panel. service upgrade is fairly cheap, sound like you know got the basic, you could probably pull it off. then you can saftely run a grounded line to the spa and to the garage.

 

[Iron_Lion]

The main panel is bonded, meaning the neutral and the ground are connected together. Sometimes with 1 ground bar and 1 neautral bar with a thin metal strip that connects the 2 of them or other times both connect to the same terminal strip.

The white and the green serve virtually the same purpose but do different jobs. The neutral is the GROUNDED conductor and takes unbalanced load and dissipates it to ground. The green wire is the GROUNDING conductor which protects against shorts, if damage occurs and the hot wire touches the ground the breaker will trip.

Sub panels do not have to be bonded.

 

[burns1n209]

didnt see the second picture of actuall main. you do have ground wire runnning, everything looks right there. do u see a wire running to your water facuet or a ground rod, on out side of panel to make sure it is actually grounded and the wire just not tied together(netural,ground)

 

[vta]

Thanks for the reply's Gents!

Ok, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to miss something, but I'm feeling a little dizzy here!

Your main appears to be correctly wired - you have both grounds (the bare wires) and neutrals (the white wires) landed on the buss. This is the only panel that the grounds and the neutrals should be bonded together. All downstream sub-panels should have both a neutral buss and a ground buss, and they should be electrically isolated from each other. The ground buss is going to be the one that is bonded to the enclosure metal - this can be done with a long screw that ties them together or with a jumper from the box to the buss as shown on the left side of the breaker panel for your grow room. The neutrals should not come into contact with ground anywhere but at the main panel.

Your first sub-panel (um....lug?) needs to have an optional ground buss installed in it so that it looks like the spa panel and the sub-panel for the grow room. The grounds in each panel will be tied to the buss that is bonded to the box, and the neutrals will land on the buss that is isolated. Then, back at the main, they come together.

The growroom panel looks as though the buss on the right is probably the ground buss, but it would be good to see if it is bonded to the can if you have a continuity tester. The buss on the left appears to be the neutral buss because it has the optional bonding jumper mounted beside it.

Holler back on the stuff I missed!

OK...so I hope I got this right. The main is fine as is...hook both my Green and White to it. At the the other end of those wires (Lug..that's what they call it out here I guess), The White goes to the existing bar and then I will connect the Green to a separate bus that I will install. So from the new ground bar in the Lug I connect the other two Greens..that go to GCFI and growroom panel. At the growroom panel I make sure the right bus is grounded with the case and after I verify that I hook the Green to it.

Now...at the main the Green and White are on the same bar...on the Lug they will be separate....do I need to Install a ground rod in the earth and connect that to the newly installed ground bus in the Lug??

Thanks again for everyone's help!!!

 

[Iron_Lion]

If you are installing a sub panel you do not need a ground rod.

If it was an entirely new service from the street to the garage, then you would need a ground rod.


For your sub panel grounding, take the ground from your feed wire from the main panel and attach it to the ground bar, then connect all future circuit grounds to that ground bar.

So the ground on the sub will be derived from you main panel. Your main panel is connected to earth grounding.

 

[rives]

If you are installing a sub panel you do not need a ground rod.

If it was an entirely new service from the street to the garage, then you would need a ground rod.

The only qualifier here would be that if the garage is a detached structure, then it should have it's own ground rod. If it is an integral part of the house, then it runs on the main's ground rod.

VTA, I've never heard "lug" used in that manner, but it is perfectly possible. Usually a lug in electrical terms is the terminal where an electrical connection is made, usually larger wire or cable. In your picture of the new panel for the growroom, there are lugs at the bottom of each of the busses feeding the breakers and the neutral buss on the left.

 

[vta]

If you are installing a sub panel you do not need a ground rod.

If it was an entirely new service from the street to the garage, then you would need a ground rod.


For your sub panel grounding, take the ground from your feed wire from the main panel and attach it to the ground bar, then connect all future circuit grounds to that ground bar.

So the ground on the sub will be derived from you main panel. Your main panel is connected to earth grounding.

The only qualifier here would be that if the garage is a detached structure, then it should have it's own ground rod. If it is an integral part of the house, then it runs on the main's ground rod.

VTA, I've never heard "lug" used in that manner, but it is perfectly possible. Usually a lug in electrical terms is the terminal where an electrical connection is made, usually larger wire or cable. In your picture of the new panel for the growroom, there are lugs at the bottom of each of the busses feeding the breakers and the neutral buss on the left.

Great ! Thanks again guys! So at the Main connect both White and Green to the existing bar...then connect the other side to a new bar in the Lug. On the new bar connect the growroom and GCFI 's Greens. Cool! And no ground rod.

Alright..I'm off to the hardware store.

rives...on the box its called a Main Lug Load center fwiw

 

[rives]

rives...on the box its called a Main Lug Load center fwiw

Yes, this means that it has lugs only, rather than a main breaker. You need a "main breaker kit" to change a "main lug" load center over to a "main breaker" load center.

 

[vta]

aahhh now it makes sense!

I picked up the ground bar...just need to run a little more conduit and then I'll hook it up!

Thanks again!!