Organic solutions for a pH Down

[Oregonism]

So this may have been covered in the past, but I am kind of looking to the boundaries of materials to use to lower pH [and to raise it as well for that matter]

One of my watering holes is probably over 8 pH [might be lower because of rain recently, but won't last as it gets hotter], so I need to drop it down just a tad.

Vinegar is an obvious solution, I even have some home-made accident blackberry vinegar, but I need to read up on concentration.

I also have access to berries like hawthorne's, huckleberrys, blackberry, all acid berries. I would make a soaked concentrated solution and just try to add that to water.

Other water solubles?

Other suggestions that are easily available?

 

[sal opette]

Citric acid

Save them and make wine with your berrys!

 

[Ghabi]

I have the opposite problem. Growing in pots in soil, the P.H. keeps dipping to below 5, can't figure out why. where I am there is no PH up products, only dolomite lime, but in coarse form which is slow release and long term. Any suggestions to raise PH using household or readily available products?

Highly appreciate any input for raising PH in soil.

Peace.

 

[Oregonism]

I have the opposite problem. Growing in pots in soil, the P.H. keeps dipping to below 5, can't figure out why. where I am there is no PH up products, only dolomite lime, but in coarse form which is slow release and long term. Any suggestions to raise PH using household or readily available products?

Highly appreciate any input for raising PH in soil.

Peace.

Sulfur, that I know! I collect mineral spring water and one spring has a handpump and its very smelly. I strip test it around 8pH, the other spring is saturated with natural Epsom salt, magnesium sulfate and it is slightly more acidic, just slight above neutral usually.

Baking soda is a household method, and I wonder if diatomaceous earth might also be a solution?
[So a solution of epsom salt dissolved might work as well if you could check pH]

Citric acid

Save them and make wine with your berrys!

Sal, great idea, didn't think about citric acid, I have a local brew shop that seems endless sometimes, lol.

I am definitely making huckleberry wine, but it will have to sit for over a year after a 2nd rack.

 

[Ghabi]

Sulfur, that I know! I collect mineral spring water and one spring has a handpump and its very smelly. I strip test it around 8pH, the other spring is saturated with natural Epsom salt, magnesium sulfate and it is slightly more acidic, just slight above neutral usually.

Baking soda is a household method, and I wonder if diatomaceous earth might also be a solution?
[So a solution of epsom salt dissolved might work as well if you could check pH]

Thank you, Oregonism, for the quick reply.

I knew about the baking soda, but worried it will do more harm than good. Is there a down side to the epsom salt use? a couple of tsps per gal of water..?

PH is such a sensitive element, wish I had a better handle of it. What would cause the PH (starting off at 6.5) in pot soil to drift down? I am light on nutes, and only apply as the plants call for it.

 

[Oregonism]

Thank you, Oregonism, for the quick reply.

I knew about the baking soda, but worried it will do more harm than good. Is there a down side to the epsom salt use? a couple of tsps per gal of water..? [Edit: I can't personally recommend baking soda, but the option lies out there]

PH is such a sensitive element, wish I had a better handle of it. What would cause the PH (starting off at 6.5) in pot soil to drift down? I am light on nutes, and only apply as the plants call for it.

There could be many reasons, soil material, overwatering, underwatering, water source?

More specifics about those, might help troubleshoot the problem.

As far as baking soda and Epsom salt, I would start with 1 tbsp per gallon to start. It would be nice to check your pH if you could, even pH strips would suffice.

Epsom Salt is an underrated and old organic amendment. Heavy sugar feeding fruits like tomatoes and hot peppers [related] need heavy amounts of magnesium and sulfate compounds and older generations of gardeners add extra epsom every other watering or so, after veg.
I have heard it suggested for climates that receive a fair amount of precipitation through out the year...35+ inches [75+cm]. So I would assume it brings up the pH of weathered soil.

 

[Ghabi]

There could be many reasons, soil material, overwatering, underwatering, water source?

More specifics about those, might help troubleshoot the problem.

As far as baking soda and Epsom salt, I would start with 1 tbsp per gallon to start. It would be nice to check your pH if you could, even pH strips would suffice.

Epsom Salt is an underrated and old organic amendment. Heavy sugar feeding fruits like tomatoes and hot peppers [related] need heavy amounts of magnesium and sulfate compounds and older generations of gardeners add extra epsom every other watering or so, after veg.
I have heard it suggested for climates that receive a fair amount of precipitation through out the year...35+ inches [75+cm]. So I would assume it brings up the pH of weathered soil.

Thank you, again, Oregonism.

I grow outdoor in pots, good quality bag potting soil. Watering as needed, every third day or so depending on weather. I let top two inches dry out before watering again. I have a moisture/ PH probe that many on this forum use, but no way of testing the tap water I use (after letting sit for 24 hours).

The one caveat I should add is that I use small pots (5 Gal.) which is small for the size of the plants (grown from seed). I do this on purpose to keep them somewhat small (Tom Hill would cringe at the thought ) as this is a patio grow where discretion and stealth are paramount.

Much appreciation for all the masters' input.

Peace.

 

[Ghabi]

[quote= It would be nice to check your pH if you could, even pH strips would suffice.

By that you mean PH testing the water..?

 

[Dkgrower]

if u make a proper Organic fertilizer u will often see that it has a acid pH value.. the stuff i make from pigion shit has a pH off 5

@Ghabi u need to use dolomit to make a higher pH or wood ash that will also add some P and K, where the dolomit give some Mg...

U can also try and test your soil pH value


I use both....

 

[Ghabi]

if u make a proper Organic fertilizer u will often see that it has a acid pH value.. the stuff i make from pigion shit has a pH off 5

@Ghabi u need to use dolomit to make a higher pH or wood ash that will also add some P and K, where the dolomit give some Mg...

U can also try and test your soil pH value

I use both....

Thank you DKgrower, I agree with the fert observation, that's why I stated that I only fert 'upon request" of the plant, not a regular feeding.

The only dolomite lime I have available in my locale is coarse (not powdery) and does not desolve in water. I have applied it to the top two inches of the soil (in containers), but do not anticipate any timely results.

My soil PH starts off (straight from bag) at 6.5 +/- .2, then in some (not all) containers after a few weeks in vegging, it drifts down to the low 5's..!? The PH probe I have is for soil, not water. Maybe I should get one of those fish tank test strips to test the tap water I use.

 

[Scrappy4]

For down, I would use as suggested citric acid. If you put a tsp or two in a squirt top water bottle, shake it up and use it at a squirt at a time until you are in the range you want. The FPE's i have made turn out low ph too, if that floats your properly ph'd boat.

For an up, most calcium sources could work and our plants need cal anyway, and thankfully cal is easy to find. Chicken scratch, egg shells, crab shells all have cal and crab shells break down fairly fast. Most of the botanical inputs we talk about here have high cal levels too, and break down fast. So if you use more than one cal source you can get different break down rates and different benefits from a diverse amendment mix, and oh ya, the ph thingy......scrappy

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

The water I use is 7.8 - 8.3. A properly mixed soil does NOT need you to adjust the pH. I haven't owned a pH meter in years.

Dumping baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and epsom salts on your plants will negatively impact microlife.

 

[Gascanastan]

The water I use is 7.8 - 8.3. A properly mixed soil does NOT need you to adjust the pH. I haven't owned a pH meter in years.

Dumping baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and epsom salts on your plants will negatively impact microlife.

Build a proper soil and you can pretty much count on that....I haven't used a ph meter in..yep...years.

 

[Granger2]

I agree with Gas and Thug. If your plants are doing well, why burden yourself with all the pH troubles. I would NOT use baking soda because of the sodium. If you are determined to use something,Potassium bicarbonate would be preferable, but it will mess with the microherd. So will sulfur.
For down, I'd use either Apple Cider Vinegar w/ live "mother" or Citric Acid.

A good organic soil outdoors [w/healthy microherd] seldom needs pH adjustment. Peat can keep the pH low. Amend with compost, EWC instead. Good luck. -granger

 

[Oregonism]

Ok, slow down all, I should have put this into the outdoor forum. I am not advocating "dumping" baking soda onto the wee girls. If you would have read, 1 tbsp per gallon hardly affects most plants at that concentration. We were just acknowledging that we have heard of the method. More of an absolute emergency in my book if at all.

And Thug, great tidbit, good soil tends to stabilize itself, but I guess I am after guerrilla sources, something new, not usually used or underused. I can't drag 30 bags of soil out into the woods, that's loco. Especially when most things are at your fingertips. I use a sawdust, horseshit, mulched weeds, nettle extract and nettle mulch mixture to prep most of my od holes.
Now the water situation has to be monitored and I fear it will go 9+pH as the August + Semptember temps start to kick up. Maybe a sand filter for the water, before I water the girls?

Most methods have been covered and citric acid is great, but I am out in the woods not in the urban environment too often to visit the brewshop.

Other organic materials less commonly used?

Lime juice?

 

[Gascanastan]

....well then...why not make a tea with REGULAR ol peat moss...the ph should be around 4.0..water with that for a nice and acidic solution.
By no means is any of this a cure....
....you can have a nice well balanced outdoor organic soil easier than an indoor one.

Top dress with a HIGH quality compost or PURE EWC and your problems will diminish or entirely go away.

 

[Oregonism]

....well then...why not make a tea with REGULAR ol peat moss...the ph should be around 4.0..water with that for a nice and acidic solution.
By no means is any of this a cure....
....you can have a nice well balanced outdoor organic soil easier than an indoor one.

Top dress with a HIGH quality compost or PURE EWC and your problems will diminish or entirely go away.

Sure if you have some experience or citation about it being effective, sounds like it has potential.

 

[Gascanastan]

...well EWC/Compost topdressing works...ask anyone here that's been here for a while.
...as for the peat....we use it in our soil mixes right?...and then water our plants....of course this is peat AFTER adjusting with liming agents....which brings it up into the usable range for a soil medium.

 

[Oregonism]

...well EWC/Compost topdressing works...ask anyone here that's been here for a while.
...as for the peat....we use it in our soil mixes right?...and then water our plants....of course this is peat AFTER adjusting with liming agents....which brings it up into the usable range for a soil medium.

You have good points Gasistan, I like the worms and you actually gave me an idea for ground bin to make castings on small scale that fits what I need, thanks! I haven't gotten to worms yet, but I think now is the time.

I am going to soak and def measure and compare a few things, pH, ec and Redox potential.

Still though, some are missing the point of this thread, EWC has been done before, everyone in the "know" is familiar with it, I am still looking for FRINGE techniques, maybe that is the best descriptor...EWC is a great technique, but still looking for others.

Still think I am going to do a berry extraction and add terponoids and saponins to my water, I think the girls might like it, save that it stays a tad below neutral.

 

[yesum]

For ph up I think you want baking powder and not baking soda cause of the salt in it. For down I use lemon juice, works great.

I do not agree on using organic soil and not needing to ph the water. I have water over 8 ph and had some shitty grows before phing the water. If they are not related well then... I think it was though and adding a little lemon juice to the water is not that tough.