Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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eL artist
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yep but in my case i am flowering in 2 rooms set 30 days apart so i cant veg longer cause i have 30 days to go from taking cut to going into flowering and then process starts all over for next room, i cant veg for both rooms at the same time in my veg room only one at a time, so i cant add any time to my cycle of clone/veg/flo or i will disrupt cycle, like i said this technique makes great girls just is not for me, but glad this is here for ppl this does work for, cause you cant argue w/ results
I like this technique for certain applications, but I really wish people would stop claiming that so and so got 2.5 grams per watt or better. It's hard to believe for starters, but it also side-tracks the issue with arguments about wild claims. I've seen some good results here, but I've also seen hundreds of pages and relatively small numbers of amazing pictures. Clearly there's some who can make this work, but clearly a lot of people are too obsessed with it.
There's been an attempt to keep the science in here the major issue, but some folks keep fighting in here no matter what. This technique is not an earth-shaker. It does certain things well, if you need those things. I don't see people fighting like this over LST or topping. It's basically just another topping technique.
There's been an attempt to keep the science in here the major issue, but some folks keep fighting in here no matter what. This technique is not an earth-shaker. It does certain things well, if you need those things. I don't see people fighting like this over LST or topping. It's basically just another topping technique.
Good discussion fellas. Sometimes I think we get wrapped up thinking that cannabis is so special that it isn't a plant like the rest, when it is. Pruning is used to increase yields in all sorts of plants. It's a controversial subject here like other forms of training in large part because it is so difficult to describe and quantify what is done to the plants in words and numbers.
I'm always reminding myself that nature isn't always perfect as we can create things for ourselves, but defoliating seems to be a way of helping what a plant wants to do anyway. I've often grown plants in very low humidity and high temperatures and have observed how the plant seems to prioritize newer growth. In such conditions, the plants are forced to pull water from the roots and transpire; so perhaps the shedding of the foliage is a self-regulating balancing act. Plants seem to have a lot of functions that adapt to how much water they get and how they use it. So, maybe defoliating wouldn't help if someone who already has temperatures and humidity at a comfortable level for the plants. Or if they have a plant with a small root mass that is just barely able to meet the transpiration demand. Anyway, I didn't really understand defoliating (maybe I still don't) until I understood VPD and how it influences the behavior of a plant.
I'm always reminding myself that nature isn't always perfect as we can create things for ourselves, but defoliating seems to be a way of helping what a plant wants to do anyway. I've often grown plants in very low humidity and high temperatures and have observed how the plant seems to prioritize newer growth. In such conditions, the plants are forced to pull water from the roots and transpire; so perhaps the shedding of the foliage is a self-regulating balancing act. Plants seem to have a lot of functions that adapt to how much water they get and how they use it. So, maybe defoliating wouldn't help if someone who already has temperatures and humidity at a comfortable level for the plants. Or if they have a plant with a small root mass that is just barely able to meet the transpiration demand. Anyway, I didn't really understand defoliating (maybe I still don't) until I understood VPD and how it influences the behavior of a plant.
yep but in my case i am flowering in 2 rooms set 30 days apart so i cant veg longer cause i have 30 days to go from taking cut to going into flowering and then process starts all over for next room, i cant veg for both rooms at the same time in my veg room only one at a time, so i cant add any time to my cycle of clone/veg/flo or i will disrupt cycle, like i said this technique makes great girls just is not for me, but glad this is here for ppl this does work for, cause you cant argue w/ results
ahh but wait. k33f does mention it's a 1 time delay. I know you're not flowering to harvest in 30 days. But you're timing your veg, so you can flip after the 30 days because you harvested your 7-10 (or whatever) week strain.
In this scenario, what k33f has stated is you start your veg accordingly earlier to allow for defoliation timing, so it is ready when you harvest the other room. Then you flip. There was no actual delay in harvesting.
However, this does mean starting the next veg (clones most likely) a couple weeks earlier and before the current veg goes into the flower room. In other words, you kinda have 2.5 grows going.
For me, I'm on a more or less wait two weeks after moving to flower, start a veg type cycle. But then I'm on a 8-9 week schedule too.
I do understand where you're coming from (after a 2nd read). And it does require some seemingly major adjustment to fit into your schedule. But k33f's point was making the adjustment the 1st time, makes everything after that insignificant.
agoutihead
Member
Things have been rolling pretty smoothly, we're at day 21 of flower & things are looking great.
But all of the plants are still pretty short. I was expecting a bigger stretch over the last 3 weeks when I flipped to flower. I'd say no plant is taller than 3'.
Are the plants not able to do a proper stretch during these 3 weeks because they're trying to bud & also regrow solar leaves?
They're really bushy again & I really want to defoliate again because I know all of the bud sites are covered up. It actually bothers me seeing a bushy plant lol. To me defoliation makes sense. You can just see how much more light the bud sites are getting when the're totally stripped down.
Should I defoliate again tonight or let them stretch some more? (I'm thinking yet to defoil, it's been 3 weeks since I flipped to 12/12 & I think 4 weeks since I last defoliated.
But all of the plants are still pretty short. I was expecting a bigger stretch over the last 3 weeks when I flipped to flower. I'd say no plant is taller than 3'.
Are the plants not able to do a proper stretch during these 3 weeks because they're trying to bud & also regrow solar leaves?
They're really bushy again & I really want to defoliate again because I know all of the bud sites are covered up. It actually bothers me seeing a bushy plant lol. To me defoliation makes sense. You can just see how much more light the bud sites are getting when the're totally stripped down.
Should I defoliate again tonight or let them stretch some more? (I'm thinking yet to defoil, it's been 3 weeks since I flipped to 12/12 & I think 4 weeks since I last defoliated.
D
disciple
I'm curious if anyone knows if plant hormones effecting the rate of growth (and vise-versa) influence actual elongation of limbs(spacing between nodes.) I can't help but believe I've observed that slower growing plants (from say low light, low temps, fed less, etc) have noticeably shorter distances between nodes. Lots of people seem to think that spectrum of light color has an influence on the spacing and perhaps HPS is said to cause more space is simply because they have more to offer to an indoor plant. Thus faster growth and maybe consequently further spaced nodes.
A grower does have more time to make light adjusts to a slower growing plant, but again just self-evident to myself, I pay far less attention to plants under CFLs than I do to anything under a HPS. I'm sure someone is thinking who would want a slower plant anyway. I haven't seen anyone partaking in this conversation running hundreds of tiny SOG 40 day strain plants fed areoponically around vertical lights. Although that is the ideal solution to anyone obsessed with time and results, it isn't a practical solution for many. It may be that defoliation delays the maturity of a plant, but it is a practical way to help growers make better use of their light by having more bud sites exposed to optimal light. This would explain why growers making good use of their light with SCROG seem to be arguing against the need to defoliate in this thread in contrast to vertical bulb growers. Anyway, a cost-benefit analysis could be done in which the benefit could be worth more than the cost. If ya yielded 1gpw with a 1K with a 60 day flowering period ya got about 17g per day. If defoliating delays things a week (g per day lowers about 11% if the yield is unaffected by defoliating) while increasing yield 120g more at harvest, the week was paid for and ya broke even (minus the undefinable labor expense;which is offset by labor saved from less frequent harvests.) Now if defoliating resulted in say three times more yield at harvest at 360g, even with taking into account the expense of the extra week, ya went from 17g per day to 21, almost 25% increase in g per day. Sure ya get a faster return on an initial investment if the results are the same and the time period is shorter, but ignoring any initial losses the technique would theoretically have merit as a high yielding technique. Maybe some of ya got strains that grow perfectly without any training at all. Maybe ya would be more helpful spreadin some cuts, but not everyone would want them for many reasons anyway.
A grower does have more time to make light adjusts to a slower growing plant, but again just self-evident to myself, I pay far less attention to plants under CFLs than I do to anything under a HPS. I'm sure someone is thinking who would want a slower plant anyway. I haven't seen anyone partaking in this conversation running hundreds of tiny SOG 40 day strain plants fed areoponically around vertical lights. Although that is the ideal solution to anyone obsessed with time and results, it isn't a practical solution for many. It may be that defoliation delays the maturity of a plant, but it is a practical way to help growers make better use of their light by having more bud sites exposed to optimal light. This would explain why growers making good use of their light with SCROG seem to be arguing against the need to defoliate in this thread in contrast to vertical bulb growers. Anyway, a cost-benefit analysis could be done in which the benefit could be worth more than the cost. If ya yielded 1gpw with a 1K with a 60 day flowering period ya got about 17g per day. If defoliating delays things a week (g per day lowers about 11% if the yield is unaffected by defoliating) while increasing yield 120g more at harvest, the week was paid for and ya broke even (minus the undefinable labor expense;which is offset by labor saved from less frequent harvests.) Now if defoliating resulted in say three times more yield at harvest at 360g, even with taking into account the expense of the extra week, ya went from 17g per day to 21, almost 25% increase in g per day. Sure ya get a faster return on an initial investment if the results are the same and the time period is shorter, but ignoring any initial losses the technique would theoretically have merit as a high yielding technique. Maybe some of ya got strains that grow perfectly without any training at all. Maybe ya would be more helpful spreadin some cuts, but not everyone would want them for many reasons anyway.
1 week ago...
17 posts and 7 days later...
given the fact you have never even tried defoliating and have no *hands on*experience what so ever with it,....
but still try to protect us from ourselves and tell us you know whats best for us??
AND
you can't even follow though with what you say you'll do and you expect others to take you seriously?
you have a bright future with the US Govt. kiddo
this is a great thread and on top of what I just posted I suggest anybody that doesn't want to see it closed stop conversing with this a person that has no desire to debate, only argue and wants to see this thread closed
and whose posts in this thread just gave him most if his 50 post count IC privleges.
17 posts and 7 days later...
given the fact you have never even tried defoliating and have no *hands on*experience what so ever with it,....
but still try to protect us from ourselves and tell us you know whats best for us??
AND
you can't even follow though with what you say you'll do and you expect others to take you seriously?
you have a bright future with the US Govt. kiddo
this is a great thread and on top of what I just posted I suggest anybody that doesn't want to see it closed stop conversing with this a person that has no desire to debate, only argue and wants to see this thread closed
and whose posts in this thread just gave him most if his 50 post count IC privleges.
Last edited:
paperchaser825
Active member
Posted these in my thread but figured they could be posted here as well.
This was taken right after defoliating for about the third time. 15 days into flower.
This was taken right after defoliating for about the third time. 15 days into flower.
Did you hit them at 15 days because you wanted to stop stretch there? Generally speaking, that's a bit early but can be useful to stop stretch if needed.
They look good. Looks like they might enjoy a bit more widening but you may also need to bend the main branch hard because they are a fair bit ahead of the side branches in height.
Sometimes hard to tell from pics.
paperchaser825
Active member
Indeed. The cab was a jungle before this and was certainly reaching for my cooltube which is mounted almost at it's highest point at the moment. I wish I had taken a picture before doing this, as the canopy on top was so thick (like that of a scrog) that there was almost zero penetration. Plenty of penetration now!
We are gonna work on the pics too. Soon as this run is done I think we are going to look for some lenses.
Indeed. The cab was a jungle before this and was certainly reaching for my cooltube which is mounted almost at it's highest point at the moment. I wish I had taken a picture before doing this, as the canopy on top was so thick (like that of a scrog) that there was almost zero penetration. Plenty of penetration now!
Good decision then indeed. I had to hit mine at day 19 or 20. They were stretching so hard still and I was at max height. After a few more days I started bending the shit out of them. 90 degree supercrops. Got the canopy fairly even now. And it's just buds everywhere.
grassott's dad
Member
Hi all. Here's a section of my friend's garden. Defoliated twice in veg, then straight after the stretch (about 2 or 3 weeks 12/12) and again last week.
Now in 7 weeks 12/12...
Now in 7 weeks 12/12...
Has there been any side by side tests done yet? If so, link me
Have you read the PDF? If so you would know why this isnt possible for 90% of us.
Hell, I'm just wondering how much if any you really have read?
Personally, I read every single page during a 3 week period, up to something like page 190 at the time, before I started planning to do this let alone actually doing it.
Nice job!
agoutihead
Member
It took me about 1 hour per plant at this point to totally defoliate and my plants are only about 30" tall for some stupid reason (I think I Topped too early?) I sure hope all of the time was worth it. To me it does make sense, all the bud sites are getting BLASTED with light now.
Not the best pics, but I've attached a couple of after shots.
You can see the 2nd pic how transparent the plants have become with my vertical bulb setup.
Not the best pics, but I've attached a couple of after shots.
You can see the 2nd pic how transparent the plants have become with my vertical bulb setup.
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