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Legal grow states are not setting good examples!!!

rives

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Rives, altho we are on the same side of many debates, especially the Prop 19 Fiasco...I have to strongly disagree with you on this one--

The first 6 words, do not negate, nor do they conflict with the last 9--
It is a fact that cannabis helps with a wide variety of issues...some of them, ppl don't even realize they are "Medicating"!!

kmk, legislation is written with what is considered to be the most important, specific information first, and then is followed up with the broad strokes. At the time that the prop was presented, conservative voters who feared opening the floodgates to the demon weed were told that the last nine words were to avoid a laundry list of ailments for which it might help, or be found to help in the future. Do you really believe that it would have passed at the time if the voting majority had envisioned what would happen a decade and a half later? People on our side of the equation certainly hoped that it would lead to a loosening of regulation, and hopefully at some point in the dim and distant future, perhaps legalization, but I don't think that anyone dreamed the current situation would develop.

Regardless of your analysis of the support level amongst the American public, people are currently losing access at a phenomenal rate. Virtually every county in California has reeled back the limits on where cultivation can take place, plant numbers, canopy size, etc, etc. They have almost universally slammed the doors shut on dispensaries. If I recall your stance correctly from the Prop 19 debates, we both predicted this would happen as a result of the inevitable swing of the pendulum. As I have stated throughout, I don't give a damn about anyone using mj - the more the merrier as far as I am concerned. What I do find troubling is that the very people for whom the law was really intended are the ones who are being impacted the most by this tightening of the regulations.
 

supermanlives

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i think everyone should come to cali . you can prob get an extra rec for your dog too. overgrow,oversmoke,overwhelm. theres power in numbers still
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
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overgrow,oversmoke,overwhelm.

Should be a fucking shirt!! Lol!!
I truly believe that all press is good press, and that all the attention MMJ has been getting, has forwarded the Movement by Leaps and Bounds...by desensitizing John Q Public from the bullshit they have grown up with, listening to the Gub'ment!!
Ppl who are severely sick, as I have found by working for a Collective...are Generally taken care of-- I'm sure there are exceptions, but my guy, who recently died from complications from MS....hasn't paid for weed from me in 4 years-- Our Collective makes massive exceptions for Serious or Terminal Patients--
Oh, and I "Sling" too!! But I still will support any bid for Legalization!!
 
S

SeaMaiden

Rives, altho we are on the same side of many debates, especially the Prop 19 Fiasco...I have to strongly disagree with you on this one--



The first 6 words, do not negate, nor do they conflict with the last 9--
It is a fact that cannabis helps with a wide variety of issues...some of them, ppl don't even realize they are "Medicating"!!
<snipped></snipped>
And as far as "making us all look bad"...I have to bring up the point that even with the abuse of the system going on, there is still 75% of the American Public that support it!!
So yes, I will have to agree, that the Fed's "Potaganda", is in fact incorrect, and the vast majority of not only Californians...but of Americans...still support MMJ!! :smoweed:
First, since I can't hit you with the rep button, I want to say thank you for making a point that I'd missed. It's not good to pick and choose sections of a law to suit your argument, it can negate the argument.


Second, I need to make an observation as a long-time California resident, and that is that as a RESIDENT, I resent others trying to tell us how we should be acting, voting, and operating in our state. Get shit done in YOUR state, k?

I honestly don't think I've ever read others telling people in pretty much any other state to do things a certain way so it will please them or possibly not affect them. I've never once told someone in another state how they should be voting on a state issue, why on earth do they think it's ok to tell me how to vote on a state issue?

Yeah... I've been sitting here wracking my brain trying to remember if I've ever done anything similar, and I haven't. Not even when states like Arizona pass their atrocious immigration laws. Or when they pass laws that impinge on a woman's right to choose whether or not she'll carry that fetus to term. Or if they allow some gigantic corporation to take land from landowners to pass their oil or gas pipeline through eminent domain, I say nothing, though I shake my head and tut-tut them, I see it's a shame (a sham?). These are but a few examples.

And so now we have people telling us, literally, how to handle *our* MMJ scene, because their state might not like it and do something that they don't like. As though they don't have a head and eyes and hands and feet, just like people in California, to do something with like make positive changes.

How many people here have canvassed a neighborhood to get signatures for something? I have, and it's hard work, it can get embarrassing, it can get sticky, but it can also get shit DONE. Last time I did it, I helped get the residents of the city I was living in on board with a plan to purchase a large tract of land in order to keep it as greenway in perpetuity (migratory route, pathway for larger animals to get from this one little area in SoCal to the San Berdoo mountains). It might not have seen success, but by the sweat of our brows and the wit in our brains, we did it. The measure required additional city taxes, in a *very*Republican neighborhood, but we managed to get our neighbors to see the real value and the majority agreed. We got it onto our ballot, it was voted on, and it passed.


So instead of bitching about how we do it out here, how about you make something useful out of that energy, something positive?
 
Rives- Who's side are you on?? How are you a "mentor" on this site?? Why are you so rude??

You sir, are a hypocrite plain and simple. You stated that you were in the illegal cannabis trade for nearly 40 years.

Since then, you have acquired a med card and have determined that you are one of the few med users that actually need it.

Everyone other than yourself only has the card for recreational purposes (according to you) and your pissed of because they're putting your legal protections at risk.

Maybe the State of California should put you Mr. Rives in charge of determining who should qualify for a med card and who should not. You seem to have a firm grip on why people voted for 215 in the first place....and this is not what they wanted...blah blah blah.

If the people who voted for 215 are so disappointed, why has that not been overturned (by the will of the people of course) in the 16 years it has been enacted?

Not expecting an answer from you Mr. Rives, as you haven't answered one of my questions yet??

Mr. Rives you should be a politician.

Rocky

Edit: Sea Maiden, I live in Montana, our legislators went against the will of the people and overturned our MMJ laws. I collected more signatures than anyone else in MT, and we the people will have an opportunity, once again, to vote in a reasonable MMJ law.
 

Maj.Cottonmouth

We are Farmers
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IMO Cannabis is the only Drug that can make big Pharma sweat bullets at how much money they would lose if it was legalized. Until that 1% is told there profits wont be lost do to cannabis being legalized it wont happen. We just dont have the connections and money to put up a fight. Normal is worthless. They need to get some organization going. Get events scheduled bring in lots of Dollars. Put the truth in adds everywhere TV,Radio,Magazines.

I honestly don't think Pharma is sweating, I think they are chomping at the bit. Think of how many compounds they could patent and make pill versions of it and we all know how much we Americans like our pills and no dope head stigma.
 

rives

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Rives- Who's side are you on?? How are you a "mentor" on this site?? Why are you so rude??

You sir, are a hypocrite plain and simple. You stated that you were in the illegal cannabis trade for nearly 40 years.

Since then, you have acquired a med card and have determined that you are one of the few med users that actually need it.

Everyone other than yourself only has the card for recreational purposes (according to you) and your pissed of because they're putting your legal protections at risk.

Maybe the State of California should put you Mr. Rives in charge of determining who should qualify for a med card and who should not. You seem to have a firm grip on why people voted for 215 in the first place....and this is not what they wanted...blah blah blah.

If the people who voted for 215 are so disappointed, why has that not been overturned (by the will of the people of course) in the 16 years it has been enacted?

Not expecting an answer from you Mr. Rives, as you haven't answered one of my questions yet??

Mr. Rives you should be a politician.

Rocky

Edit: Sea Maiden, I live in Montana, our legislators went against the will of the people and overturned our MMJ laws. I collected more signatures than anyone else in MT, and we the people will have an opportunity, once again, to vote in a reasonable MMJ law.


Well, let's take this item by item. As I've explained repeatedly, I'm all for legalization as well as anybody using mj for whatever purpose they desire. My issue is with the epidemic of people who use mj recreationally under the color of medical usage. Even that wouldn't bother me if not for the fact that, as with any rule that is frequently taken advantage of, it inevitably results in the rule being changed. In fact, this laxity has had the positive impact of getting more people to understand exactly how benign, yet helpful, mj is. However, it is now impacting the people for whom the legislation was originally targeted, and laws are being changed resulting in impeding their access.

I am a mentor on this site because I spend a great deal of time helping people with their electrical questions, but that doesn't keep me from speaking my mind. I don't believe that I have been rude, and if my tone has headed in that direction it is only because I have replied in kind. You are apparently offended by me calling bullshit after you didn't like my quoting Prop 215, and then you told the people who disagree with your stance "FUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE ON", amongst numerous other bon mots. Who is being rude here?

No, I am not being hypocritical. I said that I had been on the illegal side, meaning that I didn't have a medical card until that point. I have never been in the canna trade. If you look back a post #30, I explained why I got a card. No, I'm not pissed about any potential abridgment of my legal protections. I was doing this for years before I had any protection, and would continue to do so. In fact, I never would have gotten involved with a med card except for the fact that I take morphine and would have had it cut off if I had tested positive for mj and not had a card (as previously explained).

I think that I have a pretty good handle on the motivation toward passing 215 because I not only voted on it, but worked towards it's passage. I think that if you look back through the posts and read them, you will find that I've answered every question that you have asked me. If not, I missed it - pose it again and I'll be happy to answer you. However, unlike a politician, you will get exactly what I think. :tiphat:
 
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stasis

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Almost NONE of the "Card-holding" MMJ "Patients" in Michigan that I know of are terminally ill...

Same deal as California... Look around. You'll see. No one asked me for medical records when I applied for a Card in MI.

If more Michiganders had the skills (Which more of them will someday - it's called a 'learning curve.'), they would blow-it-up in the grows as much as anyone else... Those I know who can, DO.

Spidermites, and other pests/diseases keep the gardens in check over there. I was sort of an inspector for various people in their grows, and I rarely saw a healthy room.

I knew one Dispensary Owner in Oakland County, Michigan (now shut), who took a whole room of mite-infested, mildewed plants at least 10 days early. And after a minor trim - he placed all the flowers in a Food Dehydrator for 2 hours. Then directly to the Display case for his "Medical Patients."

Sounds outlandish, but I saw it.. He didn't want me to see him do it, because he was embarassed, knowing that I was aghast. Money was his main goal...

Lively thread.. Hijacked by an opinionated typist. Basically, envy by any other name. Nothing new..
 

MIway

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kmk, legislation is written with what is considered to be the most important, specific information first, and then is followed up with the broad strokes.

At the time that the prop was presented, conservative voters who feared opening the floodgates to the demon weed were told that the last nine words were to avoid a laundry list of ailments for which it might help, or be found to help in the future. Do you really believe that it would have passed at the time if the voting majority had envisioned what would happen a decade and a half later?

People on our side of the equation certainly hoped that it would lead to a loosening of regulation, and hopefully at some point in the dim and distant future, perhaps legalization, but I don't think that anyone dreamed the current situation would develop.
.

Think that's the crux of it rives... U believe the intent of the law was just to protect 'legitimate' medical conditions... As defined by which authority?

Here's the real deal tho... Those that put these laws together (just a couple handful of peeps/groups)... They write it based upon what they feel they can get passed. Goes to u'r second point... What will we be able to get thru those conservative voters and have mass appeal?

They start w their own grand ideas of what they would like to see (and how they can stake out an interest)... And whiddle it down to what they think they can get away with. And that's the real origin of these laws... All of the medi states.

Not so righteous eh? And the 'patients' w legitimate medical need... The vehicle for mass appeal. And it happens to be truthful... The benefits... So that's just great... They can speak w even more fervor. This is where many buy into the idea and vote in favor.

But 'they' always start w personal agendas, and write to stake out and protect... And it certainly does involve profit incentive and ownership rights and exclusivity... To monitize and legtimize. Those are the visionaries that create the rhetoric of medical.
 

rives

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Think that's the crux of it rives... U believe the intent of the law was just to protect 'legitimate' medical conditions... As defined by which authority?

As defined by the prop, MIway - seriously ill Californians. Other states, from what I understand, have tried to avoid California's "mistake" by strictly delineating the conditions that people suffer from in order to "become legal". It then becomes a nightmare for others who suffer from an ailment that could be helped by mmj, but for whatever reason didn't make it on the list initially.

At the time that 215 went through, I thought it was the most astounding, compassionate and caring gesture by California voters that I had ever heard of. The aids epidemic had become terrifying to the majority of voters because it had jumped from almost exclusively the gay population to straights and unfortunates who received tainted transfusions. Most people knew someone who had been affected, and there were no effective treatments - only a handful of things to ease the way. All of this 20/20 hindsight wasn't even a glimmer - as I said before, many of us who had enjoyed pot over the years hoped that 215 might eventually help legitimize mj, but no one had a clue where it was going.

I've said repeatedly that the loosening of the interpretation has been a wonderful thing for the "movement". Unfortunately, public sentiment, at least in my corner of NorCal, started swinging against us a couple of years ago and after we missed the opportunity with 19, has been gathering momentum. We have communities that have imposed zoning that completely disallows indoor grows and drastically limits the outdoor ones, even to the point that they are in obvious and blatant conflict with 215. It isn't casual users or recreational folks that are paying the price for this - the shit always has been and will be available if you know where to look and the penalties for possession of limited quantities are now the lowest that they have ever been. The people that are losing out are the old, the infirm, and the unconnected. MMJ has gone from compassionate to selfish.
 

Hammerhead

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I honestly don't think Pharma is sweating, I think they are chomping at the bit. Think of how many compounds they could patent and make pill versions of it and we all know how much we Americans like our pills and no dope head stigma.

If cannabis was made Legal they would lose billions in profits from the products cannabis would replace. They would need to have cannabis replacement products ready to hit the market. Since its federally Illegal they have not been allowed to do any testing to get these products ready and tested in time so they say..I would not be surprised if they have been testing products made with cannabis for years in secret.. Until it gets changed from Schedule 1 not much can happen..
 
S

SeaMaiden

I honestly don't think Pharma is sweating, I think they are chomping at the bit. Think of how many compounds they could patent and make pill versions of it and we all know how much we Americans like our pills and no dope head stigma.
Damn straight they're chomping at the bit. And the uni in Mississippi isn't going to be able to provide enough product for their needs. Afghanistan can, however.
If cannabis was made Legal they would lose billions in profits from the products cannabis would replace. They would need to have cannabis replacement products ready to hit the market. Since its federally Illegal they have not been allowed to do any testing to get these products ready and tested in time so they say..I would not be surprised if they have been testing products made with cannabis for years in secret.. Until it gets changed from Schedule 1 not much can happen..
I disagree. Big pharma will get it rescheduled just in time for their new release of drugs.

Folks, if you don't believe that the pharmaceutical industry has an inkling of the potential in cannabis, read this and see if you don't change your minds.

The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy
 
After 16 years why haven't the voters of California overturned prop 215 if it is so flawed anyone can get a card?

Why have 16 other states followed California by implementing some type of MMJ program in their respective states?

Why is popular support for the legalization of cannabis at an all time high??

Mr. Rives, I apologize. I am rude and an asshole. I am also very passionate about the cause. I have to admit my situation is much different than that of California. I've seen exactly what bending the law created in Montana...our law which was approved by 62% of voter was overturned by our state legislators at exactly the same time the Feds decided to show up and take down all the big boys that were packing their shelves with Cali outdoor.

That being said, the premise of this thread is that anyone who manufactures, sells, or smokes cannabis without being in compliance with MMJ laws is a lesser human being than those people who can afford to be in compliance with a MMJ law.

I don't think I need to explain why this is a falsehood.

Peace
Rocky
 

Hammerhead

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Thats whats great we can just agree to disagree. Its all speculation with no facts to back up iether of our opinions. I will stick with my outlook on the subject. Big Pharma will not get anything rescheduled. They will keep making billions off of there current lines of drugs. They dont wont it legal. If anyone gets it moving it would be congress. For any real testing to begin it needs to reclassified. If Big Pharma came out with products at the right time they would have to be testing it illegally I dont think they would admit to doing that imho... :) They might be doing some research they dont want anyone to know about that cant go public.
 
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stasis

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Hi. here's something you Love, are passionate about, and believe has medical value to those who truly need that. Physically or Mentally. You grow really good medicine, maintain a Clone-area, Veg area, Mother Plants, and a Flower room. All the time vigilant against Pests of all sorts. You spend too much time at home, but security is very important to you. perhaps even limiting your Social Interactions..

You recognize and choose hi-quality strains. You do not cut corners. You occasionally travel to compare notes with people from all over. You order seed packs and ponderously search for new and exciting phenotypes with high medicinal value, to help with occasional depression. Even though that same space could be used to fill with ......

You could grow out the latest Blue Dream High Yielder...
Your time could be spent growing Commercial-Grade and in larger numbers,
but you choose to maximize as much as possible with "Connoisseur Quality."

Now, you will receive ABSOLUTELY NOTHING EXTRA - or at all - for your attention to detail, extra time and money spent to produce superior Meds... Because people like Mr. Rives are Aghast at the renumeration part.

And some Tool of a Politician has stated that they do not want to make the California Mistake as an excuse to not have to allow Medical Marijuana in their State.... To Applause of the Sheeple gathered.

Everyone else with Skills gets paid, from the Architect to the Zoologist, The Cheesemaker and the Winemaker - so why not a Boutique Grower..?

It's Either Us or Phillip Morris who by the way, has the patent on the name "MARLEY," for a pack of joints, presumably...
 

Hammerhead

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everyone is entitled to there opinion weather you like it or not. There's absolutely no need to try and cause a argument because you dont agree. Instead of trying to make people mad just agree to disagree and move on. We dont need to start poking ea other with a stick to see what happens.
 

rives

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Mr. Rives, I apologize. I am rude and an asshole. I am also very passionate about the cause. I have to admit my situation is much different than that of California. I've seen exactly what bending the law created in Montana...our law which was approved by 62% of voter was overturned by our state legislators at exactly the same time the Feds decided to show up and take down all the big boys that were packing their shelves with Cali outdoor.

No sweat Rocky. I certainly understand being passionate about the cause, and I'm sure that we agree on far more things than not.


Now, you will receive ABSOLUTELY NOTHING EXTRA - or at all - for your attention to detail, extra time and money spent to produce superior Meds... Because people like Mr. Rives are Aghast at the renumeration part.

If you can find anywhere in here where I have mentioned remuneration, I would really like to see it.
 
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