MH conversion bulb + Digital Greenhouse ballast = tripped GFCI outlet?

[Guest 18340]

Ok, here's the scenario. A friend gave me a brand new 1000w Digital Greenhouse ballast, HTG supplies brand digital ballast. (He gave it to me cause he was downgrading to 600w)
Been using it for about a month with Sunmaster HPS bulb no problem.
When I screwed in a MH conversion bulb (Sunmaster) the GFCI outlet trips when the ballast tries to first fire the bulb.
I have them on timers but it happens whether timer controlled or manually plugged in.
I swapped in an analog hps ballast and the GFCI outlet is fine. So, what do you guys think is causing this? Is their something about the way a digital ballast strikes an MH conversion bulb that trips the GFCI? Or possibly a ballast defect?

 

[SeaMaiden]

Don't MH bulbs require a different voltage or... crap, I can't remember the term, but it has to do with the firing up stuff, and it's different entirely from an HPS. I'm thinking it's causing a spike that the circuit interrupter doesn't like.

Have you tried a different MH bulb, and/or a different outlet?

 

[Guest 18340]

Don't MH bulbs require a different voltage or... crap, I can't remember the term, but it has to do with the firing up stuff, and it's different entirely from an HPS. I'm thinking it's causing a spike that the circuit interrupter doesn't like.

Have you tried a different MH bulb, and/or a different outlet?

Thats what I was wondering, if the ballast is striking the MH bulb differently from an HPS and causing enough of a spike to trip the gfci.
I tried it on another gfci outlet and the same thing happened. Even with a different bulb (same brand though).
It's been a bad month for me I swear. First, rotator cuff surgery, then thrips an spidermites invaded and now equipment is failing.

 

[cravin morehead]

quick question, why are you using a 'conversion bulb'?? digital ballasts run both hps and mh lamps (bulbs). found this on-line for you:

'High intensity discharge conversion bulbs are system specific. Sodium conversion bulbs are designed to be used in metal halide or mercury vapour fixtures only. Halide conversion bulbs are designed to be used in high pressure sodium fixtures only. '

 

[Guest 18340]

Well, it's a digital ballast so it's supposed to fire MH and/or hps.
The shop I go to only carries MH conversion bulbs, not regular MH's.
(When I use the MH conversion in my magnetic switchable ballast I have to leave the switch on "HPS". It won't fire if switched to "MH".)
So you thinks it's because it's a conversion bulb that the digi ballast is acting up?

 

[rives]

Have you tried it on a non-GFCI circuit to see if the breaker trips? Also, did you try the original HPS lamp to see if the ballast developed a ground fault? I don't know about the Sunmaster lamps but the Philips CMH lamps are supposed to run exclusively on magnetic ballasts, with a single exception. The high frequency of the electronic ballasts destroys the lamps prematurely, but I don't see how that would trip a GFCI on start-up. Basically, a GFCI measures the current that it is sourcing and compares it to what is returning, and trips when there is a discrepancy. It's possible that the conversion lamp is creating a line anomaly that the GFCI is interpreting as a ground fault, but .......

Another thought - this is a GFCI receptacle and not a receptacle protected by a GFCI breaker? AFCI (arc-fault) breakers look similar, and could easily have a problem with an HID ballast.

 

[cravin morehead]

i think that might be it. if its an afci receptacle (which looks alot like a gfci), i don't believe are compatible with hid lighting. have you tried an electrical wholesaler?? its just a MH, so you don't need the best. just need color spectrum and lumens. im an electrician and our wholesalers carry ge, sylvania, ushio,etc...but not hortilux. the pricing is much better there than at the hydro shops too.

just saw Rives posted while i was typing, you're in good hands with him

 

[rives]

CM, have you seen AFCI receptacles? I never have, and when I googled them I got conflicting information about their availability, but no hits to a manufacturer. Seems like they should be available by now, though.

 

[cravin morehead]

Rives, yes i have. our shop had a seminar given by Pass & Seymour Legrand about 6 or 7 years ago. their representative brought in a couple of these afci recepts. i don't know if they ever really made it to market though. i think the hiccup was the 2005 code refereing to afci protected 'circuits' not just devices. i don't work in the residential field much (just grow rooms and houses), mainly commercial/industrial and public works. i kind of assumed they were out by now. after looking around, i guess not. it would be cheaper per circuit to run your conductors through one of these instead of a afci breaker though. kind of cheesy, yes, but cheaper...

sorry for taking this off topic

cm

 

[Guest 18340]

Have you tried it on a non-GFCI circuit to see if the breaker trips? Also, did you try the original HPS lamp to see if the ballast developed a ground fault? I don't know about the Sunmaster lamps but the Philips CMH lamps are supposed to run exclusively on magnetic ballasts, with a single exception. The high frequency of the electronic ballasts destroys the lamps prematurely, but I don't see how that would trip a GFCI on start-up. Basically, a GFCI measures the current that it is sourcing and compares it to what is returning, and trips when there is a discrepancy. It's possible that the conversion lamp is creating a line anomaly that the GFCI is interpreting as a ground fault, but .......

Another thought - this is a GFCI receptacle and not a receptacle protected by a GFCI breaker? AFCI (arc-fault) breakers look similar, and could easily have a problem with an HID ballast.

Yes, I tried it on a non GFCI outlet and no breakers tripped. No GFCI tripping with an HPS screwed in, just the MH conversion.
As fas as I know it's a GFCI outlet...

 

[rives]

I don't see anything identifying the receptacle in the picture - can you find a make & model on it? It sounds like there is a compatibility issue with the conversion lamp, but it's damn strange.

 

[Guest 18340]

This is them;
http://www.lowes.com/pd_83498-1571-2095TRW3PKCC4_0__?productId=3242804&Ntt=gfci+outlet&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dgfci%2Boutlet&facetInfo=

 

[rives]

GFCI, big as life! As I said above, there must be something endemic to the conversion lamps causing the problem if you have had two of them do it, yet they work on a non-GFCI circuit and with HPS lamps on the GFCI circuit.

 

[cravin morehead]

i don't have a good answer either. only thing i can think of is that the electronics are being confused. the conversion is somehow making the circuit see a ground fault.

i say find a cheap MH, not conversion, screw it in, and try it on your gfci. or call the manufacturer.

 

[Guest 18340]

Thank you guys for trying to figure this out. Gonna try a few more things before I drive 30 miles one way to exchange it.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I'd like to also point out that the problem could be with the GFCI itself, and I'll tell you why. We purchased our newly built home at the end of 2005. California code has specific requirements regarding where GFCI receptacles are to be placed, yada yada yada. Long story short, the electrician who did the work must have gotten a bad batch of receptacles, because in less than 5 years we've had to replace EVERY single one. One of my sisters is a home inspector and she claims there are bad batches of GFCIs coming out of China, which is why, according to her, we've had so much trouble.

The way they wired the house up is just completely screwy in the first place, too, and whoever was supposed to label the main breaker panel did a shit job and screwed up a lot of locations, too. Took us FOREVER to get it sorted out last year when we got the solar array and inverters.

I can't remember if you said you can get a hold of a regular MH bulb at all. Perhaps you might want to try that before you worry about changing out the receptacle.

 

[BlueBalls]

Just figured I'd mention that I recently had the same problem with a small water pump that was occasionally tripping the GFCI. Turns out it was because it was plugged into a surge suppressor. Apparently the suppression circuitry can cause false trips when used with inductive loads. Bypassing the suppressor eliminated the problem.

 

[rives]

Interesting point, BB. Surge suppressors short voltage spikes to ground so that the device that they are protecting doesn't see the spike. I wouldn't have thought that a GFCI would be fast or sensitive enough to sense it, but that's obviously not the case. You might want to entertain the idea of installing one of the surge suppression devices that mounts in your breaker panel like this or this. You are obviously getting hit with some spikes!

 

[Guest 18340]

Just figured I'd mention that I recently had the same problem with a small water pump that was occasionally tripping the GFCI. Turns out it was because it was plugged into a surge suppressor. Apparently the suppression circuitry can cause false trips when used with inductive loads. Bypassing the suppressor eliminated the problem.

I have heard this as well...

 

[cravin morehead]

any answers yet?? this is really stuck in my head, as an electrician, im very curious....

cm