Making the Ideal Garden Soil From Clay.

[ClosetAdvocate]

Okay I figured I'd ask IC Mag and get some opinions.

I have a family garden that I run with veggies and the like, so far it's tomatoes (roma's); red beets; and butternut squash. But the soil in my area is very heavy clay.

I've amended and amended and amended and now the top 12" isn't too bad but everything below the raised beds is clay. Is there anything I can do besides just start digging out the entire garden at the end of the season and tilling the clay and amending with with organic material?

BTW, I added 2 bales (3cu ft each) of peat to 3 rows of the garden and I still could probably use 5 more.

For the time being I ended up digging the tomato planting holes with a post hole digger and amended the holes below the 12" mark. It's times like this that I wish I had a backhoe.

 

[barnyard]

clay soil usually has good nutrients but has a tendency to hold water. Amend with compost or to increase drainage bring in some sand. The peat will improve soil structure but holds water which may not help when your trying to increase drainage in clay soil.

Remember not to dig wet soil. You could double dig the soil and amend with compost and should be good to go. Can it be dug with a shovel? Try not to walk on your soil and a backhoe may do more damage.

good luck with that CA!

 

[Infinitesimal]

do you add gypsum?

 

[SeaMaiden]

Okay I figured I'd ask IC Mag and get some opinions.

I have a family garden that I run with veggies and the like, so far it's tomatoes (roma's); red beets; and butternut squash. But the soil in my area is very heavy clay.

I've amended and amended and amended and now the top 12" isn't too bad but everything below the raised beds is clay. Is there anything I can do besides just start digging out the entire garden at the end of the season and tilling the clay and amending with with organic material?

BTW, I added 2 bales (3cu ft each) of peat to 3 rows of the garden and I still could probably use 5 more.

For the time being I ended up digging the tomato planting holes with a post hole digger and amended the holes below the 12" mark. It's times like this that I wish I had a backhoe.

You and me BOTH! What we do have is a tiller, though the ROCKS can and do make that a hell of a chore, too.

So, my recommendation is to get, borrow, steal or rent a tiller to help you get the amendments mixed in. Also, gypsum is good for breaking up clay soils, as is that ubiquitous organic material (compost).

However, you can also try using some plants to help you break up that clay soil, bring up nutrients from deeper down, if you're willing to go the 'green manure' route. Mustard--drops a very deep tap root and is often planted in heavy soils to help get them gently broken up. I didn't plant enough last year, but in the two spots where I did, the soil's just a wee bit better.

 

[Hazed]

I think barnyard is right on the money! Clay with a little sand (clay loam) is often used for dryland farming. The PH can be optimal at 5.8 to 6.0 in most areas I have seen.
If you can dig 4 feet and still not find many rocks you may also have natural sub irrigation, where the moisture transfers to the surface every evening. A sub irrigated clay loam dryland farmer would normally plow to 10", compact the bed, plant the seeds, then mulch/till the walkways and between plants to a depth of 3" - 4" to make a dry mulch on top which would inhibit weed seed germination, and train crop roots to run deep while also conserving moisture for the crop.
A good dryland plot can easily go over a month without rain, and normally will produce fruit and vegetables with more intense flavors and higher in natural sugars.

The downside of clay is that chemical residues can lay at the bottom of the plow furrow for many years. Arsenate of lead was banned over 50 years ago, but can still to this day be found in some of the old clay farm ground, along with DDT.

If its virgin ground then congrats, you probably have some prime ground there, add humus to build a soil that falls apart easily when damp and ALWAYS cultivate loosen the top after every rain so as to save the moisture and not let the ground bake on top.

Oh and IMO Clay is the ultimate soil for organic crops as the nitrates and other goodies do not leach as easily (unflushable Buwahaha). Best to yah...Hazed

A lot of people add Gypsum, but there is a chevy/ford, intel/AMD type of on going arguement that has been going on for many years as to which specific clay soil it will benefit. Most farmers apply it every few years anyway it should atleast help the soil drain better!

 

[ClosetAdvocate]

Thanks everyone. For the time being I think it's fine. I think come the fall I'm going to actually move the top 12" to one side of the garden and till the clay and add a ton organic material and put it back and then do it on the other side. It's probably going to take me a few days work to do it. I'd love to use coco, but it's so much more expensive than peat.

 

[VerdantGreen]

gypsum will do wonders for some types of clay soil. add some every year if you think it helps yours.
also double digging - i.e digging to two spade's depth. is the best plan to get organic matter down to the subsoil and break it up. i wouldnt bother adding sand as sometimes you get a kind of cement from the mixture... and the amount of sand you need to add to make a difference would be huge.

one of the best things to break up clay is to use the winter frosts (if you get them) dig the soil in autumn and leave the big clods on the surface. the frost over winter will shatter them and make them crumble and it's easy to break up with a fork in the spring.

as said above - dont stand on clay soil, especially when wet - and dont work it when it's too wet either. this can mean that there are only a few days in spring when it's just right. not too wet or too dry.

well worked and amended clay makes very good soil


VG

 

[Hazed]

gypsum will do wonders for some types of clay soil. add some every year if you think it helps yours.
also double digging - i.e digging to two spade's depth. is the best plan to get organic matter down to the subsoil and break it up. i wouldnt bother adding sand as sometimes you get a kind of cement from the mixture... and the amount of sand you need to add to make a difference would be huge.

one of the best things to break up clay is to use the winter frosts (if you get them) dig the soil in autumn and leave the big clods on the surface. the frost over winter will shatter them and make them crumble and it's easy to break up with a fork in the spring.

as said above - dont stand on clay soil, especially when wet - and dont work it when it's too wet either. this can mean that there are only a few days in spring when it's just right. not too wet or too dry.

well worked and amended clay makes very good soil


VG

Old dryland farmer taught me how to check if it was to wet to work a field,just stand there and tap your foot on the ground about 20 times, if your foot print gets shiny with moisture then its to wet, also if its subirrigated its always dryer in the afternoons so you sometimes have that window of time to break ground.
Once you break it away from the hardpan it will stay workable until the next rain.

 

[ClosetAdvocate]

I'll try adding gypsum to the soil. I have a little front tine tiller that I use (thank God for that).

 

[mexcurandero420]

Rock dust like basalt or lava would do the trick combined with gypsum + organic matter like good quality compost and you'll have a good quality soil.

Keep on growing

 

[SeaMaiden]

Advocate, like you, all I have is heavy clay that's packed with rocks (I don't recall you mentioning the rocks, so if you don't have them maybe this'll make you feel a bit better). It's SO rocky that it is literally impossible to double dig, I've tried it. At first I was very annoyed that my husband went and bought a tiller without telling (no tiller telling!), but now, three years later, after just one year of green manuring and adding back just a bit more organic matter, I can see the changes occurring.

Green manure will be your friend, especially over winter.

Mexcurander, I'm envious inasmuch as you've got that great volcanic soil. Maybe not so much if that volcano is still active...

 

[mexcurandero420]

Mexcurander, I'm envious inasmuch as you've got that great volcanic soil. Maybe not so much if that volcano is still active...

I've got experience with heavy clay myself which was very sticky thanks to the sodium containing chemical fertilizer given by the previous owner.Year after year adding rock dust did improve the soil, but what i learned thanks to Don Weaver is that adding rock dust can be given in large quantities.It has no effect on the pH of the soil like lime or dolomite.

A lot of volcanoes are active nowadays, so plenty of lava

Keep on growing

 

[Headbandf1]

I advocate gypsum lots and lots of gypsum, after a couple years it will turn to be loomie

 

[MsSweetPea]

Sounds like a lot of work, but I'm sure you already know how rewarding it turns out. We enjoy eating, canning and sharing from our organic vegi garden. Our neighbors and co-workers are always glad to see us when things are in season.

 

[ClosetAdvocate]

Sounds like a lot of work, but I'm sure you already know how rewarding it turns out. We enjoy eating, canning and sharing from our organic vegi garden. Our neighbors and co-workers are always glad to see us when things are in season.

Yeah despite our less than ideal soil we still canned gallons of homemade tomato sauce, had a ton of wax beans (I should've planted them this year, I forgot), and a lot of other stuff.

gypsum will do wonders for some types of clay soil. add some every year if you think it helps yours.
also double digging - i.e digging to two spade's depth. is the best plan to get organic matter down to the subsoil and break it up. i wouldnt bother adding sand as sometimes you get a kind of cement from the mixture... and the amount of sand you need to add to make a difference would be huge.
...
VG

Luckily I have a building supply place less than 5 minutes from me with 100s of tons of sand. Last year I added probably 500+ pounds of sand and it helped but it wasn't enough. Maybe at the end of this year I'll till it all up. Throw 2 truck loads of mushroom soil on it and plant clover.

Advocate, like you, all I have is heavy clay that's packed with rocks (I don't recall you mentioning the rocks, so if you don't have them maybe this'll make you feel a bit better). It's SO rocky that it is literally impossible to double dig, I've tried it. At first I was very annoyed that my husband went and bought a tiller without telling (no tiller telling!), but now, three years later, after just one year of green manuring and adding back just a bit more organic matter, I can see the changes occurring.

Green manure will be your friend, especially over winter.

Luckily most of the rocks are gone. After years of working the soil we pull out any rocks bigger than a ping pong ball. I might have to try planting some winter wheat or something in the fall and see if it will help improve the soil.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Don't forget the mustard. Sends down long tap root, good for breaking up heavy soils. I planted mustards last year in my lower terraces, they've helped more than I expected with the tilth of the soil. Still needs quite a lot of organic material along with Ca supplementation, but we're getting there!

I wish for three things at this moment--a good back and knees, strength, and the skill to create rock walls with all these ROCKS. And maybe a rock sifter thingamabob that I see attached to the giant bucketloaders downcountry.

 

[ClosetAdvocate]

Don't forget the mustard. Sends down long tap root, good for breaking up heavy soils. I planted mustards last year in my lower terraces, they've helped more than I expected with the tilth of the soil. Still needs quite a lot of organic material along with Ca supplementation, but we're getting there!

I wish for three things at this moment--a good back and knees, strength, and the skill to create rock walls with all these ROCKS. And maybe a rock sifter thingamabob that I see attached to the giant bucketloaders downcountry.

I use hardware cloth stapled to a 2x4 frame to sift out rocks, but it's a lot of hardwork.

 

[rosalind]

clay soil usually has good nutrients but has a tendency to hold water. Amend with compost or to increase drainage bring in some sand. The peat will improve soil structure but holds water which may not help when your trying to increase drainage in clay soil.

Remember not to dig wet soil. You could double dig the soil and amend with compost and should be good to go. Can it be dug with a shovel? Try not to walk on your soil and a backhoe may do more damage.

good luck with that CA!

Yes, I am agree that clay coil usually has good nutrients due of its substantiality, restrain moisture well. It also incline to be more nutrient-rich than other soil types.

 

[headband 707]

Yeah just read the part about CLAY and trying to grow in it and it's not a good growing medium at all. just saying .. your going to have to change that idea and make some of your own black gold bra headband 707

 

[gOurd^jr.]

Count me on the cover cropping and green manure bandwagon. Double digging, tilling and all that will help, but using "weeds" or other cover to break up that clay is going to be your most efficient bet. I'm sure you can find some local weeds that'll grow in there and break it up, bring up minerals from lower strata etc. I wouldn't spend too much energy to incorporate OM additions but rather add them on top and let them build up the surface layer over time. Unless the area is very small as to make more labor intensive methods worthwhile/practical I would be doing minimal tillage going at it MAINLY from the top down with green manure and mulch.
Good Luck!