Unknown problem with clones & newly rooted plants
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GoldCountryGuy
Member
We've never had any issue like this with years of experience. We didn't find any similar pictures online and didn't find anything similar in the hemp pests and disease book we usually reference. Seems to be affecting clones in the cloner and larger rooted plants as well. Less than 10 percent of the population has this issue.
Looks like it could be light burn. Are they under floros or hid? Try raising the light a bit.
Also have you sprayed anything on them,neem or foliar sprays. I've seen plants burned from being sprayed with neem oil and other things then being under a light. I always spray for bugs prevention in the evening outdoors or with the lights off indoors.
Good luck.
Also have you sprayed anything on them,neem or foliar sprays. I've seen plants burned from being sprayed with neem oil and other things then being under a light. I always spray for bugs prevention in the evening outdoors or with the lights off indoors.
Good luck.
that's what we were thinking right away...they're near, not directly under, a HID which is four to five feet off the ground and were also exposed to morning sunlight which came through the window a few days ago.
Suspecting that it was light burn, from the sun, we closed off that window the following day.
The issue, however, seems to persist.
Suspecting that it was light burn, from the sun, we closed off that window the following day.
The issue, however, seems to persist.
GoldCountryGuy
Member
No sprays at all other than azatrol with lights off once and I'm quite certain that isn't the issue.
I have them out of the direct light, but, i could move them more.
Thinking about moving them more out of the light and hitting a kelp spray since they are dark cycle right now.
S
Space Ghost
what is your rooting medium? I had a similar problem with some old rapid rooters (they were sealed in a bag and left for quite some time with condensation forming) They didn't smell bad, but i bet they were full of more bacteria and disease than paris hilton... Lost a lot of clones that way, but got some new rooters and sterilized everything, problem went away...
Hope this helps
SG
EDIT: looks like you're doing aero or something similar... Clean the hell out of everything and try again...
Hope this helps
SG
EDIT: looks like you're doing aero or something similar... Clean the hell out of everything and try again...
SmokeyTheGrower
Member
I've had the same thing occur after using azatrol. I still use it,but I use it at half or three quarter strength. It's strong stuff.
G
greenmatter
where the fuck do you store your rapid rooters man? more diseases than paris? and they didn't stink?
been using rapid rooters for a long time and have had some of the same problems until i checked out this thread
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683
i think herb is using an aero cloner so what he is saying might help the OP
i use 1 ml of the solution per 25 oz. spray bottle of water and have not had any "strange" clone issues since i started
GoldCountryGuy
Member
Thanks for all the quick responses.
Please understand that this issue is only happening to 10 percent of the clones in the cloner. It is also equally happening to plants that i received rooted from another source.
The problem was just starting on the few plants in the cloner when i got the new genetics, so i am 100 percent sure the new clones already rooted i received are NON issue.
Also the new rooted clones I received were never sprayed with azatrol, so i rule that out.
One clone has slowly drooped/crisped/changed weird colors black/yellow and died, but the rest seem to be attempting to hang on.
Very confused and a shitty/busy time of year for this to be happening.
Please understand that this issue is only happening to 10 percent of the clones in the cloner. It is also equally happening to plants that i received rooted from another source.
The problem was just starting on the few plants in the cloner when i got the new genetics, so i am 100 percent sure the new clones already rooted i received are NON issue.
Also the new rooted clones I received were never sprayed with azatrol, so i rule that out.
One clone has slowly drooped/crisped/changed weird colors black/yellow and died, but the rest seem to be attempting to hang on.
Very confused and a shitty/busy time of year for this to be happening.
S
SeaMaiden
Looks like disease to my eye. You mentioned in your other thread that you have a scope, I think you're going to need to use it.
You could be having a fungal problem commonly known as "damping off". A number of fungal pathogens fit under this umbrella. My clones have a heck of a time with this. In the aerocloner the first symptom is distress of, and death of the newest growth. Then the stems turn mushy.
It sometimes hits rooted plants. That you have it spreading into older plants is alarming.
GoldCountryGuy
Member
Bizaar I've never had anything happen in this cloner before, I've done thousands of clones and not had this issue.
The plants that are in soil that have the issue, seemed to get it within hours of me transplanting them. I did this is the same room that the cloner is in.
Is this an airborn issue? none of the other clones in the cloner are experiencing this.
Most importantly, what would you suggest to fix/cure/etc this issue?
In the mean time ill be reading into damping off as much as I can in an attempt to remedy this asap.
With the young plants that fail, does the stem eventually collapse at its base?
Damping off is a very common scourge of commercial greenhouse agriculture. It can hit seedlings hard. I can't say with 100% certainty that this is what's been killing my clones for over a year now, but the process of elimination has brought me to this point.
In reading about treatments for this fungal problem, I found people complaining that the treatments that once worked were not available on the market anymore. Seems that these fungal remedies had copper-sulphate as the active ingredient. It has been removed from the food related market by the feds. Copper-sulphate crystals are sold in hardware stores as root killer. A very very dilute solution added to the cloner might be all that it takes. I haven't tried this yet.
I read that simply tossing hunks of copper into a cloner won't add significant copper ions to the solution. On the other hand, I read of placing pennies in the bottom of a laboratory solution tank to control fungus infection. There are a number of copper based "natural.garden safe" spray fungicides that possibly could be added to a cloner which might help.
As I said, I've been battling this problem. My last batch of approximately forty clones I lost all but one cutting to mush. Although this seems to be not uncommon, I'd been unable to find much info that directly addressed this problem in cannabis agriculture. Sterile techniques and chlorine helps but you seem to have what I seem to have here, a persistent and virulent pathogen that gets everywhere.
Here is a link to a recent trainwreck of a thread in which I provide more info and links on this:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=237094
Damping off is a very common scourge of commercial greenhouse agriculture. It can hit seedlings hard. I can't say with 100% certainty that this is what's been killing my clones for over a year now, but the process of elimination has brought me to this point.
In reading about treatments for this fungal problem, I found people complaining that the treatments that once worked were not available on the market anymore. Seems that these fungal remedies had copper-sulphate as the active ingredient. It has been removed from the food related market by the feds. Copper-sulphate crystals are sold in hardware stores as root killer. A very very dilute solution added to the cloner might be all that it takes. I haven't tried this yet.
I read that simply tossing hunks of copper into a cloner won't add significant copper ions to the solution. On the other hand, I read of placing pennies in the bottom of a laboratory solution tank to control fungus infection. There are a number of copper based "natural.garden safe" spray fungicides that possibly could be added to a cloner which might help.
As I said, I've been battling this problem. My last batch of approximately forty clones I lost all but one cutting to mush. Although this seems to be not uncommon, I'd been unable to find much info that directly addressed this problem in cannabis agriculture. Sterile techniques and chlorine helps but you seem to have what I seem to have here, a persistent and virulent pathogen that gets everywhere.
Here is a link to a recent trainwreck of a thread in which I provide more info and links on this:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=237094
S
SeaMaiden
I have experience with people trying to kill off a fish shop saltwater system by throwing pennies into it. It does not work. There needs, I think, to be something more than just saltwater and electric current to get those copper ions to shed off and go into solution.
(The point of doing this is that copper kills invertebrates. It has been done between competing shops, and if they hit the invert system it's a real mess.)
I believe that copper sulfate (sp?) has been available to the aquatic world for quite some time, and its use is specifically to kill off undesirable invertebrates. This may be why it's no longer widely available, because if it gets into waterways it's extremely effective at killing *all* inverts.
I have found this paper on how to calculate CuSO4·5H2O levels without killing off your fish.
I'm also easily finding sources for the dry powder form.
(The point of doing this is that copper kills invertebrates. It has been done between competing shops, and if they hit the invert system it's a real mess.)
I believe that copper sulfate (sp?) has been available to the aquatic world for quite some time, and its use is specifically to kill off undesirable invertebrates. This may be why it's no longer widely available, because if it gets into waterways it's extremely effective at killing *all* inverts.
I have found this paper on how to calculate CuSO4·5H2O levels without killing off your fish.
I'm also easily finding sources for the dry powder form.
Woah!, tossing pennies in your competitor's reef tank? How rude. With that saltwater it wouldn't be long until you were down to the zinc core. I don't think that the water alkalinity issue mentioned in that paper (to avoid killing fish) relates to use in a cloner.
Here are the links from the aforementioned thread. The fishfarmacy page discusses preparing a stable copper-sulphate stock solution. What is the best operating ppm for the solution within a cloner? I do not know.
References
Copper.org; Copper Sulfate's Role in Agriculture;
http://www.copper.org/applications/compounds/copper_sulfate02.html
History of Fungicide Development
http://www.kondodys.com/bordeaux.htm
Copper.org; Uses of Copper Compounds; Table B--Plant Diseases Amenable to Treatment by Copper Fungicides
http://www.copper.org/applications/compounds/table_b.html
Snail control and copper
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/snail/coppersnail.php
Mixing copper-sulphate to treat aquarium fish infections:
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/Q&A/all_about_copper.html
Mixing solutions:
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/scienc...Sci_p018.shtml
Here are the links from the aforementioned thread. The fishfarmacy page discusses preparing a stable copper-sulphate stock solution. What is the best operating ppm for the solution within a cloner? I do not know.
References
Copper.org; Copper Sulfate's Role in Agriculture;
http://www.copper.org/applications/compounds/copper_sulfate02.html
History of Fungicide Development
http://www.kondodys.com/bordeaux.htm
Copper.org; Uses of Copper Compounds; Table B--Plant Diseases Amenable to Treatment by Copper Fungicides
http://www.copper.org/applications/compounds/table_b.html
Snail control and copper
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/snail/coppersnail.php
Mixing copper-sulphate to treat aquarium fish infections:
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/Q&A/all_about_copper.html
Mixing solutions:
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/scienc...Sci_p018.shtml
Still Invisible
Member
I think cloning tends to be a bit intellectualised; just stick them in soil and they will grow.
I have tried most methods including straight into soil, rockwool cubes, glass of water on the window sill and suspending them in water with styrofoam pieces and an air bubbler.
They all work but I go for rockwool cubes because I can fit more into a small area.
If the plant you take them from is healthy then they all grow roots.
I have never had damping off with clones but I get it sometimes with seeds; the stem shrivels in one spot and then the seedling falls over.
It helps if you don't water them too much; let them dry out between waterings.
I have tried most methods including straight into soil, rockwool cubes, glass of water on the window sill and suspending them in water with styrofoam pieces and an air bubbler.
They all work but I go for rockwool cubes because I can fit more into a small area.
If the plant you take them from is healthy then they all grow roots.
I have never had damping off with clones but I get it sometimes with seeds; the stem shrivels in one spot and then the seedling falls over.
It helps if you don't water them too much; let them dry out between waterings.
S
SeaMaiden
More than just rude in my opinion. Few saltwater animals are cultured, most are wild-harvested/caught. This leads us to a very real moral issue.
I agree, the alkalinity issue should not be an issue with plants as it is with fishes.
I would go with algae control levels, especially since there's no concern for killing aquatic inverts. Just be careful how the water is disposed of.
There must be a pretty fine line here. We're trying to get cuttings to grow roots and this stuff is sold at the corner hardware store as root killer. Guess it comes down to taking a bunch of sacrificial cuttings and firing up the old patho-cloners for some experimentation.
On another note, I'll mention that the organic approach to this would be to innoculate the cuttings with a mycorrhizal powder and use earthworm casting tea in the cloner in an attempt to out-compete, and over-populate the cloner environment with beneficial organisms vs. the pathogens.
S
SeaMaiden
Or, how about using the CuSO4·5H2O as an agent to clear the cloner and equipment of any and all fungal spores....? Or use another cupric solution....?
Just kinda musing here.
Just kinda musing here.
