are roaches pointless? joints bad?

[señorsloth]

i have just been doing some pondering, thanks to a failed joint and a good ol' fashioned worm of iso in my vapor globe...

i smoked a joint, one of those big ol' pre-rolled raw cones, i wanted to get really ripped, my tolerance has conqoured my c99 quite quickly...very dissapointing after growing and smoking chem ibl and og kush s1's with very high tolerance resistance...c99 is bomb as hell for a week or two, then tolerance builds very quickly.

i decided to use 5 roaches to roll said joint, the old school of thought is that roaches are much stronger than regular weed, because they are soaked in the residues of the weed smoked before it...

well i barely got high at all, like 25% at best of the strength of a smallish joint of fresh c99...i ended up smoking a big worm of c99 iso with my vapor globe to make up the difference, but i got to thinking...

thc and terpenes vaporize at fairly low temperatures... the ember on a joint can reach temperatures of over 1000 degrees, thc vaporizes at 365 or so i think, and terpenes evaporate at like 180 i think...not sure on that one...but by this logic, i would think that after a couple drags from a joint, the 1000+ degree air in the coal would vaporize the weed behind the ember almost an inch along the length of the joint before it cooled down, by the time it reaches the end of the joint...

meaning that roaches shorter than an inch or so would be composed almost entirely of weed that's been vaporized to the point that it is low in both potency and flavor...it seems to make sense and would explain why my roach joint didn't do much...

but that gets me thinking more, remembering jason king's writings about organic growing, that he can tell the difference because organic buds in a joint taste good all the way to the bottom...well my last grow was organic, but before that ive always use light doses of maxi bloom, i noticed no difference in the flavor, nor the propensity to lose flavor as the joint is smoked...ive actually noticed that certain strains seem to last longer, through the life of the joint than other strains. could it be that the individual terpenoid profile in a strain and their respective evaporation temps has more to with flavor longevity in a joint than organic vs chemical growing? some terps must have higher evaporation temps then others, which in theory would cause them to vaporize less from the heat of the joints ember, making the flavor last longer...

and on another note, i've read somewhere that 40%to 60% of the thc is wasted in a joint, from copious runoff smoke, to the absorption rates of your lungs, joints waste more thc per gram than anything i would say...and if you are in effect smoking semi-vaporized weed by the time your 1/3rd of the way in...well it seems to me that it becomes even less of an effective way to smoke.

sure they get you higher, they force you to smoke faster, give bigger rips than most pipes, but gram for gram if you smoke it with the same speed but in bongs or pipes you get much higher...

so what do you guys think? why are joints so special? many connoisseurs swear by them, while others insist vaporizing is the way to go, or hemp string and a clean glass bubbler...what do you prefer when testing high end buds? if you do prefer joints, why? i am not against them, i'm just interested in learning if there is more to joints than what i am seeing, as much as i love to roll them and smoke them, they don't seem to really be an effective method of tasting and sampling connoisseur grade pot...

 

[Hammerhead]

yes LOL. Roaches have alot of bad stuff in it. I even have some I took 1 hit from and discarded it. The heat has changed many of the Terpenes to other things now.. I use to be a blunt smoker when I was a tad pole. As I got older I could not handle the harshness of blunts. I only use my Bubbler now

 

[stc9357]

I roll with filters so no roaches and I smoke blunts 75% of the time.

 

[gingerale]

I am a hardcore blunt smoker. Filtered would be best imo but I am not skilled enough to roll em that way. One day I will invent a machine to roll em how I think is best. In the mean time, roaches are no big deal....I'm not concerned about any waste....there's plenty more where that came from. You just gotta let go of the scarcity mentality, when you start growing for yourself.

 

[Hammerhead]

they have some with the filter already in it. I think there called cones.. You pack the cone yourself with cannabis until its filled ???

 

[Infinitesimal]

EDIT: I'll still save some good roaches and fire them up in a bubbler or bong and they work but its not the same... I think its mostly out of habit and not wanting to be wasteful

yep thats why scientist say that only 10% (or something like that) of the THC found in the original sample will make it into the bloodstream when smoking a joint or blunt because the cherry is vaporizing the essential oils from the plant matter behind the cherry before its every ignited, even whilst still smoking it, long before it ever gets to the roach stage. smoking pipes or bongs yields 76% of THC into the bloodstream and vaporizers are supposed to yield around 90+% efficiency at entering THC into the bloodstream

great question!

peace,
Infi

 

[Infinitesimal]

I roll with filters so no roaches and I smoke blunts 75% of the time.

they have some with the filter already in it. I think there called cones.. You pack the cone yourself with cannabis until its filled ???

filters or crutches?

 

[headband 707]

oh I don't know I love my roaches lol.. I think your tolerance is just getting higher and you need to really kick up your strains to the Purple Kushes and the Green crack and Blue Dream strains now lol.. and always keep the roaches lol stay safe headband 707

 

[Hammerhead]

Maybe someone that smokes alot of blunts can confirm. You drop filters in before you roll up the blunt they have some they call tips that are made from paper...I have never used one before

 

[stc9357]

filters or crutches?

I thought they were one in the same I put a circular piece of thick index card like paper there stops weed from getting in my mouth and prevents me from having to save a roach. Here's one of my blunts has a circular piece at the end prevents "nigga lipping" (I'm black and thats what someone told me it was called) and allows all the above I taper down towards the end.

Card can be seen in the background when I get to where I want to in life like gingerale I guess there will be no need still did it when I was selling packs from cali so I might not ever stop.

 

[stc9357]

Maybe someone that smokes alot of blunts can confirm. You drop filters in before you roll up the blunt they have some they call tips that are made from paper...I have never used one before

Yes you drop it in before you roll up if you see the paper in the background towards the left thats the kind I use. Can show the whole process but figured it wasn't needed.

 

[sso]

how much more wasteful are joints compared to everything else?

well, i smoke gravity bongs usually and they are about 25% more efficient than bongs or pipes (stash lasts 25% longer, stash lasts a week with gb´s? stash lasts about 1.5 days less with bongs or pipes.)


and joints?

once i had a bag of weed and nothing but paper to roll it into joints.

week later and only quarter left of the stuff, i was going "fuck im running through this fast" .

so, i first made a rudimentary pipe and then bought a tobacco bong (i was abroad)

well, that quarter bag , lasted 2 weeks.

and i got the same high and higher.

so do the math on that.

personally i dont do joints anymore, kinda cant help but think "shit, that there, flying there into the air, , that there could be getting about 4 people high, including myself and now nothing is gonna enjoy it."

 

[gingerale]

I don't see joints as wasteful....I enjoy the overall experience of blazing down a blunt much more than pipes and glass...not everything necessarily needs to be measured in terms of percentages and efficiency standards. Remember, this is a plant that is easy to grow and yields prolifically...

 

[Nonphixion]

EDIT: I'll still save some good roaches and fire them up in a bubbler or bong and they work but its not the same... I think its mostly out of habit and not wanting to be wasteful

yep thats why scientist say that only 10% (or something like that) of the THC found in the original sample will make it into the bloodstream when smoking a joint or blunt because the cherry is vaporizing the essential oils from the plant matter behind the cherry before its every ignited, even whilst still smoking it, long before it ever gets to the roach stage. smoking pipes or bongs yields 76% of THC into the bloodstream and vaporizers are supposed to yield around 90+% efficiency at entering THC into the bloodstream

great question!

peace,
Infi

I can't help but think. If it's being vaporized behind the ember, don't you just suck in that vapor while you're inhaling, anyway?

 

[ShroomDr]

Raw Cones! They hold more than an average joint.

These say 3 per pack, but mine came in the same 'tube' and there were 6 per.

You use the straw to pack in the erb. Anyone could do it, dont overstuff or they wont burn well.

No need for roaches or roach clips.

 

[Infinitesimal]

EDIT: thats why you can get similar or stronger effects from less of the same cannabis if you us a water pipe or vaporizer, than you will using a joint or blunt

I can't help but think. If it's being vaporized behind the ember, don't you just suck in that vapor while you're inhaling, anyway?

at the beginning yes, but for each puff there becomes a larger buffer zone if you will of basically "duff" as the cherry burns down. so the ratio of vapor to burned plant matter gets smaller and smaller.

since the first sparking of the joint will release all the resins from the burning tip and vaporize the resins just behind the cherry, the next puff will be burning already vaporized plant matter, and the heat would have to work through said already Vaped matter, before it began to Vape the fresh resins off the matter behind the cherry yet to be Vaped.

and thereby creating an even larger zone of already Vaped matter for the next puff, that a percentage of which must be ignited before any fresh resins are Vaped, so subsequently each hit will contain more burned duff to less fresh resins as the fresh resins recede away from the heat of the burning cherry.

IDK if that is very clear, I've never tried to put into that much detail before? If not ill try and re word it or something

peace,
Infi

 

[juicepuddle]

Ever since I started smoking I wondered why anyone would smoke a joint, it makes no sense to me... After the first puff off of it ALL the weed wrapped in it has had smoke flow over it... its like getting pipe tar/resin on your weed before packing a bowl(ignorant).

By the time you get to the "roach" its fucking BLACK with nasty tar/resin. Also your smoking a ton of paper if you add it up over the years.

 

[stc9357]

It's convenience and I feel most comfortable just sitting back chilling smoking a blunt.

 

[señorsloth]

lol wow, lotta blunt smokers! personally they aren't for me, i smoke a couple a year though at least, i love rolling them. i have a 4/20 tradition involving one so there is always at least one a year...

stc9357 has it though, that's how i roll blunts, save the outer leaf and re-roll it, makes it so much tighter, burns like a cigar and has no seams, but ya gotta lick up the outer leaf really good and it tastes bleh. afterward i pull a little out and put a tip in it, you can buy them from smoke shops, just little strips of paper with perforations so you can fold it up easier...

when i roll joints i use elements papers, probably the thinnest i can access, and they have a neat little magnet in the pack to hold it closed lol i dunno, but it leaves no ash, i use their filter tips too...

since the first sparking of the joint will release all the resins from the burning tip and vaporize the resins just behind the cherry, the next puff will be burning already vaporized plant matter, and the heat would have to work through said already Vaped matter, before it began to Vape the fresh resins off the matter behind the cherry yet to be Vaped.

and thereby creating an even larger zone of already Vaped matter that a percentage of which must be ignited before any fresh resins are Vaped, so subsequently each hit will contain more burned duff to less fresh resins as the fresh resins recede away from the heat of the burning cherry.

don't forget this effect is increased even more when passing it among more people, two people smoking a joint can smoke it twice as fast as one person, increasing the amount of heat passing through the joint and giving the buds in the joint or blunt less time too cool down between rips. on that note though, two people can only smoke a joint so fast, if you have 5 or 6 eager smokers, power ripping a big joint, you could feasibly burn/vaporize all the weed in the joint in the first pass, because the weed has no time to cool down at all, it just gets blasted with heat over and over again with little time in between. after the first pass you are basically sending around around what amounts to basically the leftovers of a vaporizer for 2 more rounds...tasting poopy and not really adding to the high just causing more coughing...connoisseur cigar smokers wait like 45 seconds to a minute in between puffs, because heating the cigar makes the flavor more harsh...im not advocating that but it does sorta show a contrast.

too whomever suggested i switch to stronger strains, i do have a high tolerance, but it's really only for this strain, and i have a lot of it...i am taking a break though soon as i usually do when my tolerance hits this point...i'm not a big advocate of just switching to stronger strains, though c99 is supposed to be a holy grail, the first few times it felt like i was coming down from mushrooms, i couldn't get too sleep till the wee hours of the night... brain just wouldn't stop racing.... better to have a low tolerance so any strain blows you away, much better for noticing the little nuances of connoisseur grade pot...heavy smokers lose their sense of smell and taste somewhat, even more so if tobbaco from cigarettes or blunts are increased alongside pot which many people tend to do.

 

[yesum]

I googled this question and in the scientific test I read, it said the roach is stronger in thc. Lots of harshness there as well. I smoke em but growing my own I do not have to and likely should not for the gunk build up factor.