Save my babies!

[Sunmaid]

I originally posted this on a different forum, but out of 400 views, not a single reply. I'm kind of unfamiliar with this site, so please forgive me if this is in the wrong place.

Quick rundown of my setup:

• 51.5"Long x 22.5"Wide x 48.5" Grow Tent
• 4 ft. 4 Lamp High Output T5 Grow Light with 6400k bulbs
• 4 Inch In-Line Fan 165 CFM
• Temps 72-74 degrees F
• Fox Farm Ocean Forrest soil w/ 33% perlite added
• my pH meter is on the fritz, so I can't tell ya how it is ATM.
• Watering when soil is almost completely dry.
• Nutes: None until I started to see this problem starting (again.)

Added Sunleaves mexican bat guano 10-1-1 at half strength 4 days ago. Showing no signs of improvement, and the problem is rapidly increasing.


This is my second attempt at plants in this soil, which has me wondering about FFOF. These are two different plants, but I have 5 all together showing the same issues. I lost 5 prior to this grow with the same problems, but these ones made it a little farther this time. Any opinions on diagnosis and solutions are much appreciated!

 

[greenpinky]

Ya bro its ur soil, get ir ph meter going or buy a new cheap on off e bay (like $5) and check it but might have too meny salts, I don't cair too much for fox farm. But if this is the second time go look into the lucas formula, that's shit is bomb, check out the k.I.s.s. method too. Good luck.. all info found on the baddest fourms on da internet. Ic mag

 

[ixnay007]

It's a lockout of some type, possibly phosphorus, or calcium.

What kind of water are you using?

 

[Kcar]

I would use a more well rounded nute. something like 10-10-10. Also,
how close are you putting the lights to your babies? T5's are pretty strong for seedlings.
I would put them atleast 20-24" away.

 

[eddie torres]

I am also having problems w my seedlings. Not quite the same problem tho. I have spotting. I gave them ewc yesterday and this morning their is much improvment. I gave them a foliar of dolomite lime this morning just in case its calcium. And yes watch for light burn. I replaced my t5 bulbs and had to raise the light up 12in. Good luck. and give em ewc, it will help.

 

[eddie torres]

FFOF can be hot for seedlings. They might just need to grow into it. I personally dont use OF until the roots are bound in the beer cup and the plants are about 10in tall

 

[sso]

lol, the quickest way to solve this, would be to add some urine (your own) and then water normally.

havent seen yet a problem in veg that i couldnt solve with that (lesson from an old native american )

 

[Toes.]

Garden tip: Perfect for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. Ocean Forest® is pH adjusted at 6.3 to 6.8 to allow for optimum fertilizer uptake. There’s no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try an organic blend like FoxFarm Big Bloom™ Liquid Plant Food to encourage strong branching and a sturdy, healthy growth habit.

too much N locks out K

I think your potassium deficient.

 

[Sunmaid]

Thanks for all the FAST responses and advice. I will take it all in and see if I can possibly save these babies.

What kind of water are you using?

Tap water. pH test strips show it to be around 6.5-7.0

T5's are pretty strong for seedlings.
I would put them atleast 20-24" away.

I've always read that the lights should be as close as possible so long as it's not too hot, so my lights have been literally 2" from the tops. I will raise it about 10" and see how that goes.

too much N locks out K

I think your potassium deficient.

I had this problem prior to adding the guano, so I'm not sure how it could be too much N locking out K. I'm terrible at this stuff, but it looked like N def to me. I may pick up a soil test kit today to be sure. Kinda pissed as this is why I bought FFOF in the first place. I didn't want to mess around with ferts until they were well established. I did try using Happy Frog in my previous round and lost 3 to that.

 

[Sunmaid]

I'm starting to wonder if it might be phosphorus deficient. Can anyone confirm?
I have some FF Big Bloom. Do you guys think it would be a good idea to give em a drink?

 

[SeaMaiden]

If those were mine I would try to get them into a windowsill for a bit. Let the soil dry out, let them get some sunlight, then give water only or perhaps an EWC tea. I don't think I've ever seen a deficiency, lock-out or toxicity that looked like that (but I'm trying to get as many under my belt as possible!), but I do have some charts and graphics I can share with you that may help.

You did also leave out some important parameters, obviously not the least of which is the pH of the media, but also temperature and relative humidity parameters.

It looks as though you have the beginning of a Mg- occurring along with that odd necrosis of the lower leaves, btw. Possibly P, possibly K, definitely seeing the barest beginning of Mg-. Looking more closely, I'm not seeing the typical reddened (sometimes more purplish) petioles that tell of the beginning of a P problem, so I'm leaning more towards K.

I'm thinking perhaps they're a bit on the cool side, or at least their roots may be a bit too cool. Along with nutrient/elemental interactions, you also want to learn about vapor pressure deficit and how to calculate it.

I really like the graphic chart, but whoever put it together left out the Ca-/+! Which, btw, leads me to say that I do not think it's a Ca problem, it's too early and the plant doesn't have enough growth to be significantly translocating Ca just yet, IME/IMO.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

first pic, nuteburn possibly from overwatering, second pic, nuteburn, possibly from overwatering.

final determination: let the pots dry all the way out before you water them next time.

calcium shows on baby leaves first and looks like little rust holes burned into the leaves.

general rules.

if it shows on older leaves first (fanleaves and the lower shit) its a macro nutrient N-P-K-Mg etc

if it shows on growth tips and new leaves first its a micro nutrient Ca-Fe-Mn-Mo-Bo etc

 

[northstate]

stihgnobevoli has given you some good advice, they look wet to me and water logged roots cant exchange air. With those big indica leaves it should be able to hang in the FFOF, let them get dry and water with plain ph adjusted water and let some run out the bottom and if it looks like iced tea, keep watering. But do let them dry so they can breath. Good luck.NS

 

[heady blunts]

time for a transplant?

 

[VerdantGreen]

yeah i would say repot them into ffof/perlite and dont add any extra ferts. water well and then try and let the soil dry out so its just damp, not wet before the next water

t5's are fine at 2-3" so dont worry about that. the plants will stretch if you move them too far away

 

[GrowbagUK]

Hmmm....with 33% perlite and you letting them dry between waterings I don't think it is waterlogging.

Plants need adequate moisture for K uptake. I never let my seedlings dry very much...with a good medium you should have plenty of air in there whilst the soil is still moist.

It certainly looks like K deficiency but this can sometimes be mistaken for scorch damage - are the seedlings in a strong breeze? are you measuring temperature under the light at the canopy level? If it is K deficient then its due to either under/overwatering or locking out. Ca will lock out K too so if you have hard tap water that can cause issues.

Another possibility is an off-gassing tent - looks similar to off-gassing issues I have seen on here before. What brand tent do you have? Moving to a windowsill would be a good move just in case + they will benefit from less intense light whilst they recuperate so keep out of direct midday sunlight.

They definitely don't need any more fertiliser. Generally the seeds have enough energy to grow for a week and then they have very small requirements til they get going. It's best to use a light mix for the seeds and a stronger mix for the next pot up.

 

[Sunmaid]

Thanks everyone. I always let the soil dry before adding any water. I just watered 30 mins ago because it was >>bone<< dry. I usually water ever 3 days.

yeah i would say repot them into ffof/perlite and dont add any extra ferts.

they're already in ffof/perlite. any reason why i would transplant them into the same soil mixture they are currently in? they are faaaarrr from rootbound. just wondering.

 

[Sunmaid]

Hmmm....with 33% perlite and you letting them dry between waterings I don't think it is waterlogging.

Plants need adequate moisture for K uptake. I never let my seedlings dry very much...with a good medium you should have plenty of air in there whilst the soil is still moist.

It certainly looks like K deficiency but this can sometimes be mistaken for scorch damage - are the seedlings in a strong breeze? are you measuring temperature under the light at the canopy level? If it is K deficient then its due to either under/overwatering or locking out. Ca will lock out K too so if you have hard tap water that can cause issues.

Another possibility is an off-gassing tent - looks similar to off-gassing issues I have seen on here before. What brand tent do you have? Moving to a windowsill would be a good move just in case + they will benefit from less intense light whilst they recuperate so keep out of direct midday sunlight.

They definitely don't need any more fertiliser. Generally the seeds have enough energy to grow for a week and then they have very small requirements til they get going. It's best to use a light mix for the seeds and a stronger mix for the next pot up.

Temps at the canopy are about 74 degrees F. The tent is from HTG Supply.
I should also mention that these are about 2 weeks old. Sorry I forgot to mention that in my original post.

 

[i.love.scotch]

I would agree, no more fertilizers.


Little baby plants like that don't really need anything until they are well established. By having them in the fox farms soil that early its just burning them a little and there also may be some lockout issues (which adding any kind of additional fertilizers won't really help).

Many of the sick plants in organics are caused by babies in Ocean Forest. It's just too much for them and is definitely not designed as a seedling mix.

Give them just water for a while they should pull out of it.

The thing you need to just keep in mind at this point is adding anything to them isn't going to help because at this young of an age they shouldn't need anything in the first place.

I usually start my seedlings in plain pro-mix with nothing added (cept maybe some EWC), let them get established for a week or two and then move them up into a veg mix they can feed off of.

 

[VerdantGreen]

they're already in ffof/perlite. any reason why i would transplant them into the same soil mixture they are currently in? they are faaaarrr from rootbound. just wondering.

the symptoms look like they could be rootbinding and the plants look a bit big for the pots they are in... but if you're sure they arent then perhaps that isnt your problem.