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Built an Anti-cab, need some advice

G

Guest 279031

First off, thanks to Anti for his 2009 thread and of course Dr Bud and everyone else who has posted about their micro grows. I have read many of your threads as I researched my project. And then I wrote this book (sorry :)).

I have built my own "Anti-cab" to use under a table in my hobby room. I will have 6 42w CFLs on each side. I will also be following his and Dr Bud's methods for a perpetual SOG. I understand I can't post pics until I hit 50 posts, and you've all seen the original and several like it anyhow. I built it almost exactly like his except it's a little shorter and a little wider, to best use all of the available space under the desk.

After I had completed the entire basic structure I realized I also have several PC cases waiting for the next trip to the dump and so decided to hook one up for the moms. That means I can use both sides of the Anti-cab for flowering giving me up to 10 rows (with 20 oz bottles), harvesting one row a week. If I could do it over I would obviously have built just one large area for flowering.

Now here is the reason I chose today to post this. I am looking for suggestions and ideas and maybe something I am not considering for my problem: This cab is in an uninsulated stone room in the basement. It's under my front porch. Other homes in my neighborhood build their wine cellars in this room because it never gets above 70 even when it's 100 degrees out. So my concern is not removing heat but creating it in the first place. In the winter time I would guess it stays about 50-55 and even colder when we are in the middle of a freeze outside. When the lights are off and the fan is still pulling air, those plants are going to be hurting bad. Even in the summer it stays about 60 degrees at night.

I will run my lights from 6pm to 6am so the lights are on during the coldest part of the day, but when the lights go out there will still be a problem.

To this end I am proposing to use a ceramic heating element that is typically used for reptile tanks. This is the kind that you screw in like a light bulb. It will really crank out some heat if you let it. I want to suspend it in the middle intake chamber and stick the thermostat in one of the 2 growing chambers. The air would heat up in the intake room before being pulled through the chambers. This would ensure that no plant ever gets anywhere near it, and that the heat is distributed evenly and only when necessary.

I will use plexi under the lights in the summertime, hoping that the heater won't have to work too hard to maintain temps. However in the winter I will be yanking the plexiglass and letting the lights help out. That will save the ceramic heater some, and also keep my electric bill a little lower.

That's the theory anyhow. I look forward to your thoughts.
 
G

Guest 279031

As I was removing the drawers on rails I had installed because I just measured and discovered that I only had 18 inches between the drawer and the lights (whoops), it occurred to me that I will now be setting plants directly on the floor of the cab which will be sitting on the cold concrete floor.

That made me think about terrarium heating pads. They are designed to stick to the bottom of the fish tank. I am thinking I can install one on the floor of each cab and then build a 1/2in tall platform over the heating pad so the plants aren't sitting directly on the pad. They are also controlled by thermostat.

That would still give me 1 1/2 "extra" inches of height and solve my heat problem.
 

Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
Get some foam insulation board from the hardware store... 1/2 to 3/4 inch... the stuff with the foil or the blue should be fine. Cut it to fit the bottom of your cab.

50-55F is awesome, depending on the temps from your lamps. I would set it up and get it running... see how much it heats up the space for a week.... see what max and min temps you get in there. (there are some cheap digital thermo's that will record those for you)

If those temps stay that way all year with a cab in the room, I'd think about upgrading to CMH lamps.. :)

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:
 
I dont think you need 50 posts for pictures. That is for pm.
Best advice is to start growing and then correct any problems that come up. Because if you are new to growing there are going to be many little problems for a while.
 
You'll (obviously) want the cabinet to be off the floor, higher being better, to take advantage of the warmest air available. Is your water heater in the basement? HVAC? Free heat!
 
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G

Guest 279031

Thanks for the comments regarding the heat. I'm only going to be worried when winter comes next year. I'll put a layer of padding down as suggested for now and then possibly switch them out with heating pads when winter comes.

I figured out how to upload the pics. The first is the space I built the cab for. I don't have an option to put it anywhere else in the house, and not even on top of the table.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=36063&pictureid=854828

The cab is going underneath in the back. I primed the concrete and will paint the floor black so the cab disappears even more to the casual eye. Since this room is where I build models and work on other projects, I will be on the lookout for some sort of lightweight bookshelf to put in front of it and load up with empty modeling boxes. Then I can easily move the bookshelf to access the cab.

I own the house and don't get a lot of visitors. However, it only takes once so I am still going for as low pro as possible. The rest of the room is extremely "busy" with computer monitors, bright lights and lots going on so nobody will be peering into the darkness behind the bookshelf unless they are already looking for something.

And next pic is the cab. I have also been working on a clone box and a PC case for the moms, so I'll get to use both compartments here for flowering.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=36063&pictureid=854829

I was able to do without the top compartment on Anti's original because the table will be right over top. I want to work out the carbon filter and get it and the fan installed before putting the cab in place. There will be about an inch of clearance and no room to get behind or on top of this thing once it's in there.

Ideas on improvements or possible issues to expect are welcome and appreciated.
 
G

Guest 279031

Ok I have some more questions. First an update:

I finally convinced the boss that our server was too old and so we replaced it. I got to bring home the old one. This is a full size server, 27 inches long, 8.5 inches wide and 16 inches tall. I've got terabytes of movies and tv shows and the story that I have concocted that it's my file server. I put it in a closet. Notice the box it's sitting on as well:

picture.php


In reality, the server will hold the moms and the box underneath is outfitted for clones.

picture.php


The server has 4 23w daylight bulbs and a carbon filter made out of 2 metal strainers and pantyhose. I built a false wall in the back to hide the power strip and for a light block.

picture.php


For the cloning box I used the drawer rails that I took off the Anti-cab. I've got 2 18" plant lights and an 80mm fan exhausting out the back.

Now for the questions:

1. At the gardening center I bought some perlite and a brick of coco. I held off on buying potting soil because I have read so much conflicting info, the only sure thing is "don't buy Miracle Grow". So I need some advice. I am also ordering some worm poo (can't find it in stores).

2. CFLs. Each of my flower chambers is 14 x 17 inches which computes to 1.65 square feet. I have 6 sockets in each. If I use 23w CFLs, each puts out 1650 lumens. That's 9900 lumens for that space. That's over the minimum right? I can get a contractor pack (12 bulbs) for $15.00. They want $10 each for the 42's. I was going to snatch up a contractor pack to get started, and then start replacing with 42's as money allows. Acceptable?

Thanks!
 

Dr 4 four

Member
Now for the questions:

1. At the gardening center I bought some perlite and a brick of coco. I held off on buying potting soil because I have read so much conflicting info, the only sure thing is "don't buy Miracle Grow". So I need some advice. I am also ordering some worm poo (can't find it in stores).

2. CFLs. Each of my flower chambers is 14 x 17 inches which computes to 1.65 square feet. I have 6 sockets in each. If I use 23w CFLs, each puts out 1650 lumens. That's 9900 lumens for that space. That's over the minimum right? I can get a contractor pack (12 bulbs) for $15.00. They want $10 each for the 42's. I was going to snatch up a contractor pack to get started, and then start replacing with 42's as money allows. Acceptable?

Thanks!

When it comes to soil, the best option would be to mix up your own. MG is fine if you mix it with other potting soils that don't have any nutrients along with some perlite. MG is too hot for seedlings and cuttings. FoxFarm seems to put out consistent quality soil & potting mix that you can purchase. If you have a Rubbermaid that's not in use, I'd suggest mixing your own, plus you could start composting and recycle old soil.

42w CFL's put out quite a bit of heat so I would check your ventilation with the 23w's before you splurge on 42's.
 
G

Guest 279031

Thanks for responding. I am indeed going to mix my own. Just getting stuck on exactly what type of soil to add to the mix. I have the coco, peat, and perlite.

Do I even need to add soil to the mix? If so, do I just get topsoil with little or no nutes or should I be reading the packages looking for certain ingredients? That's the part I can't seem to find definitive answers to.

If it matters I will be using Dr Bud's methods of feeding - Superthrive, Shultz 10-15-10, and fish emollients. I am trying to follow his methods pretty closely, but there aren't a lot of ancient bogs full of rotting plant material in suburbia :biggrin:

As for the lights I am more than happy to start with the 23s, just looking for confirmation that it's enough light for the space.

Thanks again.
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
Instead of a terrarium heat mat designed to stick to the bottom glass, look into a seedling heat mat. They are designed for growing plants. Suppliers usually list them under their propagation supplies. If you wish, they can take a separate temp controller so that you don't cook the roots or you can use an adjustable short cycle timer and find the on setting that gives you the temps you want.

Those ceramic reptile heaters emit radiant heat (low InfraRed). Most of this won't be absorbed by the air directly, but will pass through, strike surfaces and heat them up instead. Air molecules bouncing off these surfaces and the warm surface of the ceramic element will be heated. So having it in your air intake may heat the air somewhat but not like you intended. I think you would want these aimed directly at your plants.
 
G

Guest 279031

Thanks. I am torn between seed mats and getting the smallest oil filled radiator I can find when winter arrives next year. If I can figure out how to get a thermostat on it, I can just heat that room up to a good 65 degrees or so and that will be fantastic.

Edit - a quick google search reveals several plug-in thermostats. The heater definitely seems the way to go.
 
T

trem0lo

Chris, looking good so far. For soil I recommend checking out the Organics for Beginners thread. Choose a recipe and you'll grow great plants every time, very foolproof.

Good luck I'll be tuning in!
 
G

Guest 279031

Thanks, trem0lo. I had read that thread and that was why I was so perplexed. There are 30 or 40 different recipes in there and some of them have 10 ingredients. I was hoping to start simple.

And now thanks to you I just went back there and started to read veeery sloooowly and the very first recipe was exactly what I was looking for.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:

5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts worm castings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

I wonder how much other stuff I missed trying to absorb everything all at once.
 

Anti

Sorcerer's Apprentice
Veteran
Mind if I tag along?

Oh, I figured I'd go ahead and link to your cab so people can see it. So this is the picture that was linked in post #7:

album.php
picture.php


Looks pretty sweet.

Let's see it with some plants in it!
 
G

Guest 279031

Thanks, Anti. It's going to still be some time. My wife was out of work for a few months and we are still digging out from that, and therefore I'm squeezing out a couple of bucks here and there every paycheck. I still need the small but important stuff - thermometers, ph stuff, light bulbs, SEEDS :biggrin:

On a positive note I am having plenty of time to study and figure things out before getting started.
 
T

trem0lo

Thanks, trem0lo. I had read that thread and that was why I was so perplexed. There are 30 or 40 different recipes in there and some of them have 10 ingredients. I was hoping to start simple.

And now thanks to you I just went back there and started to read veeery sloooowly and the very first recipe was exactly what I was looking for.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:

5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts worm castings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

I wonder how much other stuff I missed trying to absorb everything all at once.

Right on, so the LC #1 mix is your base mix. Use it for seedlings and young plants. The worm castings give enough nutrients while the plants are young but aren't hot enough to harm them.

For flowering you take LC#1 mix and add goodies. I use bone and blood meal at the very least, and dried kelp and azomite if I can swing it, but my first grow just had bone/blood and they were fine all the way through flower. Once the little guys are a few weeks old transplant into bigger pots of this mix and either continue vegging or begin flowering.

Actually I have used the amended soil for very young plants and as long as they have a few nodes they will love it. The great thing about organics is the plants take what they need.

Make the mixes a couple weeks in advance and allow them to "cook" so things like the lime and bone can break down. I have had PH problems from using the mix too soon as the lime doesn't buffer correctly. Just put it in a trash bag, wet it and let it sit in a closet for a week at the minimum.

Also I buy my powdered lime and worm castings on ebay as they are difficult to fine anywhere else (and the castings are homemade as opposed to dry powder).
 
G

Guest 279031

Ok I have everything built and all my supplies assembled, and I ordered a 10 pack of Nirvana White Rhino along with the mystery special - CH9 Female Cluster. The order was within my budget, and from all reviews the White Rhino is very forgiving to noob mistakes.

While I wait on my seeds, I am hoping some of you can review so far and point out anything I missed. Honestly the waiting is already getting to me and I just placed the order on Friday :drum:.

The pics are in the posts above.

Flower cab: 2 compartments, 20 inch tall from floor to glass, 1.65 sq ft in each compartment. 6 23w 2700k cfl's in each. I will switch out to 42s gradually as I get some extra cash here and there. Each one fits 30 water bottles. This will allow me to harvest one row a week with an extra row I can experiment with, although with the 23s I will probably not cram them in as much. Maybe 5x5.
Right now it's 62 in the house and 68 in the cab. The humidity in the house and cab has stayed between 38 and 49 for the last 3 days. The fans are running at 6v so I can double the speed when necessary.

Mothers: Dell Server case with 4 26w 6500k cfl's. I may be taking one out after the moms are established and summer gets here because it's already 76 in there. The carbon filter slows the fan down more than I would like.
Dimensions: Height 12.5 inches to the bulbs, 8.5 inches wide, 24 inches long inside. I am thinking 3 bonsai mothers will fit comfortably.

Clone box. I got a seedling heat mat and had 2 15w cool white bulbs in there. However after several hours the temp was still nearly room temp, so yesterday I also put in a single 14w 5000k cfl bulb. It didn't do much for the temps but I imagine with the humidity dome it will be warm enough inside the tupperware. I will use the cfl for the newly potted clones while they get established, and have room for another if necessary.
I will clone in perlite using only perlite as described by Dr. Bud.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/photo_popup.php?e=vB_Editor_001#

Medium: I mixed 1 brick of coco, nearly 1 bag of peat, 1 bag of perlite, 2 lbs of worm castings, and then a 16oz cup of lime (pellets - I missed the part about getting powdered instead). It's wetted down, covered in plastic and sitting in a closet.

Nutes: I followed Dr Bud with this as well and bought Superthrive, Schultz 10-15-10, and Alaska Fish Fert 5-1-1. I will start here, and then try to learn as I go how best to tweak it.

Water: I bought a strip test kit from the fish store, and after finding that my tap water is past 8.0, today I picked up a bottle of pH Down and am about to start experimenting to see what it takes to lower it. I will also pot up a container and do a test feeding and then test the runoff.
I also know I need to buy a digital meter at the first possible juncture.

Thoughts? Did I leave something out?
 
G

Guest 279031

Update on this thread.

You can pretty much cancel everything that I previously posted in this thread, except the anti-cab.

After having lots of growing pains and problems I have completely changed everything here. I went simple, thanks to some advice given in other threads.

I finally figured out how to germinate properly, then went through a phase just learning to keep them alive and vegging, and then today got my first successful clones. I now have a few in 2nd and 3rd week of flower.

The plants didn't like the mix I posted above, and the pc is no place to keep mothers and expect them to crank out clones. So I transplanted everything to coco hempy buckets and built a bigger mother cab. All my plants have been exploding since I switched to coco hempy buckets. I swear I think a monkey could grow weed this way.

I can now pull 6-8 clones off each plant every 2 weeks. I need 5 for my rotation. I feed using the KISS method of 1tsp per gallon for everything. My water hits 5.5 with the mix. I'll spot check a gallon once in a while and it's always the same. 5.5 and about 1.1 EC.
Simple.

I was having zero success cloning until I read the Worlds Greatest Cloner thread and 2 weeks later (today) I had 12 out of 16 clones. Now I can finally crank up the Anti-cab and put it to full use! The clones are in straight coco and I will bottom feed, eventually setting up a res and timer to automate. My goal is 5 clones per week, alternating between 2 strains. Right now they are Big Bang and Pure Kush. Once I start seeing results I will of course look to upgrade.

Also, after not smoking weed for 11 years, I recently found that smoking the leaves, even in veg, gets me quite buzzed. The first night it got me ripped. Can't wait for first harvest!
 

Growcephus

Member
Veteran
Sounds like you're getting it all sorted out bro!

I'm in a situation very similar to your own, and just flipped my 1st grow plants into the flower phase. Coco hempies and dyna gro nutes. A simple approach.

My goal was to go with a waterfarm / DWC system at first, but after researching, found that approach would probably not be best for my first attempt as I wouldn't be able to control the environment appropriately. Hempy buckets are an excellent compromise between straight up hydro and a soil grow, and have been relatively n00b friendly for me, which is good.

The only thing I've ever grown regularly prior to this grow is....well, nothing. Unless you want to count facial hair. :biggrin:

Good luck to you dude, and I hope your harvest rocks!
 

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