Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept.

[Anti]

If you ain't got a fan controller - get one. I had some troubles with low temperatures and too dry air in vegetative period which all went away with a simple controller. There is a lot to choose from and i just happen to have the one which reduces fan speed in the wrong way - but it works.

My extraction fan and the fans beneath the lights are hooked up to a temperature/humidity controlled sensor.

If temps drop below 78 the fans will shut off automatically. If humidity rises above 60% or the heat rises the fans will kick back on.

(both the temperature setting and the humidity setting can be independently adjusted.)

 

[prowler]

Grrreat

Don Quijote strikes again!

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Nice one Anti, it's great to see it all come together from all the discussing a few months ago It's looking fantastic, lets smash it!

HGO

 

[DHF]

Snuck thisun in on me Bro....Too much bullshit happenin round my place with a fuckin woman tryin ta be susie homemaker....But....she lovesta cook , smoke dope , and fuck so I ain`t bitchin too much....now....

Anti my buddy....Yas need MORE humidity till end of stretch Bro OR....You`ll experience too much transpiration/sweatin and cause increased nutrient uptake that will fuck with rootzone ph at some point in the game guaranteed , so.....

If your extraction is keepin temps within 13 degrees lights on/off then yas need ta keep fuckin with it till it`s as close as yas can get it with RH as closeta 70% as possible till they start FULL swellage and stretch is completely over.....then....

48% RH as in the pic on your hygrometer`ll be "groovy" till end of cycle Bro....Hadta throw in the Disco Ball 80`s term , and this is no shit.......somethin I`ve never told ANYONE till now......

Way back in the day my 1 and only partner when we did outside plants SWORE to my ass that Hard rock/Heavy metal would help our bitches so we setup an isolated patch with a ghetto blaster/boom box playin Mettallica and Ozzie when he was still with Black Sabbath and I shit ya`ll not......

That patch was almost DOUBLE the other ones come late November , so wecontinued that shit with all the patches for the next 3 yrs till he got on fuckin cocaine and tried ta get me busted , but I digress.....

ALL my indoor rooms from the get all the way from Krusty buckets up until I shutdown almost 3 yrs ago had Black Sabbath and Metallica CD`s CONSTANTLY runnin 24/7/365 ,and I ain`t sayin it did anything different but I got used to the shit and the plants never bitched so if it worked I`m glad to have given em a lil push fer mo dialage........after all.....

I`ve ALWAYS said it was the lil things that help dial yer shit WAAAAY more than blastin their ass with light so the moral to the story`s this in a nutshell....dial the environment....most everything else will take care of itself once ambient temps and humidity are under control....and Anti....

That`s the tightest smallest area I`ve seen done EVER and them basket stakes are gonna make yas happy ....bet on it.....just watch how much juice they get cuz you`ve got a shit ton buncha feedsites with stakes real close to each other that can tend to "over" moisten the media/substrate if not dialed in closely....but....

In late flower they`ll need more juice for swellage so once again it`ll be the runs under yer belt that make that bitch hoon and produce , so don`t get discouraged if all ain`t whatchas want this run or even the next cuz you`re gettin there , it just don`t happen overnight....so....

Nuff outta my old ass...GF`s got that good `ol country breakfast bout ta happen , and my coffee and Bubba`s got me all munchified and zoomin at the same time.....what ta do , what ta do.....anyways.....

Handle it my buddy.....I`ll be over here on my bucket.......

Peace...Freds.........

 

[Jbonez]

shit DHF, thats the first time Ive heard of "slowing transpiration"... I get what you are saying But.. Round these parts, we run low RH to keep transpiration moving as fast as we can..

We dont exactly feed full strength when its low so accumulation and ph flux aint never been an issue, and plants can pull water separate from nutrients, so we feed em light because they bring the concentration of nutes up anyways (does slowly creep down over the couse of the cycle but we adjust for that), granted coco isnt that good at retaining anything... I guess its six in one half dozen in the other, but Ima try what you are talkin about.... Does that higher RH ever effect the stretch out of curiosity? Would seem likely if transpiration is slowed, no matter veg, stretch or bloom that overall growth would diminish, but I guess if the nute concentration is higher then ours, its the same???

DHF, you make me think to much lol... But I know it aint coming out of your ass, so Im curious about what you are sayin..


ANTI, great fix for the watering issue lol... We hand water our coco airpots EVERY day.. Not to much not to little... Kinda pain in the ass, but with so many strains we gotta adjust for each of the gals...

man Im learning more just in the vert section than most forums altogether....

 

[Anti]

Anti my buddy....Yas need MORE humidity till end of stretch Bro OR....You`ll experience too much transpiration/sweatin and cause increased nutrient uptake that will fuck with rootzone ph at some point in the game guaranteed

Currently sitting at 44% humidity (i just checked) but it's getting up to 66% when the lights are off. (I'm sure if I adjust the humidity on the fan controller I could get it up higher at night, but other than standing there misting the plants from a spray bottle, I don't really know what I can do to get my humidity up while the extraction is running? Any thoughts (from any of you) would be appreciated.

The only thing I'm coming up with as I wake and bake would be to put some buckets of water in the room or something.

[edit: buy a fucking humidifier, dummy! Damn... sometimes I stupid.]

Way back in the day my 1 and only partner when we did outside plants SWORE to my ass that Hard rock/Heavy metal would help our bitches so we setup an isolated patch with a ghetto blaster/boom box playin Mettallica and Ozzie when he was still with Black Sabbath and I shit ya`ll not......

That patch was almost DOUBLE the other ones come late November , so wecontinued that shit with all the patches for the next 3 yrs till he got on fuckin cocaine and tried ta get me busted , but I digress.....

So the connection between heavy metal and smoking weed has some science behind it.

That`s the tightest smallest area I`ve seen done EVER

You just made my day, sir. Now I just need to make this fucker produce! I need to hit 1 GPW so that I can start worrying about smashing 1.5.

man Im learning more just in the vert section than most forums altogether....

Heh. Yeah. Vert is where the pioneers seem to be congregating.

Someone here said it's like a cult... Once you go vert, you never revert.

 

[CannabisFox]

Great work! really setting a benchmark here.

about the 0,5g/w im coming to the conclusion that one 600w hps would add the missing red light needed for the horticultural light-relation to produce more flowers then leafes..

what im trying to say is that you mb got the best spectrum for the plants but not for the wanted endproduct. so I think the cmh gave ur plants very much potentially bud which they didnt produce because of the missing red light.
maybe even 250w hps could boost the gpw massivly

although it may also be possible to convert that potential into bud with a more ideal clima...

good luck & have fun !

 

[bobblehead]

Snuck thisun in on me Bro....Too much bullshit happenin round my place with a fuckin woman tryin ta be susie homemaker....But....she lovesta cook , smoke dope , and fuck so I ain`t bitchin too much....now....

Anti my buddy....Yas need MORE humidity till end of stretch Bro OR....You`ll experience too much transpiration/sweatin and cause increased nutrient uptake that will fuck with rootzone ph at some point in the game guaranteed , so.....

If your extraction is keepin temps within 13 degrees lights on/off then yas need ta keep fuckin with it till it`s as close as yas can get it with RH as closeta 70% as possible till they start FULL swellage and stretch is completely over.....then....

48% RH as in the pic on your hygrometer`ll be "groovy" till end of cycle Bro....Hadta throw in the Disco Ball 80`s term , and this is no shit.......somethin I`ve never told ANYONE till now......

Way back in the day my 1 and only partner when we did outside plants SWORE to my ass that Hard rock/Heavy metal would help our bitches so we setup an isolated patch with a ghetto blaster/boom box playin Mettallica and Ozzie when he was still with Black Sabbath and I shit ya`ll not......

That patch was almost DOUBLE the other ones come late November , so wecontinued that shit with all the patches for the next 3 yrs till he got on fuckin cocaine and tried ta get me busted , but I digress.....

ALL my indoor rooms from the get all the way from Krusty buckets up until I shutdown almost 3 yrs ago had Black Sabbath and Metallica CD`s CONSTANTLY runnin 24/7/365 ,and I ain`t sayin it did anything different but I got used to the shit and the plants never bitched so if it worked I`m glad to have given em a lil push fer mo dialage........after all.....

I`ve ALWAYS said it was the lil things that help dial yer shit WAAAAY more than blastin their ass with light so the moral to the story`s this in a nutshell....dial the environment....most everything else will take care of itself once ambient temps and humidity are under control....and Anti....

That`s the tightest smallest area I`ve seen done EVER and them basket stakes are gonna make yas happy ....bet on it.....just watch how much juice they get cuz you`ve got a shit ton buncha feedsites with stakes real close to each other that can tend to "over" moisten the media/substrate if not dialed in closely....but....

In late flower they`ll need more juice for swellage so once again it`ll be the runs under yer belt that make that bitch hoon and produce , so don`t get discouraged if all ain`t whatchas want this run or even the next cuz you`re gettin there , it just don`t happen overnight....so....

Nuff outta my old ass...GF`s got that good `ol country breakfast bout ta happen , and my coffee and Bubba`s got me all munchified and zoomin at the same time.....what ta do , what ta do.....anyways.....

Handle it my buddy.....I`ll be over here on my bucket..

Funny... I planned on wiring speakers in every grow room as well...

shit DHF, thats the first time Ive heard of "slowing transpiration"... I get what you are saying But.. Round these parts, we run low RH to keep transpiration moving as fast as we can..

We dont exactly feed full strength when its low so accumulation and ph flux aint never been an issue, and plants can pull water separate from nutrients, so we feed em light because they bring the concentration of nutes up anyways (does slowly creep down over the couse of the cycle but we adjust for that), granted coco isnt that good at retaining anything... I guess its six in one half dozen in the other, but Ima try what you are talkin about.... Does that higher RH ever effect the stretch out of curiosity? Would seem likely if transpiration is slowed, no matter veg, stretch or bloom that overall growth would diminish, but I guess if the nute concentration is higher then ours, its the same???

DHF, you make me think to much lol... But I know it aint coming out of your ass, so Im curious about what you are sayin..


ANTI, great fix for the watering issue lol... We hand water our coco airpots EVERY day.. Not to much not to little... Kinda pain in the ass, but with so many strains we gotta adjust for each of the gals...

man Im learning more just in the vert section than most forums altogether....

Nutrients and water are absorbed independent of each other, except for Ca and Mg and a few others... So increasing the transpiration can cause lockout problems. How many plants grow in low rh% environments? Cannabis isn't one of them...

 

[Jbonez]

Epic fucking point bobble....

Thanks for breaking it down like that...

Edit:

I have a question, isnt this comparing apple to oranges?

For example, we are saying that the RH is obviously or naturally higher than what a home hvac system provides (33-45% i think is average) compared to higher RH outdoors correct?

Well, what about the light intensity provided by the sun that we cant match indoors without insane lighting.. Something is not consistent here... The sun IS a variable and it stands to reason that outdoors plants growing under conditions with higher RH is somehow associated with higher light intensity in regards to how fast the plant grows? I could very well be wrong my intuition is alerting me to something... Indoors we typically have lower RH, but we also have lower light intensity, so wouldnt this negate your guys point, as less light would mean less transpiration even with lower RH than what we see outdoors?.. Again, correct me if im wrong...

As for nutrients accumulating in the root zone lowering ph due to lower RH and higher transpiration rates, Im not sure how a good flush of the medium even with plain ro prior to feeding or even a res change couldnt easily tackle this debacle head on....

Im asking, if you guys say no, then Im just confused.. Like I said, I could be wrong, but stuff like this makes my brain go into overtime because something is not making sense.. HELP!

 

[DHF]

Nutrients don`t accumulate in the rootzones JB , they accumulate in the plants when made to transpire/sweat at increased levels and that`s where burnt tips and all sorts of over juicin tells are seen with imbalances and lockouts sure to occur sooner than later, but.......

Just ta make yas feel better about what God gave me free in Hell with 80-90% RH 24/7/365 , and why after dialin my environment made my monocropped bitches hoon since forever , .........Go google "Vapor Pressure Deficit"........then...

You`ll see why not necessarily "slowin transpiration" with 70 % RH till end of stretch makes for that "Circadian Rythm" for the plants ta suck juice and sweat it out for optimal nutrient uptake and dialed shit ftw IME......

Gotta try it my way Bro......Guaranteed it`ll make yas happy......and....for the record........Texas Kid was always a stubborn old head like most of us old farts , cuz we were all self taught and learned shit the hard way cuz nobody ever did this shit before us , but .....

He did a thread at the farm way back runnin elevated humidity and ambient temp levels that Krusty had preached for almost a decade and ......

Hands down TK testified his yields jumped to almost double JUST by runnin Krusty`s 70% RH till end of stretch and then as low as yas can get it below 50% till end of cycle with major air exchange to prevent airborn pathogens from takin a foothold.....so...

Onward and upward Anti.....get that cheapass humidifier and keep the damn mist away from the bare bulbs with the extra air movement....and....dial them lights on/off temps
, and this might`ve fallen between the cracks but RH ALWAYS increases lights off and don`t mean Dick in environment dialage.....

It`s the light`s on levels that make the bitches hoon , and it`s harder to keep RH levels from soaring lights off without increased airflow and or runnin de-huey`s if needed , bet on it....

Lights off RH levels is what causes powdery mildew and gray mold/budrot without proper air exchange or dehuey`s burnin up......

Krusty usedta run sulpher burners if any PM was noticed , but that`s some nasty shit and not many folks runnin 3+ lb plants anymore.....so...

Good luck...Freds.........

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I can see the difference in growth when the RH is 70-75% versus when it is 45%. The plants will grow at 45% but grow much faster at 70%. And the growth is not just longer stems with less bud sites.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Very interesting. Just want to point out here that Relative Humidity is just that, relative. It is a measure of how close the water vapor in the air is to being able to begin condensation (dew point). When water vapor is cooled the molecules slow down and stick together more easily to form condensation. So if a parcel of air is cooled without adding or subtracting any molecules of water vapor, the relative humidity will increase. The point of this being that an increase in RH during lights off when temperatures have dropped does not mean that there has been an increase in transpiration. (not saying that anyone has made this claim)

 

[DHF]

The "Relative Humidity" increases during lights off because of all the juice left in the containers/rootzones AFTER lights off that can`t HELP but evaporate and BLAST RH levels without proper air exchange to remove it since there`s no more light till 12 hrs later......

Has nothin ta do with transpiratiion , but rather dialing environment lights OFF that`s way more important than lights on IME.....

Is that more understandable....?.....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[Jbonez]

that is perfect bro... I gotcha mang, I just need to shut up and quit reading into shit so much lol... I am an autodidact, but even guys like me have shit to learn...

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

The sources for water vapor in a grow room would be:

Transpiration from plant surfaces (pulled from rootzone).
Evaporation from moist media surfaces.
Evaporation from reservoir water surfaces.
Evaporation from sprayers.
Evaporation from moist surfaces such as recently flooded trays/tables.

There is no reason that I can think of for any of these to increase during lights off.

Reducing ventilation during lights off to save energy costs and keep night time temps up would allow humidity to rise.

 

[DHF]

"The more you learn , the more you earn"......but....there IS nothin new under the sun......

Gotta figure out a wayta get you somethin hangin in between them 75 day waitin periods as in mo locations or flip rooms at each location a month or so apart in age ta pull mo harvey`s per yr cuz what you`re doin can be kicked up at least 2-3 knotches.....

All about the lil things ... believe that...

Peace...Freds.......

 

[DHF]

The sources for water vapor in a grow room would be:

Transpiration from plant surfaces (pulled from rootzone).
Evaporation from moist media surfaces.
Evaporation from reservoir water surfaces.
Evaporation from sprayers.
Evaporation from moist surfaces such as recently flooded trays/tables.

There is no reason that I can think of for any of these to increase during lights off.

Reducing ventilation during lights off to save energy costs and keep night time temps up would allow humidity to rise.

CR.....You`ve hit the nail on the head except for one thing....

Where I live RH stays in the upper 80`s-low 90 percentile and lights off EVERYTHING that wasn`t grow related invaded my environment , so for you to say that light`s off RH shouldn`t be a factor in controlling environment , I d haveta say you live in a special place and feel blessed for where you grow....

Peace...DHF........

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Didn't say it shouldn't be a factor, just trying to sort out why it is a factor here. You got it DHF. I live in a place where if I don't use skin moisturizer the skin on my thumbs cracks right down to the meat.

You're an incredible resource man. I can't thank you enough for the growing insights you've given me.

 

[bobblehead]

Jbones... The intensity of the artificial light produced by lamps can be equal to the intensity of the sun, or more or less intense... It depends on how determined u are to dial your environment. The intensity of the sun at noon at the equator is 10k foot candles. 5k fc is the most that can be used for photosynthesis. Put your plants in the 3-5kfc, no closer... Cause then ur just waisting light.

As far as humidity is concerned.... Water is the key to life. The higher the temperature goes the higher the humidity needs to be. Humidity should stay about 10% below the temperature farenheight. i.e. 75F and 65% RH. 85F and 75% RH

 

[Jbonez]

Jbones... The intensity of the artificial light produced by lamps can be equal to the intensity of the sun, or more or less intense... It depends on how determined u are to dial your environment. The intensity of the sun at noon at the equator is 10k foot candles. 5k fc is the most that can be used for photosynthesis. Put your plants in the 3-5kfc, no closer... Cause then ur just waisting light.

As far as humidity is concerned.... Water is the key to life. The higher the temperature goes the higher the humidity needs to be. Humidity should stay about 10% below the temperature farenheight. i.e. 75F and 65% RH. 85F and 75% RH

thanks bro, it still blows my mind that with all I know, the things Ive been doing, and the success Ive had that it gets better..

ya know, Ive scoured the web for this kind of insight and there is a reason I landed here, you guys are simply put, AWESOME, DHF, Bobble, Anti, HB, and anyone else killin it trying to help!


Ya know DHF, I was thinkin, that every other month biz is just a matter of opening shop on another spot.. I gotta put some thought into this decision, Afterall, Im paid and I dont even grow........ But Ive got the itch to get back to work if ya know what I mean... Just gotta leave my rookies on their own, cant be growin and knowin lol... Also, I thought thats what you were talking about with the nutes, I think I misunderstood your post coupled with a memory of running DWC an having nute concentrations go up because my plants were sweatin more.. We are on the same page now.

thanks again guys.. Ima do ya right, no worries, just aint gonna happen over night, like I said, lets get me up to speed...

I cant wait to show you my spot... Gonna do a custom built vert recirc dwc setup, or shit, maybe Ill run krusty buckets..