SOWtheSEED
Member
simple math I know but could be different in this situation?
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2 200 watt bulbs = 400 watt right
- Thread starter SOWtheSEED
- Start date
Dang, someone found you unhelpful... and I always thought it didn't hurt to ask.
Some lights are more efficient at certain wattages. A 600 watt HPS puts out more light per watt than a 1000 watt HPS. That makes 3 big bulbs less bright than 5 of the smaller bulbs even though the wattage would be the same.
LED's are another example, the efficiency falloff is really big with them. LED units come with hundreds of diodes because 2w + 2w is more than a single 4w, way more. Try and find an LED growlight with less than 20 diodes. Mine has over 300 because running more than half the rated power destroys longevity as well as efficiency.
And two 50 watt tungstens versus a 100 watt tungsten do not bear speaking of.
Nature does not know math, man knows math.
Some lights are more efficient at certain wattages. A 600 watt HPS puts out more light per watt than a 1000 watt HPS. That makes 3 big bulbs less bright than 5 of the smaller bulbs even though the wattage would be the same.
LED's are another example, the efficiency falloff is really big with them. LED units come with hundreds of diodes because 2w + 2w is more than a single 4w, way more. Try and find an LED growlight with less than 20 diodes. Mine has over 300 because running more than half the rated power destroys longevity as well as efficiency.
And two 50 watt tungstens versus a 100 watt tungsten do not bear speaking of.
Nature does not know math, man knows math.
Ballast losses are significant to factor in as well. Two lights = two ballasts. A 200W HPS ballast may lose another 100-150W on startup, and crappy industrial fixtures may never get better than that. So two 200W bulbs is actually more like 700W on startup, and 5-6 hundred continuously. Really depends on the ballast. I had a 150W HPS industrial fixture that made the room hotter than my buddy's 600W HPS grow fixture. In the case of LED and fluorescents that run many lights off one ballast, the issue is less pronounced.
One example would be T-8 HO 4' tubes. I can run 2 tubes per ballast, and I've run up to 8 fixtures in one space. Even though that's 16 tubes and 8 ballasts, the setup used significantly less power than my two 250W HPS fixtures, even though it's rated 12W less total draw. Because of the ballasts though, those T8 tubes are technically more efficient(not necessarily for growing, but in terms of pure radiance per watt).
One example would be T-8 HO 4' tubes. I can run 2 tubes per ballast, and I've run up to 8 fixtures in one space. Even though that's 16 tubes and 8 ballasts, the setup used significantly less power than my two 250W HPS fixtures, even though it's rated 12W less total draw. Because of the ballasts though, those T8 tubes are technically more efficient(not necessarily for growing, but in terms of pure radiance per watt).
serious6 said:
Take lumen output of 1000w bulb and divide by 1000. Then take lumen output of 600w bulb and divide by 600.
600's use their power more efficiently than 1000w, so you get more photons per watt.
So ten 600w (6000w total) will outshine six 1000w (6000w total.)
Hope this helps.
Two seperate lower wattage ballasts will usually be less efficient than one larger one , and cost a little more to run for the same total output.
Haveing two lights makes for more uniform growth without much turning and moveing , more leaf is in light and its easier to raise the shorter ones closer to one of the two bulbs.
Subjectively , i found 2 x 250 sodium was equivalent to one 600 sodium , mainly from being easier to get plants closer , with compact plants below a metre finished height.
And if one blows you can get by for a few days till a replacement turns up.
Biggest downside i see with 200 w HID and lower is the difficulty finding any enhanced spectrum bulbs for it , the marine ones are very expensive , the standard bulbs have a very red output and are designed more for reliability and cold start in exterior fittings than plant useable light.
Haveing two lights makes for more uniform growth without much turning and moveing , more leaf is in light and its easier to raise the shorter ones closer to one of the two bulbs.
Subjectively , i found 2 x 250 sodium was equivalent to one 600 sodium , mainly from being easier to get plants closer , with compact plants below a metre finished height.
And if one blows you can get by for a few days till a replacement turns up.
Biggest downside i see with 200 w HID and lower is the difficulty finding any enhanced spectrum bulbs for it , the marine ones are very expensive , the standard bulbs have a very red output and are designed more for reliability and cold start in exterior fittings than plant useable light.
Lammy
Member
Well I will say there is not much info in the main question. I can see how that would be unhelpful.
Is the question about math, amps used, lumen output, yield?
But to throw all of those together, my thoughts are I always heard the "600w most efficient..." routine then I did some math.
According to the sunlight catalog:
Eye Hortilux bulbs
600w=88,000 lumens (146.66 lumens /Watt)
1000w=145,000 lumens (145 lumens /Watt)
Which is more. But hardly. An extra 960 lumens out of a 600w that puts out 88,000 any way. That's a 1% gain. Consider the MSRP. 600w=$125. 1000w=$130; if your using extra 600's and you change the bulb once or twice a year any electric savings would be lost in bulbs.
10x600's @ $125=$1,250
6x1000's @ $130=$780
If you change bulbs often the 1000's should save more money.
But you say the 600's are more points of light. Well I say 1000's on movers are more points of light.
But I don't think there exists 200w hps.
So I'll say that yes 2 x 200 = 400;
Is the question about math, amps used, lumen output, yield?
But to throw all of those together, my thoughts are I always heard the "600w most efficient..." routine then I did some math.
According to the sunlight catalog:
Eye Hortilux bulbs
600w=88,000 lumens (146.66 lumens /Watt)
1000w=145,000 lumens (145 lumens /Watt)
Which is more. But hardly. An extra 960 lumens out of a 600w that puts out 88,000 any way. That's a 1% gain. Consider the MSRP. 600w=$125. 1000w=$130; if your using extra 600's and you change the bulb once or twice a year any electric savings would be lost in bulbs.
10x600's @ $125=$1,250
6x1000's @ $130=$780
If you change bulbs often the 1000's should save more money.
But you say the 600's are more points of light. Well I say 1000's on movers are more points of light.
But I don't think there exists 200w hps.
So I'll say that yes 2 x 200 = 400;
SOWtheSEED
Member
Thanks for the help guys learning something new everyday.
What lights should I use for growing 10 auto fems for 2 months and a week?
What lights should I use for growing 10 auto fems for 2 months and a week?
SOWtheSEED
Member
what if I cant get any of that fancy stuff? I just got a small home hardware centre in town.
I'm only replying because I'm finding this discussion interesting. I am not an expert at running 1000's or 600's so please don't take this the wrong way. This is just for fun/education.
In the example we're using (6000w from either 6x1000 or 10x600)
(1000w) 145,000 lumens x 6 = 870,000 lumens from 6000w
(600w) 88,000 lumens x 10 = 880,000 lumens from 6000w
============================================
880,000-870,000=10,000 "free" lumens for same wattage, PLUS more points of light
If you put your 1000w on light rails at $300 a piece you're looking at a minimum of an extra $900 worth of light rails (assuming you hang two bulbs from each one) up to $1800 worth of light rails (if you ran each bulb on its own rail).
Not to mention moving parts to break down, cables wearing out faster, etc.
So you're saving $470 every time you relamp, but you're having to add $900-1800 up front (in light movers) and still ending up with less photons hitting your plants than you would at the same wattage with the 600's.
Will those 10,000 extra lumens increase your footprint or flower density enough to make up for the difference in changing the bulbs?
You'd have to do the math.
But... to make that $470 once a year you'd only need to pull an extra ounce or two PER YEAR to make it worthwhile. (That's at $250 an ounce, btw) And I'd be willing to bet that the extra 10,000 lumens would give you more than an extra 60 grams a year.
If you're running a 60 day strain with a separate veg room you could do 5-6 harvests a year. So to make up for the $470 in relamping costs, you'd need to average an extra 9.5g to 11.4g per harvest.
This is fun!
Lammy
Member
Sowtheseed, I'd recommend ordering online. If you absolutely can't I do know people using home depot lights. Its not like it won't work. If you could at least get grow bulbs that'd be a lot better.
Anti,
I've been thinking a lot about this.
About the 10,000 extra lumens I say hang another 1000w which is far more light and it only costs $438 for a year to run it. (And it yield more than the extra 10000 lumens)
Its about $0.10 per kilowatt hour. So
$0.10 x 1 kW x 12hr x 365days=$438 to run 1000w on 12/12 for a year.
"But... to make that $470 once a year you'd only need to pull an extra ounce or two PER YEAR to make it worthwhile. (That'sat$250anounce, btw) And I'd be willing to bet thattheextra10,000 lumens would giveyou more than anextra60 grams a year."
But you could apply that logic to anything. Like you could give me $500/year if my advice helps.LOL the advice buy more lights.LOL
I agree with most of what you said about light movers. But: my friend moves 3 lights on one mover. I can get a better prices on movers. Yeah to the moving/extra parts=more head ache. But there are more parts for the sixes.
But my small experience with movers is that the plants grow different. Its not just a matter quantity but quality. The plants grow uniform and symmetrical. Rosenthal says you could yeild up to 20% more with movers.
All that being said I'm thinking of using 600's for my next project. Mainly because of the complexities of the movers when you try to move several ducted lights. I know of no way to control all movers in unison and when they are all ducted together its a logistics nightmare. With the 600's i'll put the hoods touching each other for great coverage but it wont be the same as being on movers.
I'd definitely recommend movers for a small set up. Say up to 6 lights. I'd consider not using ducted lights on a bigger set up, just to use movers but I'd spray water on the bulbs for sure.
I've been trying to think up a way to make a light mover that can move 12+ lights reliability. Maybe using threaded rod like the DIY CNC machines.
Anti,
I've been thinking a lot about this.
About the 10,000 extra lumens I say hang another 1000w which is far more light and it only costs $438 for a year to run it. (And it yield more than the extra 10000 lumens)
Its about $0.10 per kilowatt hour. So
$0.10 x 1 kW x 12hr x 365days=$438 to run 1000w on 12/12 for a year.
"But... to make that $470 once a year you'd only need to pull an extra ounce or two PER YEAR to make it worthwhile. (That'sat$250anounce, btw) And I'd be willing to bet thattheextra10,000 lumens would giveyou more than anextra60 grams a year."
But you could apply that logic to anything. Like you could give me $500/year if my advice helps.LOL the advice buy more lights.LOL
I agree with most of what you said about light movers. But: my friend moves 3 lights on one mover. I can get a better prices on movers. Yeah to the moving/extra parts=more head ache. But there are more parts for the sixes.
But my small experience with movers is that the plants grow different. Its not just a matter quantity but quality. The plants grow uniform and symmetrical. Rosenthal says you could yeild up to 20% more with movers.
All that being said I'm thinking of using 600's for my next project. Mainly because of the complexities of the movers when you try to move several ducted lights. I know of no way to control all movers in unison and when they are all ducted together its a logistics nightmare. With the 600's i'll put the hoods touching each other for great coverage but it wont be the same as being on movers.
I'd definitely recommend movers for a small set up. Say up to 6 lights. I'd consider not using ducted lights on a bigger set up, just to use movers but I'd spray water on the bulbs for sure.
I've been trying to think up a way to make a light mover that can move 12+ lights reliability. Maybe using threaded rod like the DIY CNC machines.
SOWtheSEED
Member
I found one 500 watt bulb and one 500watt halide something.. it literally says it will blow up if i touch the glass with my fingers.
SOWtheSEED
Member
then 2 500watt will do right?
1
187020
Get those auto fems cracking homie, plug in a light and hang it. Grow some dope then buy a bigger light etc
