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TWO S1 LINE PRODUCES MALES
- Thread starter Hammerhead
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so without taking into consideration the unknown background. But with what's known here. What generation are these plants again?
Does this s2/3 "male" now make s3/4 or is that considered an f2 from a selfed line etc?
If no one knows those basics then the rest of it is shooting in the dark.
Does this s2/3 "male" now make s3/4 or is that considered an f2 from a selfed line etc?
If no one knows those basics then the rest of it is shooting in the dark.
so at least my question now is how inbred is the P.P? and how was it inbred?
I like doing things outside of the box. Should be interesting what comes from them... 
Thanks for all the help Tom your a inspiration to us all.
Thanks for all the help Tom your a inspiration to us all.
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Wesos used Katsu bubba early in the project with sts made some seeds. Later Kaiki took a Pre 98 and dusted that with katsu pollen and worked over server generation's. If I understood PP has both Katsu and pre98 phenos mixed into her. I think this line is 3-5 years old now?? This is PP. Does not grow like your typical Bubba. The Phenos I have are Bubba flavor coffee.
Photo:nachilloo
Photo:nachilloo
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i'm not saying anything is wrong with the methods to create these plants.
I'm not to hip on the bubba genetic background but basically we have a S1 female that was then backcrossed in a reversed cross to its aunt?
those offspring where then in-crossed or selfed to get the plants your working with?
I'm not to hip on the bubba genetic background but basically we have a S1 female that was then backcrossed in a reversed cross to its aunt?
those offspring where then in-crossed or selfed to get the plants your working with?
is that a BC or IC ? Bubba katsu and pre98 are both the same just diferant cuts so wouldnt that be a incross?? anyway I have pp seeds from eaarly 2011 I found a male plant in this s1 line. These plants I have now are the first seeds produced from a PP s1 male that im aware of..
Quote:
Delicious and spectacular hybrid originated in US of stimulant and uplighting indica effect. It is harvested in 8-9 weeks. Sweet aromas, incence, earth with touches of mango, metalic, shampoo and Coffee. Is a fantastic high quality resin producer. Its been developed several generations from an isolated purple pheno segregated from Bubba Kush. Due giving a few mails in its offspring, line is offered as regular seeds, 10 seeds per pack but results tell about a very extremelly high average of females.
HI amigos
sorry if my words may get some confusion you know well my english is not its best somedays and first part wasnt made by me but by Wesos but think I explained more or less accurate as far as I remember from wesos chats
Katsus male and female found in S1 started
seeds popped from previous, 1 or 2 steps later joined pre98
I found from these last seeds another peculiar and unique purple lady, present mom and always same release and worked of reinforcing these unique traits as S1
I tried to go further privatelly checked new F+1 fem offspring but decided to refuse it, all good but not so unique although more stable...so went back to my original release and repeated again and again. Its same mom all the time in commercial releases, not changes at all since the beginning. Cant remember if ever privatelly someone has tried F+1 or not but commercially have not changed the Peyote Purple at all as its offspring is so rich and of high quality, despite its little variation allowed
Wish is clear, sorry again if my words trying to summarize may have made some confusion or not have been the most accurate, maybe dont know. Ask me in spanish and Ill be so precise using my words But am so glad you both enjoy the line which is the goal. Wish such male found by HH makes its best too. Very few males found but most Ive seen, not hermis under normal conditions
M. Nectar always so nice to know form you amigo, hope life goes well and you still enjoy the guerrillas ganja on
Cuidate, best everyone
kaiki
Quote:
Delicious and spectacular hybrid originated in US of stimulant and uplighting indica effect. It is harvested in 8-9 weeks. Sweet aromas, incence, earth with touches of mango, metalic, shampoo and Coffee. Is a fantastic high quality resin producer. Its been developed several generations from an isolated purple pheno segregated from Bubba Kush. Due giving a few mails in its offspring, line is offered as regular seeds, 10 seeds per pack but results tell about a very extremelly high average of females.
HI amigos
sorry if my words may get some confusion you know well my english is not its best somedays and first part wasnt made by me but by Wesos but think I explained more or less accurate as far as I remember from wesos chats
Katsus male and female found in S1 started
seeds popped from previous, 1 or 2 steps later joined pre98
I found from these last seeds another peculiar and unique purple lady, present mom and always same release and worked of reinforcing these unique traits as S1
I tried to go further privatelly checked new F+1 fem offspring but decided to refuse it, all good but not so unique although more stable...so went back to my original release and repeated again and again. Its same mom all the time in commercial releases, not changes at all since the beginning. Cant remember if ever privatelly someone has tried F+1 or not but commercially have not changed the Peyote Purple at all as its offspring is so rich and of high quality, despite its little variation allowed
Wish is clear, sorry again if my words trying to summarize may have made some confusion or not have been the most accurate, maybe dont know. Ask me in spanish and Ill be so precise using my words But am so glad you both enjoy the line which is the goal. Wish such male found by HH makes its best too. Very few males found but most Ive seen, not hermis under normal conditions
M. Nectar always so nice to know form you amigo, hope life goes well and you still enjoy the guerrillas ganja on
Cuidate, best everyone
kaiki
so the bubba and katsu where found in the same pack and are sisters?
Wesos then created selfed seeds from the bubba or grew someone elses. So lets go with kaiki and say those are the S1 generation.
It sounds that males where found in this s1 and bred out 2 generations.
S1F2 ?
That was then backcrossed to a sibling of the P1. So that is really just a back-cross I think.
So then the BX seeds made from an F2 generation of an S1?
It would seem to me at least genetically its been inbred a bit, that's all. But there seem to be multiple selfings in the same line as well.
Wesos then created selfed seeds from the bubba or grew someone elses. So lets go with kaiki and say those are the S1 generation.
It sounds that males where found in this s1 and bred out 2 generations.
S1F2 ?
That was then backcrossed to a sibling of the P1. So that is really just a back-cross I think.
So then the BX seeds made from an F2 generation of an S1?
It would seem to me at least genetically its been inbred a bit, that's all. But there seem to be multiple selfings in the same line as well.
Wasos grew out many Katsu Bubba plants and found a very nice female and male from his s1 line using sts. He then hit his katsu s1 female with the s1 male(same thing im doing now). Kaiki took it form there by adding the pre98 cut and worked over a few generations. These are the seeds we have today pre98/katsu s1. Its very confusing really I have had a few conversations about it..
well i think that is the issue.
They are not s1's you have. Selfed for sure.
Ok So Katsu Bubba is the parent to the line you are working now.
Katsu Bubba was a regular cross or selfed line?
Wesos then took this f1 or s1 and made f1s1 or s2s.
From that generation he found a male and a female and incrossed them?
so S2F1.
Kaiki then back crossed it again with reversing techniques? to the Katsu f1/s1 parent.
This was then bred for a few more generations and released to the public?
i'm sorry if i'm confused but thats what I see going on here.
They are not s1's you have. Selfed for sure.
Ok So Katsu Bubba is the parent to the line you are working now.
Katsu Bubba was a regular cross or selfed line?
Wesos then took this f1 or s1 and made f1s1 or s2s.
From that generation he found a male and a female and incrossed them?
so S2F1.
Kaiki then back crossed it again with reversing techniques? to the Katsu f1/s1 parent.
This was then bred for a few more generations and released to the public?
i'm sorry if i'm confused but thats what I see going on here.
Katsu is where it all started from it is now infused with pre98 and that is what is sold today its always been a s1 line....I will let Kaiki try and explain to ya..All of this info is in CBG forum in the Peyote Purple thread..
The original parents of the line Peyote Purple were found in Bubba Katsu S1's seeds made by Orgnkid. Wesos grew these seeds before he had any of the "clones". He found the Peyote phenotype (grandma) in those beans and a "male" similar to what we are talking about here. That was the first step in the breeding process.
it was the s1 seeds that Wesos got that produced the female and male(Possibly not a true male) . Im doing these test to confirm the male I got is a male or highly staminate intersex female. When the PPS1 X PPS1 are grown out and I get normal male female ratios then the PPS1(M) is a male...Im almost positive I will get females seeds but if I dont. We have a lot to discuss
well, not sure if that proves anything.
Previous research has shown normal sex ratios from a variety of odd sexed crosses.
back when they where developing hemp lines 40-50 years ago, they encountered similar things. But monoecious strands will revert in a few generations back to normal sex ratios.
cannabis is a rather advanced plant in terms of its sexuality. It sure is an interesting study your undertaking.
Previous research has shown normal sex ratios from a variety of odd sexed crosses.
back when they where developing hemp lines 40-50 years ago, they encountered similar things. But monoecious strands will revert in a few generations back to normal sex ratios.
cannabis is a rather advanced plant in terms of its sexuality. It sure is an interesting study your undertaking.
C
charlie garcia
Started from S1 done with Bubba Kush which produced a male
Than inbred not sure in 2 or 3 steps using different males
Crossed later to pre98 cut
Present seeds are a second S1 since original Bubba S1, previous were males and females steps. Maybe 5 generations since first S1, not sure but something like that
Hard to talk about why males here as we have been discussing in previous talks but and I repeat, not so rare question at all in today commercial circus. I am not fan of these selfing breedings at all, think there is too much abuse today too but here we are, in a ocasional chance to share an exceptional development. If you ask me, I prefer healthy males and females in this sense, I like combining more numbers and add more alelles to the puzzels in order to have a wide and richer genetic range and health. Is more "academic" as well, guess Chimera and Tom would agree, much better in many terms in the long run. But sometimes during breeding proccess of regular seeds you get into mostly males or mostly females offspring too. Masked traits, mutations or whatever may affect results. Anyhow here lets see in short term how this male found by HH affects to offspring
Keep on looking to male HH, let him go live despite you dont need him anymore but observe not signs of female. Nice pollen drop there
best
kaiki
Than inbred not sure in 2 or 3 steps using different males
Crossed later to pre98 cut
Present seeds are a second S1 since original Bubba S1, previous were males and females steps. Maybe 5 generations since first S1, not sure but something like that
Hard to talk about why males here as we have been discussing in previous talks but and I repeat, not so rare question at all in today commercial circus. I am not fan of these selfing breedings at all, think there is too much abuse today too but here we are, in a ocasional chance to share an exceptional development. If you ask me, I prefer healthy males and females in this sense, I like combining more numbers and add more alelles to the puzzels in order to have a wide and richer genetic range and health. Is more "academic" as well, guess Chimera and Tom would agree, much better in many terms in the long run. But sometimes during breeding proccess of regular seeds you get into mostly males or mostly females offspring too. Masked traits, mutations or whatever may affect results. Anyhow here lets see in short term how this male found by HH affects to offspring
Keep on looking to male HH, let him go live despite you dont need him anymore but observe not signs of female. Nice pollen drop there
best
kaiki
KiefSweat,
I would postulate that for line to revert to dioecy, it would have to first be subdioecious as apposed to monoecious.
(assuming we are speaking of the work K. Hirata et al) they were unable to repeat those results, and chalked up the former results under the category of pollen contamination. Further, being that all this was in the absence of molecular marker tech, the same room for experimental error existed then as now, ie, they were only looking at phenotypic expression - in the absence of both pollen contamination and markers, those "males" could have very well been genetic females imo. Anyway, indeed an interesting topic. -T
I would postulate that for line to revert to dioecy, it would have to first be subdioecious as apposed to monoecious.
(assuming we are speaking of the work K. Hirata et al) they were unable to repeat those results, and chalked up the former results under the category of pollen contamination. Further, being that all this was in the absence of molecular marker tech, the same room for experimental error existed then as now, ie, they were only looking at phenotypic expression - in the absence of both pollen contamination and markers, those "males" could have very well been genetic females imo. Anyway, indeed an interesting topic. -T
No I was more referring to the work of the likes of Sengsbusch and Bosca.
the technical sex of the plants here does not really interest me at the moment, I more interested to know how many acutal parents where used in the line. I can count 2 "female" siblings that seem to be the parents of this whole line.
Its also shown they have been selfed multiple times in the development of this line (Along with what seems like a "feminized" back-cross)
I know you can explain it better then I can and also understand it more, but like I said I count at least 3 generations and 3 selfings from what I gather from this breeding project.
edit did not see charlie's post. Again I see nothing wrong with what is being done, just that some interesting things are showing up so it seems to me that its obviously worth exploring to some degree.
And also confused. If you apply STS to a plant, and even if it gives you male/female offspring those are a 1st selfed generation. Selfing females from that is an s2 no?
the technical sex of the plants here does not really interest me at the moment, I more interested to know how many acutal parents where used in the line. I can count 2 "female" siblings that seem to be the parents of this whole line.
Its also shown they have been selfed multiple times in the development of this line (Along with what seems like a "feminized" back-cross)
I know you can explain it better then I can and also understand it more, but like I said I count at least 3 generations and 3 selfings from what I gather from this breeding project.
edit did not see charlie's post. Again I see nothing wrong with what is being done, just that some interesting things are showing up so it seems to me that its obviously worth exploring to some degree.
And also confused. If you apply STS to a plant, and even if it gives you male/female offspring those are a 1st selfed generation. Selfing females from that is an s2 no?
In the case of Sengbusch and Bosca I have only breifly reviewed the material, but I'd have difficulty equating a population consisting of ".1-.2% intersex" within a subidioecious (it was error on their part to refer to it as dioecious) line reverting to fully dioecious, with monoecious lines reverting in a few generations back to dioecious, this latter, is simply not happening imo.
As far as I can tell, the line (PP) has but a single ancestral parent, Pre98? If we accept that the Katsu cut was offspring of that as well. Yes I believe Charlie means S2, we're not so tough on him due to the english not being his first language thingy. Anyway, if he's otherwise unwilling to champion the case for selfing I certainly will, that some cases bring "mostly male plants" yet their offspring bring acceptable results - and all descending from a single individual, then this is certainly enough mustard for me to work with
As far as I can tell, the line (PP) has but a single ancestral parent, Pre98? If we accept that the Katsu cut was offspring of that as well. Yes I believe Charlie means S2, we're not so tough on him due to the english not being his first language thingy. Anyway, if he's otherwise unwilling to champion the case for selfing I certainly will, that some cases bring "mostly male plants" yet their offspring bring acceptable results - and all descending from a single individual, then this is certainly enough mustard for me to work with
Well they talk more about various intersexual forms and the like. And which ones are ideal to then create an ideal form of hemp, which is not what we are going for here.
But I think that this is not a new phenomena we are seeing here, and there is quite a bit of research that could explain a bit of it.
I think this could be repeated, especially if they hold some of the same breeding stock.
But I think that this is not a new phenomena we are seeing here, and there is quite a bit of research that could explain a bit of it.
I think this could be repeated, especially if they hold some of the same breeding stock.
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