What are the propellents that you speak of and why are they needed for butane? Butane is a propellent'
qwiso problem
- Thread starter bilbobonger
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What are the propellents that you speak of and why are they needed for butane? Butane is a propellent'
Trichgnomes
Member
I too would like to know more about these evil propellents you speak of, HempKat.
AFAIK, propane is the only 'propellent' added to butane canisters, and it is for a very simple reason. Propane has a relative pressure of 144 PSI, vs butane's 25. This enables gas to continue to flow from lighters even when the temperature drops below the point of butane being pressurized.
So is it the propane that turns into a neurotoxin, or is it the other propellents you speak of? Never heard of this phenomenon, so I am quite curious.
I don't know, I'm no expert on this subject. I got my information from a video posted in one of these threads but now I can't find it. Basically the guy stating it in the video was making the comment in passing and didn't really cover whether or not these propellents can be purged out or not. I'm assuming they can otherwise there would be more people preaching against BHO then there are. If so the only real risk then would be for people who do not properly purge things.
I got this information in a video I saw in one of the threads in this forum. The guy making the comment didn't specify the propellents nor did he go into why they might be needed or not. He just said that they were present in canisters of butane as a propellent and when heated to the same temps needed to vaporize marijuana they become nuero toxins. Then he went on about how to do qwiso.
Sorry I don't know the answer to that question perhaps if you find the video I saw and can contact the person stating that these propellents are there he might be able to elaborate more?
I'm guessing this questioning though is coming more from those who favor BHO and if so I also imagine it will be hard to get any of you to believe it. Which is fine, to each their own. Personally for me the only form of concentrate I find worthwhile is dry sifted resin. It has the concentrated high, no unwanted substances enter into it thru the process of sifting, it has all the smells and flavors we love and it seems to have the greatest return in terms of volume.
With BHO the biggest turn off for me was the small yield for the fairly large investment of butane needed. The friend showing me how to do BHO used three full canisters of butane on a full metal tube that he uses in his BHO extraction process. I'm not sure how much material was in there less then an ounce for sure and most likely less then a half ounce. The material being used was untouched trim (meaning no resin was sifted from it first) from a run of very resinous C-99. The yield from this amount in the tube that three canisters of butane was used on ended up being just under a gram and it just didn't seem worth it to me especially since it didn't smell or taste anything like the C-99 it came from but rather had a more generic resiny taste and smell.
I find the same to be true for ISO but to me I feel QWISO isn't as bad because it's a little less dangerous to work with. I'd still rather have dry sifted hash over ISO or BHO any day of the week.
Okay I looked a little more and finally found it, here's a link to the video and it's about half way thru where the guy doing the tutorial is asked for his thoughts on butane.
http://www.hempvisiontv.com/smokestream.html
http://www.hempvisiontv.com/smokestream.html
Sour Deez
Member
Just wanted to point out your buddy used wayyyyy to much butane, if your only running half oz of trim you only need like quarter can. Unless your talking those tiny cans, then one of those maybe. And that tube must be pretty small, cause u need to pack that shit in there tight or yield will suffer.
The flavor thing is one of the main reasons i switched from qwiso to bho, my qwiso had a generic taste at best. The bho is delicious and the smell/taste transfers from the material to the oil very well.
There is a lot of information published on this and other forums, by well intended folks, some excellent, and some erroneous and emotionally aroused by something they were told or read.
I've personally found that when it comes to actually producing supporting information, fact is much shorter than fiction, as evidence by the un-supporting information for many such erroneous premises.
I think that this forum does a good job of allowing all views to be aired, regardless of how unpopular, and even with that home court advantage, the evidence has yet to be presented supporting some of the passionate and heart felt beliefs.
My impression at this point, is that if it existed, the vehement opposition to some of the issues, would have more supportive data than just emotional drama.
As PT Barnum once noted, "The harder the sell, the poorer the product", and as Will Rogers noted, "The world is full of folks damn sure of things that ain't so."
Caveat Emptor, also comes to mind as well, because it is up to each of us to decide for ourselves
Everyone is different.
I've excluded ISO as a solvent option for years... because it's more dangerous to humans. (Saftey takes care of 'flammability' issues)
Good_KarmA
Member
If you can't find clean ISO in your area, I highly suggest A qwet run instead.
SpinLover1
Member
Dumb question I have. Amazon.com sells 99.9% pure Isopropropnyal (sp?)... Why cant you order this stuff? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...ords=isopropyl+alcohol&sprefix=isopro,aps,173
No reason that I can see, other than prefering a different process.
Well I may be way off on the amount of material he used, basically I brought by a bag full of trim that weighed about a pound. He packed the tube by hand and didn't weigh out or otherwise measure it. I'm not sure of the size of the can of butane either because it was the same size as what I've always seen in stores and I've only ever seen that size can of butane. He said that they cost $5 each if that gives you any idea of size?
So when I say a half ounce that was really just a guesstimate and it very well could have been more. If it was more however it just makes my point that much more because I'm sure the resulting BHO was only about a gram. I would agree this BHO had more/better smell and flavor then QWISO I've tried but still no where near what I got from the dried sifted hash I made from the rest of that pound of trim the same day.
Well if I were to use PT Barnum's advice then I'd have to judge this as being true since there was no sell to it at all. A question was asked and the guy answered immediately and matter of factly. You can see for yourself though since I found the video and posted a link to it at the top of this page. Judging by your reaction to my intial comment tough and then this post essentially saying "You can't believe everything you hear" I'm inclined to believe nothing I can say will ever convince you that BHO is bad for you. Which is fine since it's not my mission or goal to get anyone to change from the methods they feel comfortable with.
I've gone even further, I feel ISO is safer but that doesn't mean it's the way I use now. After trying ISO, BHO and other methods I've settled on the dry sifted hash method because it seems to preserve the most flavor and smell and to the best of my knowledge silk screens are not poisonous nor do they represent any kind of fire hazard.
I don't understand your question, if Amazon sells it then you can order it from there. Since it's been stated though that you can buy it over the counter at Safeway it seems that would be an even better option then ordering it online. Provided of course one has a Safeway accessible to them. While not as pure another option is to use Walmart which sells 91% ISO but you have to be careful because they also carry one that is 70% ISO.
Also someone once suggested to me you could take any ISO that is not pure and make it pure by adding Hydrogen peroxide to remove the water. I'm not sure if this would work though or how much to use to do this I'm just passing the suggestion on here for others to consider.
Just because someone wearing a funny hat on a u-tube video says something is so, does not make it so, even if that is the opinion that he is entitled to.
It is an old debate on this forum, so rather than getting offended, perhaps you might do more research, if you expect to be taken seriously.
As for my goal, I have no illusions of changing your mind, but instead try to not let noobies get misled by folks like you, who are damn sure of things that ain't so.
For instance, what are all the mysterious noxious chemicals your resident expert brushed lightly over, besides ethyl mercaptan?
Are you aware that ethyl mercaptan smells so bad that it is readily detectable at less than three parts per billionth and not present in the butanes typically used on this forum?
Only someone sensory deprived or brain dead could miss it long before it reached the acute oral toxicity (LD50) level of 7920 mg/kg [Mouse].
Have you considered that 3 parts per billionth is more than an order of magnitude less than 7920 parts per millionth.
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did you really sit and watch the whole video? what a couple of clowns.
Again using PT Barnums advice I'm starting to wonder about your position on BHO as being safe because you're trying to sell it so hard now. I'm not surprised you focused on the funny hat which the guy was obviously using to hide his identity somewhat. I even said to myself as I referenced that video "I bet someone focuses on the hat rather then consider what the guy has to say might have merit". Nor am I offended I merely offered that butane might not be so safe based on that video and ever since you've been trying to argue that I'm wrong rather then provide substantive arguements about how safe bho is. As for the newbies if you're really so concerned for their welfare why are you worrying? If my posts have an ultimate message that newbies are going to latch onto it is that ISO and BHO are unsafe, disappointing and unnecessarily expensive and that one should go with dry sifted hash which without a doubt is safer for you then ISO or butane as no solvents are used. Then again according to you nobody is going to take me serious because I don't do enough research so if that's true then you need not try and frame yourself as some fearless protector of newbies swooping in to save them from the evil postings of Hempkat
Nope, the more you post the more you come across as someone who really just doesn't want to hear their favorite form of extract might not be as good for them as they want to believe. Yeah just because some guy in a funny hat says something on a youtube video it doesn't mean he's correct but guess what? It doesn't mean he's wrong either. In fact since you've now gone out of your way to say nobody on these forums uses butane with the offending additives and how easy they are to detect and how little of them there actually are in a can of butane, it suggests that there is merit to what the guy in the funny hat was saying. Otherwise why would people avoid butane with those additives and why would someone like you would have researched it to the point of knowing how many parts per billion of the stuff does butane contain?
Oh and by the way I never said the guy was an expert. So stop putting words in my mouth. Nor did he in the video say there were all these other mysterious noxious chemicals. All he said was that mixed in with the butane (which he did acknowledge that butane is fairly natural and as such relatively safe) were the mercaptans and it were those when heated that made BHO unsafe for consumption in his opinion, so stop putting words in his mouth too. You're the only one bringing up mysterious noxious chemicals in this discussion.
As for parts per billion if one consumes something that turns to neuro toxins during the act of consuming then what is the acceptable parts per billion of neuro toxins for humans to consume? I'm inclined to think there is no acceptable level rather then saying to myself "well it's just a very tiny amount so why worry?"
D
dramamine
Again using PT Barnums advice I'm starting to wonder about your position on BHO as being safe because you're trying to sell it so hard now. I'm not surprised you focused on the funny hat which the guy was obviously using to hide his identity somewhat. I even said to myself as I referenced that video "I bet someone focuses on the hat rather then consider what the guy has to say might have merit". Nor am I offended I merely offered that butane might not be so safe based on that video and ever since you've been trying to argue that I'm wrong rather then provide substantive arguements about how safe bho is. As for the newbies if you're really so concerned for their welfare why are you worrying? If my posts have an ultimate message that newbies are going to latch onto it is that ISO and BHO are unsafe, disappointing and unnecessarily expensive and that one should go with dry sifted hash which without a doubt is safer for you then ISO or butane as no solvents are used. Then again according to you nobody is going to take me serious because I don't do enough research so if that's true then you need not try and frame yourself as some fearless protector of newbies swooping in to save them from the evil postings of Hempkat
Nope, the more you post the more you come across as someone who really just doesn't want to hear their favorite form of extract might not be as good for them as they want to believe. Yeah just because some guy in a funny hat says something on a youtube video it doesn't mean he's correct but guess what? It doesn't mean he's wrong either. In fact since you've now gone out of your way to say nobody on these forums uses butane with the offending additives and how easy they are to detect and how little of them there actually are in a can of butane, it suggests that there is merit to what the guy in the funny hat was saying. Otherwise why would people avoid butane with those additives and why would someone like you would have researched it to the point of knowing how many parts per billion of the stuff does butane contain?
Oh and by the way I never said the guy was an expert. So stop putting words in my mouth. Nor did he in the video say there were all these other mysterious noxious chemicals. All he said was that mixed in with the butane (which he did acknowledge that butane is fairly natural and as such relatively safe) were the mercaptans and it were those when heated that made BHO unsafe for consumption in his opinion, so stop putting words in his mouth too. You're the only one bringing up mysterious noxious chemicals in this discussion.
As for parts per billion if one consumes something that turns to neuro toxins during the act of consuming then what is the acceptable parts per billion of neuro toxins for humans to consume? I'm inclined to think there is no acceptable level rather then saying to myself "well it's just a very tiny amount so why worry?"
Seems strange to attack the guy who's actually quoting facts and numbers, rather than making vague claims. I'm sure you're aware, but there are toxins in many things we ingest. The dose is the poison, so it's valuable to quantify these things.
