Q about Aphids and Coco

[TripleDraw27]

I have done a few cycles now with coco, this most recent round had a pretty bad issue with root aphids, gives me the fucking willies thinkin about it. I thought about this earlier on the freeway and was just curious what other Soil to Coco growers have expierenced with these a-holes.

What I was wondering was, just enviroment wise for the RA..
Would coco be a more ideal enviroment for them to live? My guess is yes because of the dampness...but I am unsure.
And secondly, would Soil be better off due to the good predators that exists in ones soil and keep the RA's at bay..more or less.

And guys who have gone from soil to coco who have had aphid issue, has it arised more in soils or your coco?

Yes for sure I have RA and the winged mofos as well. Anyways, I hope I was clear enough. This is by no means a coco hate thread lol, i love the stuff more than anything I have used yet. I am just curious of the two mediums which one would thrive more. I know moisture is a big roll here, so I was leaning to coco...I dont know! Just never had them before ugh...

 

[eman resu]

I'm not sure which environment they prefer more, but a thick layer of perlite on the top of either medium seems to keep them away for me. Have you tried perlite? Some people use sand instead.

 

[InMigraineHell]

Mosquito dunks crumbled on top the soil work great for keeping all larvae out of the soil. Them and gnats seem to like the soft coco more.

 

[MrBill1969]

I've had great luck using beneficial nematodes in the pots. A single dose will last all grow as long as you don't use insecticide or food grade diatomaceous earth.

The DE alone has worked well this winter, but spring and the outdoor bugs coming in will tell the tale. I'm a great fan of minimal chemistry.

Peace

 

[Granger2]

Triple,
It's important to specify *root* aphids because aphids [above ground] are a completely different and a much easier to solve problem.

Mosquito dunks won't do anything to root aphids, but work for fungus gnats.

On the "What's up with my roots" thread many things were tried, but good success was had with nematodes provided you use viable ones. The combination of todes and beneficial fungi Botanigard or Met 52 has been quite successful.

The consensus on that thread was that root aphids are coming as an added bonus with the coco. Most coco comes thru Europe, and European grapevines are grafted onto American root stock because the French wine industry was nearly wiped out in the 1860's by root mofo aphids. They're coming in bricked and moist loose coco in bags.

I'm starting the next round and I'm doing a soak with insecticide soap [UConn Ag showed that it killed nearly 100%, which was as good as any insecticide and better than most]. I'll then thoroughly flush the soap out, then give the coco a starter feed with CalMag, transplant, apply Botanigard, followed in a week or so with 10, yes 10, million todes [ordered online, rather than buying them locally].

I'll do follow up treatments about half way thru. I know this works.

As far as soil being less hospitable, don't know. I do know that if you have had root aphids, you've got them now, so you'll need to take the same precautions or there's a good chance you'll have an outbreak in either medium.

Last crop, being flushed and harvested now, I knocked them out, the plants made an impressive come back. They were gorgeous, and right after 12/12 they yellowed overnight. Quite a setback. They again recovered, but yield was affected by a lot.

The key is to keep the little bastards off. I want my todes to starve to death. Good luck. -granger

 

[TripleDraw27]

The consensus on that thread was that root aphids are coming as an added bonus with the coco. Most coco comes thru Europe, and European grapevines are grafted onto American root stock because the French wine industry was nearly wiped out in the 1860's by root mofo aphids. They're coming in bricked and moist loose coco in bags.

INTERSTING! Thanks for the info and cliff notes from that other thread too. I did specify but I abreviated with RA. I also said I had their winged buddies as well. Regardless, I think im going to try your method and read that root thread.

The cocO I am using is B-Cuzz, and it makes me sick thinking those little dudes are in it from the get go! FFFF

So with a new batch of coco for next cycle, flush with everyone you mentioned, then rinse, then start light feeds basically. None the less , ill follow your lead.

Other dudes who posted, thanks...Illl look into these nematodes and other things you dudes mentioned.

Thanks alot

Trips

 

[Granger2]

Triple,
Here are two good sources online for todes and other beneficials.
http://www.buglogical.com/
http://www.arbico-organics.com/

And for Botanigard. http://www.bioworksinc.com/index.php

BTW, you may have better luck, but I could only find Insecticide Soap in either pints or 2.5 gallon. No gallons. I ended up buying a 2.5 gallon at a local wholesale horticulture supply for $67. I better mention that the standard dilution rate of 2.5 oz/gal will burn roots, so I'm only planning to use it only as a pretreat. Other notes-use RO or similar with soap. Soap also removes the waxy secretion that root aphids leave behind which slows plant recovery. UConn said an immersion for 15 minutes gave a near complete kill. Rather than an immersion, I plan to pour soap solution thru the coco more than once, then let the pots w/coco sit in the runoff for a few hours, then drain and flush. Good luck. -granger

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

I have asked a few times, but still not got a reply, has anybody had RA problems who is using a layer of DE ?

 

[SeaMaiden]

I have done a few cycles now with coco, this most recent round had a pretty bad issue with root aphids, gives me the fucking willies thinkin about it. I thought about this earlier on the freeway and was just curious what other Soil to Coco growers have expierenced with these a-holes.

What I was wondering was, just enviroment wise for the RA..
Would coco be a more ideal enviroment for them to live? My guess is yes because of the dampness...but I am unsure.
And secondly, would Soil be better off due to the good predators that exists in ones soil and keep the RA's at bay..more or less.

And guys who have gone from soil to coco who have had aphid issue, has it arised more in soils or your coco?

Yes for sure I have RA and the winged mofos as well. Anyways, I hope I was clear enough. This is by no means a coco hate thread lol, i love the stuff more than anything I have used yet. I am just curious of the two mediums which one would thrive more. I know moisture is a big roll here, so I was leaning to coco...I dont know! Just never had them before ugh...

I have experienced root aphids in both pure perlite hempy tubs (OD grow) as well as coir. When I got them I thought they were fungus gnats. I tried my usual FG controls--Mosquito Dunks, diatomaceous earth, Azamax, a layer of sand, a layer of (new in the first case) perlite--and NOTHING WORKED.

That's your first diagnostic, in my opinion.

That grow ended up trashed at the very end, the bud became infected with rot and so I had to destroy the crop. The 2nd time I experienced them was indoors in a coir+rice hulls grow, SoG style, so I had lots and lots of individuals to watch (once I accepted that what they were was root aphids). The final nail in that coffin was rock solid genetics going hermie on me, that's what convinced me.

In any event, I have only used Spectracide with Triazicide to success, and it was a total success. Others have not had success with it, as is true of every other treatment I've investigated in terms of efficacy. With these little bitches we're after a 100% success rate, and what I had to do to get that was flood my tables with something like 30mls/gal of Spectracide w/Triazicide for several hours, about 2" up the sides of the pots (1gal), as well as spraying the room(s) and adjacent areas.

I hit on that after using Bayer T&S at high rates the same way to no success. I even tried DiPel (which is, IIRC, a concentrated version of Bt or Bti..?) to no success.

To reiterate, others have experienced no success using Triazicide, while experiencing success using other methods. I have been posting a paper that discusses kill rates (efficacy) using a hot water dip, for controlling Phylloxera that infect grape stocks, however, IIRC grapeman reports that it's not as successful in the field as in the study, and others have killed lots of their own cannabis stock trying it out.

I have ONE person on another forum reporting that a 5min dip in 120*F water, instead of 125*F water, successfully kills them without killing well rooted cannabis stock. I think using high temp dips on cannabis needs further experimentation, which I can't (read: won't) because I eliminated my infestation and don't plan on becoming reinfected.

A couple of interesting asides:

First, the initial infestation was not only outdoors, it was in PURE PERLITE. So, infestations absolutely being vectored by coir? Not so likely, IMO.

Second, at the same time as the perlite hempy tub grow, I had soil plants going, using organic soil food web techniques, experienced NOTHING. Not a hiccup. Not a burp.

RAs make FANTASTIC vectors for other diseases that are in turn extremely difficult to eradicate, where they otherwise would not normally be so difficult, such as powdery mildew.

​

None of this is to say that others experiences may not be different, but this is my own direct experience, and I was indeed successful in eradication. I prefer organic methods to chemical methods that encourage resistance or total eradication of biology, when and wherever possible (emphasis on "possible").

 

[TripleDraw27]

Second, at the same time as the perlite hempy tub grow, I had soil plants going, using organic soil food web techniques, experienced NOTHING. Not a hiccup. Not a burp.

SeaMaiden - Organic soil food web tech? Is this mean with beneficials etc?

You know I suspected I had RAs after two cycles of hermies and weak growth, now im just overrun, very excited to clean my room.

Thank you for the good info SM.

Im just sort of bummed cause I really dig coco alot, the one thing I didnt do with coco is put any of these todes or other live good guys. Something I assumed not to do in Coco.
Next cycle, im going to figure out how to clean the coco, with the soap stuff Granger mentioned, or something similar.

After looking at Matrixs grow and his praying mantis, think that would be rather cool. Although I scream like a bitch when I see a large insect ...Monster Bug wars....fuck that.

Anyway thanks guys for putting in the time to write that stuff up.

ty!

 

[SeaMaiden]

Yes, with beneficials. But you must remember that being an outdoor grow meant that I had EVERYTHING, not just what I felt needed to be inoculated.

I would suggest steam or oven sterilizing the coir, use HEAT, it's their true enemy. Treat the ENTIRE area and surrounds if possible.

 

[MrBill1969]

Great stuff SeaMaiden. And a tip o'the hat for your local political work!

 

[puff adder]

I grow in coco. I have gotten RA's in my rooms for a year or 2 now. So far, doses of IMID (Bayer Tree and Shrub) have knocked them down enough to still see good results, but this has never completely rid my rooms of RA's. I always find a flyer or 2 late in flower.

To date, IMID, and root drenches of Azamax have kept them at bay.

I recently bought and tried MET52, used it in my rooms when I potted up. In those rooms, I have yet to see any RA's, and only see one or 2 fungus gnats,,,so far.

Usually, I see an explosion of fungus gnats and find RA's at the same time, it seems the RA's cause root death and then the fungus gnats set in, in force.

Bayer tree and Shrub has changed their formula, it used to be 1.47% IMID, and also contained some nutes, and used at 7-10ml/gal it has worked well for me, used in veg and again at week 1. Now, it has less IMID, and some other contact killer, so I have switched to "Annual" brand Tree and Shrub, which has 1.47% IMID, and nothing else.

 

[TripleDraw27]

I am having issues finding met52. my local Hydro turd saids its illegal in cali, I took that with a grain of salt. I googled, and found a Cali rep so I will email him. Id like to just pick some up cause new cycle is very soon.

Im going to call around.

 

[Guest 88950]

i had RA's in my coco...........got them from another icmag member when i held a few veggin girls during a move........my mistake for not quarrentining them.


i dont like using pesticides in my flower room so i top dressed alot of powder DE, dropped temps to below 73f and lowered rh to ~30%........i let my coco get really dry too.

my flowering girls barely yielded anything......sucks

i run prepetual so the RA took a while to beat and they found my veg cab.........i lost several strains and at a last ditch effort to save my cut of Chemstone i transplanted her from her solo cup of coco to 100% FRESH WORM CASTINGS..........she bounced back, the RA's died....i then tranmsplanted everything else into a 65/35 mix of coco / worm castings.


member ZOR posted that something in the WC breaks down the outer shell of RA's.......i had already transplanted my chem when i read his post and i saw 1st hand that RA's dont like wc....his post confirmed my observations.

good luck

 

[ChaChaChiba]

The coco is said to have the beneficial bacteria to deter bugs, mites and all those devils. I'm thinking your growing a clone from a clone from a clone and so on that caused the parasite issues.

 

[ScrubNinja]

I got rid of my (coco forum verified) RA in straight coco with one hit of imid. Since then I usually add a lot of perlite and/or diatomaceous earth to the mix and haven't had RA or fungus gnats since, for what that's worth.

 

[Zumie]

I have tried simply using the Dia Earth and unfortunately it is not enought to stop the little bastards from wrecking shop...IMO no holds barred when it comes to RAs or any other little bastard bug looking for a free meal on my gals. I use a pre-emptive bombing before each round, a dose of DA on the top of my coco, and keep the 20% concentrated (mallet maybe) imid on hand for nuclear winter on those beeyaches when theey rear their ugly heads in any sort of numbers. that does them solid.