A
astra007
i corrected my post but there are pro's and con's to this. where do you get the 3600w from? i think the only solution here is to buy 1 and see what the power bill says.
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Use 2000w to produce 4000w....
- Thread starter joe fresh
- Start date
So, the solution to electronic ballasts on CMH bulbs is buy an expensive one (I'm assuming high quality electronic ballasts aren't cheap)..
They're free as in you don't pay for them, but there's always a cost, remove the energy from the air and the wind will be less, which means weather disruptions, pollution hanging around more, and lots of other possibly unpredictable and unintended consequences.
The same thing applies to sunlight, remove the energy and it won't heat up the ground, meaning less movement of air currents, etc.
There is no free lunch, end of the story.
Hmmmm.... So the windfarm at Altamont Pass stopped the winds in the area? Lumber drying with prevailing winds in Weed for the last 100 years has stopped the wind in the I5 corridor? Solar electrical panels will counteract global warming?
Tapping into these forms of energy utilizes such a tiny portion of it that the impact is inconsequential. Bizarre argument.
its not that bizarre an arguement actually,, forests and their effect on weather as well as other things like mountains for example are considered by professionals as a significant part of systems including their effects on removing energy from the air,,
but when you consider all the trees that have been cut down that arent able to take that energy out through friction,, then wind farms pale in comparison,, but really we need more trees,,
off topic,,,,
but when you consider all the trees that have been cut down that arent able to take that energy out through friction,, then wind farms pale in comparison,, but really we need more trees,,
off topic,,,,
A windmill, solar panel, or even windfarm is scarcely comparable to a forest or a mountain. When the sun is shining on the western U.S., how much of an impact do you think even hundreds of 6 square foot solar panels would possibly have, particularly when the solar energy is still present but simply relocated by about 5 feet? It's like snipping one hair on your head and considering it a haircut.
oh i agree,, i was referring to the hundreds of thousands of hectares of forest that has been removed from the earth over the last few hundred years,,
that isnt like cutting a hair from your head, in terms of effects on the global weather system,,
photons hitting the earth (or not) are a totally different thing for the most part though its all energy coming from the same place that has to go into a self balancing/regulating system,,
i dont like windmills at all, but enough of them would be comparable to a forest in terms of removing energy from the wind,,,
that isnt like cutting a hair from your head, in terms of effects on the global weather system,,
photons hitting the earth (or not) are a totally different thing for the most part though its all energy coming from the same place that has to go into a self balancing/regulating system,,
i dont like windmills at all, but enough of them would be comparable to a forest in terms of removing energy from the wind,,,
I'm not really seeing where windmills do that. To me it's more like they create energy using the wind to be the driving force. I mean if what you're suggesting is true then we should be able to build windfarms just off the base of the Santa Ana Mountains and not only get energy but stop the Wild Fires associated with Santa Ana winds.
A windmill recovers a tiny amount of the kinetic energy contained in the wind that blows across it , hydro systems are vastley more efficient with the higher density and energy content of moveing water.
Modern small hydro generators work well with a low head , a tiny stream on your land could well be a better option in many cases than wind , build a pond as a battery and generate on demand at 240 volts AC or whatever.
If the land contours allow it , beats every other option i can see , financially and in its environmental and visual impact and reliability , well within DIY skills.
Modern small hydro generators work well with a low head , a tiny stream on your land could well be a better option in many cases than wind , build a pond as a battery and generate on demand at 240 volts AC or whatever.
If the land contours allow it , beats every other option i can see , financially and in its environmental and visual impact and reliability , well within DIY skills.
E
el dub
I'm pretty sure hydro just needs 80' of drop to do the trick.
lw
lw
[B^^^^]I agree!^^^^[/B]
It is something to keep in mind. There is no problem using oil and coal in small amounts either. You start powering a modern world with those fuels and you start seeing the problems.
Are you saying that there is no limit to the amount of energy we could extract from the wind? That no matter how much energy we extract, the winds will still blow?
It is when a person considers the minuscule amount of energy we obtain from these things, but if they started to seriously tap into these energy sources, you would see changes. I think maybe like a half of a percentage of the energy used in the US comes from these sources.
BTW, hydro power, ones that can actually provide serious amounts of energy, need you to dam up huge rivers. Extend the analogy to sunlight, wind, etc.
"Extending the analogy" to either solar or wind isn't logically possible. Putting a dam on a river blocks up the entire flow - a windmill will extend perhaps 30'-50' into the air, might be up to 20' or so wide, and only marginally disrupts the airflow that powers it. Even if there are a great number of them and they are placed closely together, the wind currents extend several thousands of feet above them. A bank of solar panels may shade a tiny portion of the earth, but certainly not as effectively as any kind of a building or almost any other type of structure. As the sun moves, the shadowed area changes, and the shadowed area is still subject to radiant heat as well as absorbing heat from the uncovered, adjacent ground.
Small and micro hydro generators can work well on as little as a metre of head , if stream is large enougth it needs no head at all.
The PDF from this site is really worth reading if considering solar , but have water on the land , found under links.
www.cleanenergysolutions.co.uk
Seems a realistic apraisal of what is possible , lower payback time than solar and more DIY freindly.
The old family house in Wales was still twenty miles off grid when i grew up there , a dozen houses and a farm were powered by an undershoot water wheel on a low head , got new brushes and bearings every decade and it was rewound once since fitted secondhand in the 1930,s
The original 10 kw 240 v still being generated barely powers the farmhouse alone now with the vast increase of usage , but pretty close to free over the lifespan of such simple and reliable kit.
The PDF from this site is really worth reading if considering solar , but have water on the land , found under links.
www.cleanenergysolutions.co.uk
Seems a realistic apraisal of what is possible , lower payback time than solar and more DIY freindly.
The old family house in Wales was still twenty miles off grid when i grew up there , a dozen houses and a farm were powered by an undershoot water wheel on a low head , got new brushes and bearings every decade and it was rewound once since fitted secondhand in the 1930,s
The original 10 kw 240 v still being generated barely powers the farmhouse alone now with the vast increase of usage , but pretty close to free over the lifespan of such simple and reliable kit.
Last edited:
If humans really wanted to get serious about peace and prosperity we could simply build massive solar arrays IN SPACE.
There was a NASA proposal in 2003 or so about building a space elevator. Costs of building and maintaining the elevator were in the 15-20 billion range. (Part of this cost would be due to development and startup costs. Subsequent elevators could be built for 9 billion each.) Space elevator would lower the cost of sending satellites, space station modules and cargo from around $4,000 per lb. to $100 per lb.
Think of what we just spent over 10 years in Afghanistan and Iraq, or what we gave away to the banks just a couple of years ago? For so much less than that we could create a whole new platform for economic and scientific growth. But we'd rather fight with Iran about their nuclear capabilities while we sit on the largest nuclear and biological arsenal on the planet.
We could do a ton of things if there were a will to doing them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator_economics
There was a NASA proposal in 2003 or so about building a space elevator. Costs of building and maintaining the elevator were in the 15-20 billion range. (Part of this cost would be due to development and startup costs. Subsequent elevators could be built for 9 billion each.) Space elevator would lower the cost of sending satellites, space station modules and cargo from around $4,000 per lb. to $100 per lb.
Think of what we just spent over 10 years in Afghanistan and Iraq, or what we gave away to the banks just a couple of years ago? For so much less than that we could create a whole new platform for economic and scientific growth. But we'd rather fight with Iran about their nuclear capabilities while we sit on the largest nuclear and biological arsenal on the planet.
We could do a ton of things if there were a will to doing them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator_economics
No I'm saying that wind farms such as we have them today do not extract so much energy from the air as to change weather patterns. They are not stopping the wind nor are they altering the wind's source, they aren't even really pulling energy from the wind but rather wind makes them move and that movement is what generates energy. A windmill probably has even less of an impact on the wind then a tree of similar size because of the fact the blades move.
