soooo many people on drugs

[Truthman]

drugs are not bad.

the problem is that some drugs are illegal, therefore black markets control them. The groups who profit from this are

-the police/prison industry
-drug cartels , dealers, and producers
-pharmaceutical companies

There are also other problems associated with the War on Drugs:

-the high cost of black market drugs forces addicts to rob and steal, or sell sex.
-health concerns caused by sharing of needles
-stigma associated with drug use means few addicts seek treatment
-millions of nonviolent people are imprisoned.
-unknown drug purity
-dangerous methods of production (trailer park meth cooks)


instead of demonizing drugs, people should support legalization. it would bring many positive changes.

Drugs are a bad thing when it is so potent it is causing problems which drugs are doing. Nothing in nature is like these drugs and they are causing problems. When I state drugs are a problem I'm referring to substances that are man made, including alcohol, and not natural because I can't think of anything that is whole and not processed that causes problems that people take for pleasure and is easily obtainable like plants and mushrooms. If you notice the things that can cause problems like cacti and mushrooms are not easily obtainable on a consistent basis and in extremely large quantities, especially cacti considering how long it takes to grow, like say a cannabis plant which tells me nature knows what it's doing.


All the other things you mentioned is from a lack of self discipline because the people who control the industries you mentioned have no self discipline or they would think of better ways to fix our problems but they take the easy way out which comes from lack of self discipline. Discipline involves problem solving also not just restraint of doing something. I also think the people who use tend to have lack of self discipline also because if you know the system is set up for you to fail and the drugs themselves fuck you up health wise mentally and physically, why play with certain drugs when we know now what they do. This isn't the '60's and '70's when people didn't know how bad drugs really were so I can't just blame the big guys for the problems. Nonusers are at fault too, even the people who don't teach kids the difference in drugs and how to decide what you do and don't do and how to do it. All these things come from self discipline because you need discipline to control your emotions to talk about all these things and not just say "fuck it don't do drugs"

 

[Duplicate]

When I state drugs are a problem I'm referring to substances that are man made, including alcohol, and not natural because I can't think of anything that is whole and not processed that causes problems that people take for pleasure and is easily obtainable like plants and mushrooms. If you notice the things that can cause problems like cacti and mushrooms are not easily obtainable on a consistent basis and in extremely large quantities, especially cacti considering how long it takes to grow, like say a cannabis plant which tells me nature knows what it's doing.

Tell that to the poppy field in my backyard.

 

[Shcrews]

Drugs are a bad thing when it is so potent it is causing problems which drugs are doing. Nothing in nature is like these drugs and they are causing problems.

this is incorrect.. a Drug cannot be bad, just as a rock, plant, or animal cannot be bad. The problems associated with illicit drugs stem largely from their illegal status, not to mention the social conditions which cause people to use them irresponsibly .

Rather than saying "drugs are a bad thing" perhaps we should look at ways to minimize the risks of drug use.

obviously prohibition has not helped. the drugs are here to stay. It is up to us as a society to deal with them properly rather than making broad generalizations.

you say "nothing in nature is like these drugs", well guess what; we ARE nature. the earth is nature, as is everything on it. this is not fiction, and you will not get rid of EVIL DRUGS simply by condemning their use.

 

[bench warmer]

soooo many people on drugs

IME, doctor prescribed drugs can be very bad.

 

[Shcrews]

set and setting , guys, set and setting.

 

[Truthman]

Tell that to the poppy field in my, backyard.

Poppy plants aren't bad for you in fact the seeds are nutritious. It's man scraping the pod and using the toxic sap, which the plant makes to prevent it's death from being eaten before it matures, and converting the substances into opiates, that are giving it a bad name. So I wouldn't call poppy plant drugs.

 

[Bong Clown]

Nothing in nature is like these drugs

Datura, coca, poppies, khat, TOBACCO, etc...

Poppy plants aren't bad for you in fact the seeds are nutritious. It's man scraping the pod and using the toxic sap, which the plant makes to prevent it's death from being eaten before it matures, and converting the substances into opiates, that are giving it a bad name. So I wouldn't call poppy plant drugs.

No conversion is necessary. You can just eat the pods if you want.

I guess bananas aren't a plant based food because you have to peel them?

Also, I have trouble believing opiates are a way of discouraging feeding. If they were, you'd never see a junky in a pharmacy again.

 

[Truthman]

this is incorrect.. a Drug cannot be bad, just as a rock, plant, or animal cannot be bad. The problems associated with illicit drugs stem largely from their illegal status, not to mention the social conditions which cause people to use them irresponsibly .

Rather than saying "drugs are a bad thing" perhaps we should look at ways to minimize the risks of drug use.

obviously prohibition has not helped. the drugs are here to stay. It is up to us as a society to deal with them properly rather than making broad generalizations.

you say "nothing in nature is like these drugs", well guess what; we ARE nature. the earth is nature, as is everything on it. this is not fiction, and you will not get rid of EVIL DRUGS simply by condemning their use.

I feel drugs are bad meaning not good for long term use and the examples you gave all have reasons why they can be bad but notice how they are natural and always been on this earth whereas pharmaceutical drugs haven't. Yes, social conditions do contribute but remember I stated self discipline and knowing what you're up against to make wise decisions.

Hard, processed, Drugs are NOT natural so I don't understand comparing them to us and everything else that has been here for AT LEAST A FEW THOUSANDS OF YEARS, and you will not get rid of them because money is to be made from making them and they do help in the short term with strong problems BUT they are not pushed for short term along with rehabilitation physically and mentally. They are pushed to be the end all and be all. So demonizing them will help a lot of people from falling prey but knowledge of them also helps to understand why they are demonized which is why I stated and explained self discipline is important in my previous post.

 

[Truthman]

Datura, coca, poppies, khat, TOBACCO, etc...

No conversion is necessary. You can just eat the pods if you want.

I guess bananas aren't a plant based food because you have to peel them?

Also, I have trouble believing opiates are a way of discouraging feeding. If they were, you'd never see a junky in a pharmacy again.

You can eat the pods and end up being constipated, throw up and not want to do anything productive. If that isn't a sign that it isn't meant to get high with then I don't know what to tell you. Plus the plant will grow the flowers and no more resin so that is another clue that it isn't made to get high with.

A junky most likely wants heroin plus if you live in the city poppy pods aren't everywhere and most junkies live in the cities.

Bananas have a rough flesh to protect the soft starch so that's it's way of protecting the meat of the fruit. Poppies are a small herb and need something potent to effect the nervous system to discourage use before maturity to make you not want to eat it. They both are trying to protect themselves before maturity but doing it in different ways.

I don't know many people getting high off of Datura because it is known how bad the high is. Only time I've heard of it being used was with witches who wanted to use it for hallucinations and even then they knew how deadly it can be and used it cautiously so humans know not to play with it but other animals might not have a problem with it. In fact birds eat it with very little problem. Give them a man made drug and I doubt this would be the case

Coca is not a problem it's the processing of the coca leaves to extract the cocaine which is around one percent of the leaf.

Khat also is only causing a problem from it's constant use but i never heard of people sucking dick, killing and chewing khat nonstop that they abandon their kids.

Tobacco is a problem because of the fertilizers in it and also the additives and the excess smoking of it. Plus I feel people who are abusing it are low in niacin being that niacin and nicotine are so similar and effects the same receptors in the body.

 

[Bong Clown]

You can't be serious - tobacco is harmful because of what fertilizers are used? What about the nicotine?

Tobacco kills 443,000 people every year. That's more than twice that of all synthetic pharmaceutical and illegal drugs combined.

You can get an intensely pleasurable high from consuming poppy pods. Some prefer it to pharmaceutical grade morphine. And it is more addictive for sure...

I think it's far more likely the opiates encourage consumption by animals so that they litter the seeds everywhere in their dung.

You can definitely wreak havoc on your health by overusing coca leaves, poppy tea, or chewing too much khat. It just takes more effort to kill yourself than with the concentrated substances because you need to consume a greater volume of material.

Datura is more popular than I'd like to believe...

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Datura.shtml

 

[bombadil.360]

this is incorrect.. a Drug cannot be bad, just as a rock, plant, or animal cannot be bad. The problems associated with illicit drugs stem largely from their illegal status, not to mention the social conditions which cause people to use them irresponsibly

quoted for truth.


also, drugs, in general, specially entheogens such as our lovely herb, mescaline, psylocibin, amongst the many others; can become a danger to the user when the user lacks talent; for a real world example of this just look at the unintelligent pitiful bastards using cannabis and getting psychotic episodes as a result.

it is amazing, but even to drive a car properly you need a certain amount of talent; and sadly, this is a world where talent is lacking; just look at our prohibition laws, designed by the untalented to try protect themselves from the great and infinite world that envelops us all; little fear-filled critters.

 

[Shcrews]

I feel drugs are bad meaning not good for long term use and the examples you gave all have reasons why they can be bad but notice how they are natural and always been on this earth whereas pharmaceutical drugs haven't. Yes, social conditions do contribute but remember I stated self discipline and knowing what you're up against to make wise decisions.

it seemed you were using the word "bad" to mean "evil", a concept which is based in religion and not useful in rational discussion.

you can say that man-made drugs are "unhealthy", "gross", "addictive", "unnatural", or any number of things, but to say they are BAD is judgemental, closeminded, and careless.

and believe it or not, despite their addictive and unhealthy qualities, some people may actually benefit from the use of meth, heroin, or cocaine... afterall, these drugs have their counterparts in the legal pharmaceutical market, e.g Morphine, Oxycontin, novocaine, Adderall, etc...

 

[raypack]

I agree with Truthman but see his views more as a rule of thumb not an absolute truth.

Using the tobacco example.... If I smoke additive free tobacco, despite getting a good feeling mentally, I get a really bad feeling physically that lasts for a couple of days. It's like self-regulating me not to abuse it, and I don't. Does this happen with commercial cigarettes? NO! They use a combination of 600 different chemicals (obviously a single cigarette will only use 10-20 of those not all 600) mixed with tobacco to make sure that doesn't happen and you can happily smoke 2 packs a day. In fact, you might feel like crap if you don't because of all the stuff they add that makes it even more addictive than it already naturally is (which is very). And it has been scientifically well documented that the used fertilization methods make it more carcinogenic than it already is, but hey it gets them good yields or whatever.

Or opiates. I've heard many people say that they had to "learn to like them". Because they would get nauseous during their first couple of times. They just really had some kind of will to become a junky.

But yes. People are different. Situations are different. All I can say is listen to your body. Substances cannot be good or evil, they are not conscious beings. Prohibition does cause more problems than it solves, at least they way it's handled right now.

 

[Snagglepuss]

i think all drugs have bnefits even heroin and speed.Ive triend them all except for heroin,Its just that people abuse them,and thats their downside ..the addiction potential.The only drug i think that shouldn't exist is processed form of cocaine "Crack".
I've never seen a drug mess people up and make them a slave as bad.Can take a normal person ,and when their high,they will do "anything" to get more .Its just unbeleveable really and then theirs friends ,that can't get away from after years and years....bad stuff..

 

[titoon29]

The problem is not the drug.
The problem is why somebody would use it, and how.

Lack of good education because of prohibition do make users even more vulnerable. And big companies that are pushing fragile uneducated people to addiction, not to add this crazy capitalist world that leave less and less time and options for having social interaction, which leave some people totally lost.

We have forgotten how to listen to our body and be attentive to its changes and the benefits of certain drugs on it. Overuse and addiction are the results.

 

[Truthman]

You can't be serious - tobacco is harmful because of what fertilizers are used? What about the nicotine?

Tobacco kills 443,000 people every year. That's more than twice that of all synthetic pharmaceutical and illegal drugs combined.

You can get an intensely pleasurable high from consuming poppy pods. Some prefer it to pharmaceutical grade morphine. And it is more addictive for sure...

I think it's far more likely the opiates encourage consumption by animals so that they litter the seeds everywhere in their dung.

You can definitely wreak havoc on your health by overusing coca leaves, poppy tea, or chewing too much khat. It just takes more effort to kill yourself than with the concentrated substances because you need to consume a greater volume of material.

Datura is more popular than I'd like to believe...

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Datura.shtml

Nicotine is not a harmful substance when consumed whole with the tobacco plant. Like I stated it very close to niacin. Notice how niacin overdose and nicotine overdose are the same. Most cigarettes are not even high quality tobacco leaf, they are pieces of tobacco shake that have been sprayed with nicotine and other additives and this is part of the problem. The fertilizers as well as the curing methods have also been part of the problem NOT the tobacco plant itself.

Of course you can get a high from poppies but along with that high comes a lot of things that make you stay away. Plus have ever seen how much sap comes out of a poppy, not much. You need a lot to make enough to continuously get high from it which is why you see so much poppies on a field. You also have to cut it open to release the sap which is another example of why it isn't meant to get high with.

Again I have never heard of anyone doing crazy things to get coca, khat. Poppy is different because it is used for something that is wasn't meant to be to me. Coca has been used for thousands of years with no problem and still is. Khat is abused for it's stimulating effects but even then you don't hear of people losing their teeth and staying up six days straight looking for their next high.

As far as Datura being popular, that goes back to me stating self discipline and even then most people are too scared to try it after hearing how it made some go crazy and one person cutting his dick off. Datura is not that popular.

 

[hunt4genetics]

In Florida with the "pain Clinics" we have zombie cities.


Forget the fountain of youth, we have the fountain of oxy!!!

 

[Truthman]

it seemed you were using the word "bad" to mean "evil", a concept which is based in religion and not useful in rational discussion.

you can say that man-made drugs are "unhealthy", "gross", "addictive", "unnatural", or any number of things, but to say they are BAD is judgemental, closeminded, and careless.

and believe it or not, despite their addictive and unhealthy qualities, some people may actually benefit from the use of meth, heroin, or cocaine... afterall, these drugs have their counterparts in the legal pharmaceutical market, e.g Morphine, Oxycontin, novocaine, Adderall, etc...

Good or Bad IS rational thinking, it's when you lump everything into good or bad is when it's not rational. It's all relative. That's why I stated for the short term and it's a SERIOUS health condition they are GOOD but for the long term and to get high with they are BAD.

Drugs do have some medicinal qualities BUT that's why they are BAD in the long run to me because they are so innocent in their effects in the beginning that when you start to notice their negative qualities it's too late it has you with a strong grip BUT like I stated earlier this isn't the old days when we didn't know the outcome. I have family, friends, neighborhoods that have been effected from them so if I take them or let them get out of hand when they were just for medical use I just didn't use discipline on myself and can only blame myself. Coming from where I come from I'm used to people trying using me to get what they want and get a come up and I don't trust big business including drug dealers so why would I allow them to take control of me by using their tools ESPECIALLY when I have herb that gives me a nice good high without the problems. We have to take some personal responsibility and stop blaming people who we already know don't give two shits about us.

BTW what I call Drugs are highly processed substances that have a strong effect on the body particularly the Central nervous system. Legal or illegal.

 

[Shcrews]

Drugs do have some medicinal qualities BUT that's why they are BAD in the long run to me because they are so innocent in their effects in the beginning that when you start to notice their negative qualities it's too late it has you with a strong grip

not necessarily. one can be aware of the negative qualities of a substance without experiencing them oneself. I don't believe any drug is bad if used cautiously and with purpose.

in freshman year of high school i had to write a 10-page paper on political voting methods in Ireland for a math class. I procrastinated until the night before, did a big line of meth, and spent the next 8 hours writing a paper which got me an "A+". DId i need drugs to do this? no, but it helped..

point being, all drugs have their time and place. The trick is recognizing that. I am not advocating drug use here, i am advocating RESPONSIBLE drug use. i've never tried heroin, but i'm sure someone could think of a productive or therapeutic use for it.

just to be clear, the only drugs i have done in years are weed and acid.

 

[Truthman]

not necessarily. one can be aware of the negative qualities of a substance without experiencing them oneself. I don't believe any drug is bad if used cautiously and with purpose.

in freshman year of high school i had to write a 10-page paper on political voting methods in Ireland for a math class. I procrastinated until the night before, did a big line of meth, and spent the next 8 hours writing a paper which got me an "A+". DId i need drugs to do this? no, but it helped..

point being, all drugs have their time and place. The trick is recognizing that. I am not advocating drug use here, i am advocating RESPONSIBLE drug use. i've never tried heroin, but i'm sure someone could think of a productive or therapeutic use for it.

just to be clear, the only drugs i have done in years are weed and acid.

That was a perfect example of how they get a grip on you because you obvioulsy used your self discipline to say no one time is enough but say you used again for your next paper and again nothing negative happens so you do it again eventually you will use it all the time and BAM now your using it just to maintain and get shit done. If you talk to addicts damn near all of them will tell you this is how they became addicts. It was a slow process for most people which scientifically is because they are releasing so much dopamine that even sex doesn't release, and that is VERY POWERFUL, that they now need it to just be regular. This is why it's so sneaky.