GroTunnel v.2010

[St3ve]

Looks good keef. I still can't quite invision how the flow works. I see the manifold with a ball valve to drain the buckets.. but I don't see where the pump pulls from. Is it a RDWC?

When I'm looking at stores that carry PVC parts I'm saddened by the prices... Something like a bulkhead shoudn't cost more than a couple of dollars but still the stores charge $15-$20 if they even carry them.

Agreed.. I've switched over to using all uniseals when I can and love them. On the bottom of the 5g's like that would work great. (they tend to leak on the sides of 5g's though).

 

[k33ftr33z]

I run a simple ebb n grow system 36-48buckets in a 18x9 ft room. (1/2in tubing on the floor), but debating on using a system like yours or med mans in the future. I like tables that are off the ground but I wont be able to make them too high my ceilings are very low at like 6.5ft/7ft between rafters. Not much room to work with but I love that you did the plumbing on the bottom of the buckets much better, congrats.

The solution is to use as shallow a reservoir as possible. Although with 36+ buckets that is a lot of water for a fill cycle, unless you divide them up in 3 or 4 circuits or stations to be watered in sequence. A shallow res can be built easily by using a curb or berm out of 2X6 and a pond liner. The pump requires at least 3 inches of water to function. Let me know if you need a better idea of how to accomplish this. Tables always are nice to get things to a comfortable working height as well as to accommodate passive drainage.

 

[k33ftr33z]

Looks good keef. I still can't quite invision how the flow works. I see the manifold with a ball valve to drain the buckets.. but I don't see where the pump pulls from. Is it a RDWC?




Agreed.. I've switched over to using all uniseals when I can and love them. On the bottom of the 5g's like that would work great. (they tend to leak on the sides of 5g's though).

bulkheads are best priced at aquaticecosystems.com They have all sizes and types whether you want threads or slip on the top or bottom.

The system pumps from and drains to the 30 gal. reservoir which is directly below the control bucket. The systems drains back out through the pump when it shuts off. It runs every 2 hours for 15 minutes.

The ball valve in the pic is used only when doing a water change to completely evacuate the system. It is not a manual valve for use at every watering cycle.

This system is almost too simple to understand. Many enthusiasts who have been checking out Ebb n Gro systems or hempy buckets or Bio Buckets are caught up in the complexity of those deployments. They all have too much plumbing to accomplish the same hopelessly simple task of filling the buckets and subsequently draining at close of cycle.

There are no high or low float switches in this system, instead relying on an overflow in the control bucket to set a high level. Low level is determined by the drain out through the bulkhead that is connected to the pump.

So, No, this is not RDWC(recirc deep water culture?) It is true ebb n Flo accomplished passively. The low level of the buckets is set to still retain 2 inches of water so they do not actually drain completely which is best. This low level is set by a riser and deflector on the pump inlet bulkhead.

The res is right here below the controller bucket. My control bucket is used also as a grow bucket as there is no chance for root interference with any float switches. This is an advantage over typical Ebb n Gro or like systems since no additional floorspace or extra plumbing is necessary for a control bucket or outboard reservoir. Everything fits in the same dedicated grow area footprint.


If you are still not certain how this works let me know. Maybe some better pics will make it clearer. Here to help. Always.

 

[St3ve]

ok I think I get it now.. so is there an overflow in the control bucket if a timer got stuck on?

In your original design you used a tiny pot with a tiny amount of hydroton and left the roots to dangle.(DWC?). In this design, I'm guessing you have it filled with a substrate/medium of some kind? I imagine you could use something that doesn't wick much at all (shale, hydroton, etc) and flood more frequently.

I actually like this design since you don't have to have a crazy big rez as in most ebb n flo types. How big is that one shown? Looks to be a 30 or so gallon. It also wouldn't require a chiller since you are allowing the pots to dry some before watering.

 

[k33ftr33z]

ok I think I get it now.. so is there an overflow in the control bucket if a timer got stuck on?

In your original design you used a tiny pot with a tiny amount of hydroton and left the roots to dangle.(DWC?). In this design, I'm guessing you have it filled with a substrate/medium of some kind? I imagine you could use something that doesn't wick much at all (shale, hydroton, etc) and flood more frequently.

I actually like this design since you don't have to have a crazy big rez as in most ebb n flo types. How big is that one shown? Looks to be a 30 or so gallon. It also wouldn't require a chiller since you are allowing the pots to dry some before watering.

You got it... The water reaches the overflow riser in the control bucket within 30 seconds of the pump starting. At that point the high level of the system is set and the water naturally flows through the manifold to the other buckets to achieve equalization. It continually overflows during the pump cycle as the pump volume exceeds the equalizing flow of the system. This is normal. It runs for 15 minutes but equalization only takes about 5.

The older design at the start of the thread was an aerated DWC affair. I am now using 6" net pot lids replacing the old standard bucket lid that was drilled for the 2" netcup. The 6" lid is better for the ever larger plants. Still using Hydroton. The water level never contacts the media or the bottom of the net cup. Water level in these systems is crucial and people having issues with it have the level too high most likely. The transition zone between root and dry trunk is a very sensitive area and vulnerable too overly wet conditions. Learning this caused many headaches but it is clearly understood now. Mature plants need about 2 inches of air space clearance under the pot at high water level. This is why I redesigned to EnF. DWC is problematic.

You are also keenly observant about reservoir size. Tray EnF systems require massive reservoirs so I stayed away from EnF for years over this drawback. Large reservoirs require lots of nutes to enrich so nute costs are excessive in tray systems. That's why I initially went to DWC buckets as the easiest way to small-res nute control. Clearly, Bucket EnF systems shares this advantage, as well as being a simpler water delivery method.

In short, Ebb n Flo buckets rule. I have tried and designed everything possible in hydro and it comes down to this most simple of designs. Too bad the industry continues to sell lesser systems by the boatload to unsuspecting beginners as they have a long row to hoe for their learning curve that will likely lead them to this kind of system eventually.

 

[Kitsym]

wow, great invention!

looks like the plants like it !

 

[BattleAxe]

Nice and clean build. Good luck with the run. +K!

 

[420ish]

great design and love the simplicity of it!

 

[k33ftr33z]

Love the duct work. Do the PVC pipes have some kind of flexible length / sliding assembly or do you need to cut them with precision?

The PVC are cut to precise length. Assembling can be tricky.The buckets have plenty of give in their holes and the bulkheads can be loosened to ease assembly. A sequential assembly gameplan helps to avoid misalignments.

 

[gregor_mendel]

k33ftr33z:

So the buckets are singles, not bucket in bucket?

Since the buckets are not filled with media, you have a bare root mass in the bucket?

 

[k33ftr33z]

k33ftr33z:

So the buckets are singles, not bucket in bucket?

Since the buckets are not filled with media, you have a bare root mass in the bucket?

Correct on both counts. I find the bucket-in-bucket setups redundant. As for media, If one can get these kind of results without any media, Then arguments over which media is better is moot. The Hydroton in the 6" netpot lids acts only as an anchor to the mainstem. I discourage rooting in the rockzone as that is where fungus gnats will thrive. If roots are encouraged to grow deeper into the buckets and an air gap is introduced between the netpot and the high water level, then the gnats have no cilia covered roots to thrive in and damage. That part of the root system is submerged every hour or so and the gnats will not tolerate that. I have not had a fungus gnat problem ever since going to closed field hydro systems. Gnats love rockwool and coco as the wicking power of those media are their downfall. I do not want wicking. I want a dry trunk zone. Most damping off and mysterious lack-of-vigor conditions can be traced to this issue. This is a very overlooked part of plant health. My tunnel system has evolved over a nearly 10 year process of real trial and error. The tunnel at the beginning was a natural development of the previous 20 years of indoor builds. The most recent upgrade has been the conversion to EnF over DWC. I could not be happier. It was slow to come as I had a long hel bias against EnF because of it's reliance on a huge reservoir in tray deployments. When designed into a bucket system it now requires no more reservoir than a recirculating system. I design for sustainability. All elements of this design must pass the test for performance, reliability, lowest possible cost without sacrificing the previous requirements. All design elements must make the best use of or enhance the given light, minimize consumables(nutes), and relieve me of redundant tasks like buying and disposing of media or relying on exotic fringe products. You won't see much in this setup that others consider necessary. Those have been designed out. No 1000w lights, cooling hoods, recirculating fans, PGR's. Yet the results are still here. I can't wait to experiment with LEDs.

Went a bit beyond the original inquiry. Thanks for checking out my system. BTW it goes beyond just the tunnel. This system performs best using training and defoliation to maximize the plants and fit them into the premium light zone. Feel free to Check my thread on that. The thread has gotten quite lengthy and burdensome to get to the essence of my technique. My Albums may provide the best catalog of this work.

 

[St3ve]

hmm.. so if you're not using media and the roots are just dangling, why not flood more often than two hours? It seems the roots would start to dry out or at least be able to utilize more frequent floods.

Of course, its in the bucket so the humidity is high, but still.

 

[k33ftr33z]

hmm.. so if you're not using media and the roots are just dangling, why not flood more often than two hours? It seems the roots would start to dry out or at least be able to utilize more frequent floods.

Of course, its in the bucket so the humidity is high, but still.

When they are young, the roots get a constant spray from the airstone sitting in the 2" of water I allow to remain in the buckets as the low water level. When the plants get large, the "dangling" roots become more like a mop, literally wicking from the bottom and also holding ample water between flood cycles. There is definitely no drying during ebb cycle. It is, as you state, very humid in the bucket even in this very dry climate. I am more careful about overwatering than under. That's why I switched to EnF over DWC.

You are correct to be concerned over any extended dry periods. It does not take long for drying roots to cause irreparable harm to the plant. One should find the cycle that they are comfortable with and their plants thrive under. A 2 hour flood cycle only leaves them without submersion for about 1:40.

 

[420ish]

you use 1 inch for the manifold.would there be a down side to using 1 1/2 inch?i am thinking of using 2 inch for the overflow.i only plan on running 4 buckets and am thinking using the same pump as you use with an oversized overflow will get me alot of dissolved oxygen in the water.in that scenario,would airstones in each bucket be needed?

 

[k33ftr33z]

you use 1 inch for the manifold.would there be a down side to using 1 1/2 inch?i am thinking of using 2 inch for the overflow.i only plan on running 4 buckets and am thinking using the same pump as you use with an oversized overflow will get me alot of dissolved oxygen in the water.in that scenario,would airstones in each bucket be needed?

Only downside to using larger than 1" is the cost of fittings rises sharply. Larger is always better. I settled on the happy medium with 1". Have yet to experience any clogging issues from the roots. A 2" overflow is probably overkill as the pump doesn't come near the draining capacity of even the 1" bulkhead and riser.

I prefer my airstones in the buckets and not the res so that the spray from the aeration isn't splattering everything around the res. Otherwise there is no issue with res aeration. Yes, the overflow to the res does a very good job of aerating at fill time. In this scenario, as soon as the control bucket fills and overflows, all the water distributing into the system is getting well aerated from the overflow. You can definitely get by without airpumps/stones. I like them running anyway since they draw little amperage so bubbles and roots play nice together constantly.

 

[420ish]

thanks for the fast reply.

 

[farmhouse cat]

Pretty cool! I have something kinda similar.

 

[420ish]

do you have any pics with the new system in flower?

 

[bagada]

what is the benefit of this vs going vertical. With vertical you would just orient the lights vertically and grow up the walls of the room. Then you wouldnt need to make that reflector and you would get more sq ft of grow space=more yeild
check out the pic below to see what i mean
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=33868&pictureid=792137

 

[mack 10]

Bump! trhis thread is killer! great work K33ftr33s! always loved your original thread..The new bucket's system is right up my street. I have been thinking of switching to Ebb and flood for its simpicity and quick growth but the large plant numbers(sog) always put me off, your bucket method solves these probs , i love it and am going to copy it, hope you dont mindwhat strain do you use ? and keep the great info coming, i for one apreiceate it. Mack.