cbd and thc...they both have medicinal effects

[stonedstoner]

i'm kind of sick of people saying that cbd is the "medical" strain. thc is very medicinal in itself. it seems like a lot of ppl are saying that high cbd strains are the ones with medical benefits, and they are not giving enough medicinal credit to thc. in the 2nd episode of weed wars, that dude picks up the harlequin clones from harborside and says it's the "medical strain". this kind of makes me feel like he's saying other thc heavy strains are not medicinal, only high cbd strains are. i don't like this.

also, i don't really like smoking harlequin very much. i much prefer high thc/low cbd strains to high cbd/low thc strains.

i can see how cbd is good for people not looking to get high, but come on, give thc the credit it deserves!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Thc is only one component... like CBD is. As far as a number of medicinal uses go.... thc is less valuable in the mix and is fine when only being a small amount.

I've found that using cannabis to treat mental issues like autism, adhd/add, and other hyper-states that higher thc concentrations in the strain can get in the way.

Don't like the taste? We should be eating it anyway. *shrug* Prohibition makes that expensive, but it's what we have to deal with. I highly recommend canna-pills if you can get enough bud/trim to make them yourself.

Stay Safe!

 

[Herborizer]

i'm kind of sick of people saying that cbd is the "medical" strain. thc is very medicinal in itself. it seems like a lot of ppl are saying that high cbd strains are the ones with medical benefits, and they are not giving enough medicinal credit to thc. in the 2nd episode of weed wars, that dude picks up the harlequin clones from harborside and says it's the "medical strain". this kind of makes me feel like he's saying other thc heavy strains are not medicinal, only high cbd strains are. i don't like this.

also, i don't really like smoking harlequin very much. i much prefer high thc/low cbd strains to high cbd/low thc strains.

i can see how cbd is good for people not looking to get high, but come on, give thc the credit it deserves!

I tried harlequin. It sucks for pain! Probably the most disappointed and overhyped weed I have tried.

 

[Rusty Trichome]

Likely my assumptions are old hear-say...but I always thought it was the THC:CBD ratio that made it a either a heady buzz or a body stone.
But I also thought that the CBD degrades with maturity into CBN. Isn't that how the effects can be manipulated, is by aging (degrading) the CBD, thus changing the CBD:CBN ratio? (per Marijuana Man, I believe)

Clear trichomes, (high CBD, low CBN) cloudy trichomes, (mid CBD, mid CBN) rusty trichomes. (low CBD, high CBN)

Makes me wonder...what phenotype(s) are bakers using in their edibles...sativa dominate or indica dominate trichomes...? I'm guessing that there's a big difference in the effects.

Perhaps I got it all wrong though.

Unimpressed with CBD edibles. Two hard-candy suckers (supposedly two joints worth total) and over an hour later it felt like I had taken one hit off a crappy sativa joint. Not at all worth the price, and didnt do a thing for the pain. Unless you count the pain of spending an hour picking the candy out of your teeth.

After half a dizen suckers, I finally figured that if you break-up the refrigerated hard candy and take it like they're pills, it doesn't get stuck to your teeth. No change in effects.

So much time is spent on making cannabis smell and smoke great...how about breeding a good tasting strain for edibles? Makes everything taste like crap...

To me..."Medical Strain" is a marketing term.

 

[Herborizer]

Make edibles with Kief, tastes good.

 

[guest8905]

cbd isnt supposed to make you feel buzzed like thc

i used a high cdb smoke - jamaican lion- i found this to be excellent and perfect for me

ive used a high cbd glycerin tincture, it made me feel kinda tired but no anxiety or stress. Kinda smiley

i say work with what works for you...

but to bash high cbd stuff as "marketing" or not medical is kinda taking it too far imo

 

[Chimera]

I also cringed when I heard buddy on Weed Wars claim harlequin is a true medicinal plant- they all have different medicinal values. Overall I have to agree with you though stoned, with a couple of exceptions.

Both THC and CBD have incredible medicinal benefits, but not always for the same condition. CBD actually is really important for inhibiting pain via CB2. You also can't deny the results the young child had with the CBD tincture.

In my personal opinion, I dont think smoking is the best method for delivering CBD. If you grow, check out a CBD variety and make some edibles, tinctures etc, consume a reasonable amount and then report back. I'd be surprised if you don't start seeing some benefits for actually alleviating the pain, as opposed to just abating the symptoms as THC does.

I believe a combination of high THC types and high CBD types, each available to be administered separately is the way to go. There is absolutely no doubt that THC has some medicinal benefits on its own, and CBD has some medicinal benefits on its own. To say THC s not medicinal is ridiculous, for some conditions it is more medicinal than CBD. For others, the reverse is true.

-Chimera

 

[budbasket]

CBD/CBN have a direct antagonistic effect on tumorous/cancerous cell, also leaving your normal "cells" safe, unlike chemo which just kills everything. Eh.....

Cannabinoids are a group of 21-carbon–containing terpenophenolic compounds produced uniquely by Cannabis sativa and Cannabis indica species.[1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. Although delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is the primary psychoactive ingredient, other known compounds with biologic activity are cannabinol, cannabidiol (CBD), cannabichromene, cannabigerol, tetrahydrocannabivarin, and delta-8-THC. CBD, in particular, is thought to have significant analgesic and anti-inflammatory activity without the psychoactive effect (high) of delta-9-THC.
Antitumor Effects

One study in mice and rats suggested that cannabinoids may have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors.[3] During this 2-year study, groups of mice and rats were given various doses of THC by gavage. A dose-related decrease in the incidence of hepatic adenoma tumors and hepatocellular carcinoma was observed in the mice. Decreased incidences of benign tumors (polyps and adenomas) in other organs (mammary gland, uterus, pituitary, testis, and pancreas) were also noted in the rats. In another study, delta-9-THC, delta-8-THC, and cannabinol were found to inhibit the growth of Lewis lung adenocarcinoma cells in vitro and in vivo .[4] In addition, other tumors have been shown to be sensitive to cannabinoid-induced growth inhibition.[5-8]

Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis and metastasis.[9-11] Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death. These compounds have been shown to induce apoptosis in glioma cells in culture and induce regression of glioma tumors in mice and rats. Cannabinoids protect normal glial cells of astroglial and oligodendroglial lineages from apoptosis mediated by the CB1 receptor.[12]

The effects of delta-9-THC and a synthetic agonist of the CB2 receptor were investigated in hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC).[13] Both agents reduced the viability of hepatocellular carcinoma cells in vitro and demonstrated antitumor effects in hepatocellular carcinoma subcutaneous xenografts in nude mice. The investigations documented that the anti-HCC effects are mediated by way of the CB2 receptor. Similar to findings in glioma cells, the cannabinoids were shown to trigger cell death through stimulation of an endoplasmic reticulum stress pathway that activates autophagy and promotes apoptosis. Other investigations have confirmed that CB1 and CB2 receptors may be potential targets in non-small cell lung carcinoma[14] and breast cancer.[15]

In an in vivo model using severe combined immunodeficient mice, subcutaneous tumors were generated by inoculating the animals with cells from human non-small cell lung carcinoma cell lines.[16] Tumor growth was inhibited by 60% in THC-treated mice compared with vehicle-treated control mice. Tumor specimens revealed that THC had antiangiogenic and antiproliferative effects. However, research with immunocompetent murine tumor models has demonstrated immunosuppression and enhanced tumor growth in mice treated with THC.[17,18]

In addition, both plant-derived and endogenous cannabinoids have been studied for anti-inflammatory effects. A mouse study demonstrated that endogenous cannabinoid system signaling is likely to provide intrinsic protection against colonic inflammation.[19] As a result, a hypothesis that phytocannabinoids and endocannabinoids may be useful in the risk reduction and treatment of colorectal cancer has been developed.[20-23]
Appetite Stimulation

Many animal studies have previously demonstrated that delta-9-THC and other cannabinoids have a stimulatory effect on appetite and increase food intake. It is believed that the endogenous cannabinoid system may serve as a regulator of feeding behavior. The endogenous cannabinoid anandamide potently enhances appetite in mice.[24] Moreover, CB1 receptors in the hypothalamus may be involved in the motivational or reward aspects of eating.[25]
Analgesia

Understanding the mechanism of cannabinoid-induced analgesia has been increased through the study of cannabinoid receptors, endocannabinoids, and synthetic agonists and antagonists. The CB1 receptor is found in both the central nervous system (CNS) and in peripheral nerve terminals. Similar to opioid receptors, increased levels of the CB1 receptor are found in regions of the brain that regulate nociceptive processing.[26] CB2 receptors, located predominantly in peripheral tissue, exist at very low levels in the CNS. With the development of receptor-specific antagonists, additional information about the roles of the receptors and endogenous cannabinoids in the modulation of pain has been obtained.[27,28]

Cannabinoids may also contribute to pain modulation through an anti-inflammatory mechanism; a CB2 effect with cannabinoids acting on mast cell receptors to attenuate the release of inflammatory agents, such as histamine and serotonin, and on keratinocytes to enhance the release of analgesic opioids has been described.[29-31]

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4

 

[budbasket]

I feel kinda bad for just copying and pasting an article but this is one of the best explained abstracts into the subject that I have been able to find. The original study done by the University of Virgina, I believe, basically stated that cannabinoids were 70% as effective as leading treatments at the time. Everyone knows this was a study funded by the government to initially find evidence of the detrimental effects to the immune system to combat those "damn hippies". Well they found the opposite, and even a possible cure for cancer, so had to cover it up.

Thankfully the wonderful doctors in Madrid rediscovered the effects of injecting rats with cannabinoids, reducing/killing supposedly incurable brain tumors. There was another more recent study done by a medical safety group or some-other which basically stated that there is potential in cannabis, what is termed "medical marijuana" by a large majority is not medicinal. Thus more time and effort should be spent studying the plant and producing stable compounds.

It was a combination of these during junior college that I decided to pursue plant pathology at a higher level. I think what is happening right now will be the recreational form, it will mirror the vineyard industry. The two are so similar its crazy. Harvesting grapes based on brix (sugar content), cannabis on trichome maturity. I believe both are therapeutic but not medicinal.

I think someday cancer will be either curable or at least treatable, similar to how infections or more serious disease are now. Perhaps a series of shots, a bottle of antibiotics. Again, there just needs to be more research. I think whats wrong with marinal and sativex is that is focuses on a single cannabinoid. There are over 70 different cannabinoids found naturally in the plant, I think there has to be a cumulative effect.

 

[stonedstoner]

I also cringed when I heard buddy on Weed Wars claim harlequin is a true medicinal plant- they all have different medicinal values. Overall I have to agree with you though stoned, with a couple of exceptions.

Both THC and CBD have incredible medicinal benefits, but not always for the same condition. CBD actually is really important for inhibiting pain via CB2. You also can't deny the results the young child had with the CBD tincture.

In my personal opinion, I dont think smoking is the best method for delivering CBD. If you grow, check out a CBD variety and make some edibles, tinctures etc, consume a reasonable amount and then report back. I'd be surprised if you don't start seeing some benefits for actually alleviating the pain, as opposed to just abating the symptoms as THC does.

I believe a combination of high THC types and high CBD types, each available to be administered separately is the way to go. There is absolutely no doubt that THC has some medicinal benefits on its own, and CBD has some medicinal benefits on its own. To say THC s not medicinal is ridiculous, for some conditions it is more medicinal than CBD. For others, the reverse is true.

-Chimera

hey chim, i definitely agree with you. but it just bothers me that nowadays people are saying that high cbd strains are the medicinal strains and thc strains are the psychoactive strains. i believe one of the budtenders in weed wars said that. to me that sounds like they are saying thc strains are not medical and that they are just recreational. it's kind of like they are saying that all these days we've been bullshitting about thc being medicinal, and now we finally have medicinal high cbd strains. but to me, ganja has always been medicinal, and the higher potency in thc the better it has been for me medicinally. i guess i'm just set in my thc ways.

 

[Chimera]

budbasket,

Good info... I skimmed most of it. I find it hard to read journal article style writing on these forums, much prefer the .pfd ..... my eyes have just become used to it after all the years. I've met the head researcher in Madrid, and his group has shown some pretty incredible things about cannabinoids in cancer. http://herb.com/guzman.pdf

Not sure if that article states or not, but THC is also an incredibly potent anti-cancer agent, expecially when used in conjunction with temozolomide. So I have to agree with stonedstoner, the medicinal importance of THC should not be brushed aside because it is the dirty litte brother of the cannabinoid family that gets people high. I firmly believe the psychological and spiritual experience of THC and the terpenes in our brain is a positive thing. Why are we shying away from this medicinally important molecule because it gets you high? Ridiculous.

stoned- a couple of things... I suport your contention that THC is medical, it clearly is. The evidence is undeniable. I would say though don't get to set in your ways, this is an ever evolving science and we need to be open to new things, and if educating the masses about CBD is part of that - the I say we support that message... it's only good press for cannabis the way I see it.

We also have to keep in mind the context of the show. Harborside is getting lots of attention, and part of that is from the fed agencies of course. The DOJ is probably scrutinizing every aspect of each broadcast... wouldn't you if you were in their position? Steve DiAngelo is no fool, so I'm sure he is quite clever on which message is being sent out; part of his job is he needs to show people the 'other' important medicinal compounds available - in equal amounts to THC - in the plant if we choose the right specimens and use proper analytical methods to find them. CBD IS medicine. End of story.

THC on the other hand has had enough medicinal 'press' to the point where almost everybody in the public is aware that it has a medicinal value, which is a big change from even 20 years ago. However a huge, vocal, section of the population still either believes we are wrong, or wants to use Cannabis as a method of control on society as they have for the past 80 years.

CBD is not psychoactive, is relatively unknown even in our own community, let alone the general pubic, and has incredible medicinal potential... again I direct you to the obvious evidence of the young child's seizures stopping for 3 days in that same episode. It is worthy of exploration as a medicine, and worthy of being publicized by Harborside for it's medicinal potential, especially with older people and new users who simply can't tolerate high THC medicines. (If you don't believe me try smoking a fat joint of my Mental Floss of Schnazzleberry parents with someone who has never smoked before, and enjoy your trip to the hospital, or spend the next 2 hours trying to convince them they are not dying. ).

CBD 'counter-acts' THC at the receptor (to simplify), which essentially means you don't get as high as with high-THC weed. A certain type of medicinal user, especially those who have never smoked weed before, can really benefit from mixed CBD/THC cannabis. The oral consumers especially- those that don't want to get whacked out, or need to work all day and can't be high can certainly benefit from high CBD or mixed CBD/THC cannabis preparations.

I wonder how many people on these forums really understand how far the medicinal benefits go, even though they are 'on our side'. I learn more about cannabis' medicinal potential every day, and I am continually shocked to learn about her potential in many conditions and diseases. The scientific community has discovered some truly incredible benefits of the cannabinoids, including as we mentioned the ability of THC and other cannabinoids to kill some types of cancerous cells, while ensuring protection in non-cancerous counterparts... which is essentially how all other anti-cancer drugs fail- sure they kill the cancers, but they also kill healthy cells. Cannabinoids, don't do this. Along with the apetite stimulating properties, effects of CBD has on the seratonin in our brains (which is highly involved in mood); the possibilities of these compounds as anti-cancer medicines is nothing short of incredible.

There is also incredible evidence for pain for both THC and CBD, acting in different ways. Inflammatory conditions, MS, epilepsy, AIDS wasting syndrome (achexia), arthritis, Crohn's, migraine, spinal cord injury, bladder retention problems, insomnia, sleep apnea, fibromyalgia...even ZIT - each benefit from cannabinoids and I could go on and on.

We have to keep in mind that it is OUR responsibility to educate the masses about the potential of ALL of the cannabinoids, but I don't think we should shy away from THC because it has a 'bad-rap' from a certain segment of he population. We need to make sure everyone knows the potential of all the cannabinoids, and make them understand that smoking cannabis is not a socially harmful behaviour, and that people should not be criminalized for its cultivation or consumption.

-Chimera

 

[mpd]

I am still hopeful of finding a strain that will act as a headache aborter for classic migraines and tension migraine headaches. If somebody has it, please PM me. I'm a desperate man.

 

[stonedstoner]

i used to get migraines in high school all the time. that was before i started smoking though. after i started smoking ganja, i never get migraines. i mean i do every now and then, but extremely rarely. i might get a migraine once ever 2-3 years. before i started smoking i would get multiple migraines a year. it was horrible.

chimera...i totally agree that cbd is important. and the epileptic kid that stopped having seizures because of the cbd tincture was really awesome to see. and you're right, it was cool of harborside to show that you can medicate without getting high, which is good for kids that need medicinal cannabis.

 

[mofeta]

I am still hopeful of finding a strain that will act as a headache aborter for classic migraines and tension migraine headaches. If somebody has it, please PM me. I'm a desperate man.

I am sorry you suffer from this horrible affliction. Maybe I can help.

If you have the tension induced migraines, you might want to look into TMJ (Temporomandibular joint syndrome).

Also, study the food triggers of migraines.

Lastly, the use of low-doses of hallucinogens that act on 5HT receptors can bring miraculous relief. LSD and psilocybin are the two used most often. The dose used is sub-tripping dose, and the relief is instantaneous and can last for months, even years. From what I have seen, mushrooms with psilocybin work best.

START HERE Follow all the links on the page. If you have questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Weird]

i have strains that make you hungry i have stains that make you not want to eat

i have strains that abate fear i have strains that educe hyper vigilance

i have strains that keep me up i have strains that put me to bed

those anecdotal observations coupled with some old statistic that went something like there are 2000 + potential chemical compounds that can be found in cannabis of which 250 + are present in any given test subject has led me to believe that marijuana has the potential to represent almost a limitless combination of medicinal valuable chemical
analogs

 

[watts]

do you think that epileptic kid will become immune or build too high of a tolerance to the tinticures?

Also, is there a list of genetics with higher cbd?

 

[ShroomDr]

tag and i wanted to add IMO the EASIEST argument for MMJ

Does weed give people the munchies?
Would 'munchies' help a chemo patient who struggles to eat and maintain body weight?

 

[redneck shogun]

Does weed give people the munchies?

Maybe if this question was asked of the president then he would be on record in support of the medicinal benefits of cannabis?

 

[eloquentsoution]

tag and i wanted to add IMO the EASIEST argument for MMJ

Does weed give people the munchies?
Would 'munchies' help a chemo patient who struggles to eat and maintain body weight?

mom is dying if alzheimer's. some strains cause her to eat (hippie chicken for instance) and high cbd strains.

 

[Rusty Trichome]

but to bash high cbd stuff as "marketing" or not medical is kinda taking it too far imo

Cool. But it can be taken the reverse way too. "Normal" strains have the effects I'm looking for in pain relief and appetite stimulation. The etherial effects are a bonus I enjoy.

So if I'm getting pain relief from "normal" strains and pheno's with low CBD numbers...how do you account for my pain relief? If the pain relief is still there, perhaps Harborside is just trying to sell shitty weed and pass it off as "medicinal". A quazi placebo effect. Or perhaps the CBD targets diffeent sites on the body than the CBD's or THC's... One compound for nerve endings, one compound for message transfer, one for message interpretation, one for bile, one for gout...Who knows? Most certainly not Harborside.

Too many conflicting FACTS that need to be addressed before I personally would consider the science settled. Since you are getting relief, that's cool. Just be sure you think it's the CBD because it IS the CBD, not because they TELL you it's the CBD. Perhaps the CBD weed has the same compounds as the shit I'm smoking, but I'm getting my money's worth from the other compounds, lol. <slight jab...nothing personal>

Love all the discussions going around the web about the CBD:CBN ratios, and all the different things it does. Would be nice to see a scolarly report or two regarding the ratio's of the THC:CBD:CBN, and what medically-specific issues is best treated with which compound or ratio of compounds rather than the web-wide incompetent speculation from kids unable to complete a homework assignment.

My first thought when I heard of Harborside's patented CBD strain, was along the lines of..."isn't this the thinking that got us that wonderful pot-in-a-pill product called Marinol?" Speaking of which, I wonder what the CBD ratio is in Marinol?

My mind is open, but not to snake oils and speculation. I'm a patient, not a frigging guinea pig.