RDWC, I bit of a quandry I'm in.

[Bassy59]

I've got myself into a bit of a problem.

I have 8 clones in veg for 49 days with heavy defoliating & topping a couple times waiting to go into tent (they are in closet in dwc under 4 cfl's) when I pull my current grow out to harvest. I'll probably get to pull them in a week or so.

Problems:

1. These clones are kinda massive with all the defoliating, fim, topping I did. Six of them are between 15"-17" tall, one is 9-10", one is 12-13". ALL are going to be very wide bushes.

2. I have in my tent already two DWC tubs from stealth hydro. I turned them into rdwc when I got a chiller. They are linked with drain tubes at bottom to a "T" line, to the external pump to the chiller. Then out the chiller to another "T" between the two tubs near their top to fill. This works fine with two tubs, though maintaining even water levels can be a challenge.

3. I need to add another tub since I can't afford to build a whole new 6-8 bucket rdwc presently.

4. I really think in the back of my mind they will be too big for the tent and too big for the tubs with 3 plants in two of them.

5. The biggest issue if I do put them all in there is how to RDWC without a main feed reservoir. Just strictly recirculating them all. The issue with a main feed res is zero room in the tent. Outside the tent the issue becomes how do I use only 1 reservoir (another 10g tub) and get proper water levels in tent.

I have a partial design idea I need feedback on. Using my terrible mspaint skills, I have a pic below. Now, the issue is where exactly do I put the feed / drain lines in the tubs? I have 3/4" tubing presently. Two tubs already have holes - lines set up in bottom and top. Feeding them is no issue with my 395gph external pump going to the chiller and filling from the top.

However, if run in series they wont get "pumped" into tubs 2 & 3.

So how do I feed all tubs? Where do I put each line, feed and drain from one tub to the next?

Here's pic of some thoughts that need finishing as well as my veg'd clones.

 

[ajc0k]

The biggest issue if I do put them all in there is how to RDWC without a main feed reservoir. Just strictly recirculating them all. The issue with a main feed res is zero room in the tent. Outside the tent the issue becomes how do I use only 1 reservoir (another 10g tub) and get proper water levels in tent.

my hydro -newb advice as i'm new to rdwc as well. I've got a 9 bucket rdwc and if i were you, i would buy a durable 15-20 gal tote to keep right outside the tent, and run a 3/4" return line or even two from each tote, to the new controller..
Drill a hole in the controller for a float-valve and install.. Then use that extra 10 gal tote you have to keep on top of the controller lid, install a 1/2" ebb n flow fitting which will be connected to the float-valve, fill with water, set float valve level.. . bam! automated top offs..
As for return/feed lines i cut a few holes on the bottom of my tent so i could zip the tent up completely.

 

[sneaky101]

In my RDWC I have a pump in my Rez with a T connector that pumps it to my 2 tubs feeding my easy DIY drip ring that is just unermeath the lid that circulate the water in each tub. Not sure if that's the kind of answer you were looking for, but hope it helps.

 

[Bassy59]

my hydro -newb advice as i'm new to rdwc as well. I've got a 9 bucket rdwc and if i were you, i would buy a durable 15-20 gal tote to keep right outside the tent, and run a 3/4" return line or even two from each tote, to the new controller..
Drill a hole in the controller for a float-valve and install.. Then use that extra 10 gal tote you have to keep on top of the controller lid, install a 1/2" ebb n flow fitting which will be connected to the float-valve, fill with water, set float valve level.. . bam! automated top offs..
As for return/feed lines i cut a few holes on the bottom of my tent so i could zip the tent up completely.

Not sure I'm getting your drift on the "controller".

I'm hoping to not cut a hole in the tent.

I dont quite understand why two extra reservoirs though. One feeding the other (with a float), that feeds the tubs. I do want to keep the amount of RO water needed weekly down a little bit since I have to buy it and lug 5g jugs upstairs.

I'm not using a main res in my two tub rdwc system presently. But it's a little bit of a pain in that I have to keep an eye on water levels in both tubs and adjust the drain outflow if one is higher than another to even them out. Not horrible, but something I have to be aware of on res change days.

If I were running a multi bucket single plants each system it would be easy. But presently I really cant afford the parts I'd have to buy. Not until these are done anyways.

 

[Maddhatter]

if you wanted to maintain a even level between the 2 tubs you have i would just simply add a connection and 1in hose between the buckets (attach somewhere near the base within i would say 1-3in from the bottom as this will allow the water level to stay even between everything


ok here is what i ended up doing. i have a 4 bucket system with a res. i elevated the buckets about 14 inches from the floor level where the res sits. there is not a controller bucket as its a constant top fed system (see attached pics). there is 1/2" feed line that break off to each bucket (1/4" for each bucket) and a 3/4" return/drain line thats all attached BEFORE it reaches the res to recycle. i usually fill my 32 gal res to about 17in from the bottom as to keep about 3in of water in each bucket. the beauty of this system is that its gravity driven for the return and it keeps all the buckets even and level

hope this helps

attached are some pics, if you need more details of materials used let me know and i can break it down for you, dont mind the bucket in the front as that is my DIY ezcloner

 

[il19z8rn4li1]

hum.. I dont understand what issue is here?

You know how RDWC work my friend some on now :-D

Do this.. Pick your tub that you will be having the FEED LINE into.. you dont need a feed
line in every tub as long as the solution is mixing nicely and exchanging at a good rate.

Feed one tub.. put the drain at the TOP .. this drain is your water lvl.. since no drain is at the bottom.. the water lvl can never drop.. BAM..

next top... do the same thing.. you can have this drain even at the same location/height as the other tub.

Have the first tub drain into the next one.. via "OVER FLOW"..

then as this first tub drains into the next one.. that one will fill up and it will drain into
the tub next to it...

have that last tub drain back into the RES/Control tub, usually will be a little LOWER then the other tubs so that you get a nice drain/water fall effect.

and thats it.. feed into the first tub.. they just over flow and will spill into the next tub
down the line. The only issue with this is making sure each tub will have enough DO for the plants as it passes through the tubs.

Which is why its nice to have the waterfall effect PLUS some air lines to assure your DO is high.

Shouldnt be a problem anymore my friend :-D

 

[Ultra Current]

I can help you design the system that will work real nice. You would have to swap out that 3/4" though for 1.5" instead though. If you want all your tubs more consistant, you need bigger pipes. You can use any type of tub that fits your needs and any layout that you customize. Heres one i made:

 

[Bassy59]

hum.. I dont understand what issue is here?

You know how RDWC work my friend some on now :-D

Do this.. Pick your tub that you will be having the FEED LINE into.. you dont need a feed
line in every tub as long as the solution is mixing nicely and exchanging at a good rate.

Feed one tub.. put the drain at the TOP .. this drain is your water lvl.. since no drain is at the bottom.. the water lvl can never drop.. BAM..

next top... do the same thing.. you can have this drain even at the same location/height as the other tub.

Have the first tub drain into the next one.. via "OVER FLOW"..

then as this first tub drains into the next one.. that one will fill up and it will drain into
the tub next to it...

have that last tub drain back into the RES/Control tub, usually will be a little LOWER then the other tubs so that you get a nice drain/water fall effect.

and thats it.. feed into the first tub.. they just over flow and will spill into the next tub
down the line. The only issue with this is making sure each tub will have enough DO for the plants as it passes through the tubs.

Which is why its nice to have the waterfall effect PLUS some air lines to assure your DO is high.

Shouldnt be a problem anymore my friend :-D

Thanks for your comments!

Ok in regards to the bolded part. I have to pump to the chiller. Which in turn will recirc back to the 1st tub nicely cooled nutrients. The pump is a 395gph unit. There will be three grow tubs holding 10 gals in the 1st tub (it's larger than the other two tubs), and two tubs holding 6 gals each. These are the water levels I hope to maintain.

Whats got me flamboozled is part of the bolded above. What I am not getting using the above method is where to locate the line in the LAST tub to feed via suction to the external pump then chiller.

I seem to be worried that the pump would be sucking out more water than can be fed to the 3rd tub not allowing it to fill to proper levels. For example if I put the drain to pump line on the 3rd pump at 3-4" above bottom (higher than the gravity feed from tub #2), would the tub reach it's fill height of say 8-10" to keep the roots bathed?

Here's more of my terrible MSPaint skills using what you mention above but NO location to line to the pump figured out yet.

 

[Ultra Current]

Thanks for your comments!

Ok in regards to the bolded part. I have to pump to the chiller. Which in turn will recirc back to the 1st tub nicely cooled nutrients. The pump is a 395gph unit. There will be three grow tubs holding 10 gals in the 1st tub (it's larger than the other two tubs), and two tubs holding 6 gals each. These are the water levels I hope to maintain.

Whats got me flamboozled is part of the bolded above. What I am not getting using the above method is where to locate the line in the LAST tub to feed via suction to the external pump then chiller.

I seem to be worried that the pump would be sucking out more water than can be fed to the 3rd tub not allowing it to fill to proper levels. For example if I put the drain to pump line on the 3rd pump at 3-4" above bottom (higher than the gravity feed from tub #2), would the tub reach it's fill height of say 8-10" to keep the roots bathed?

Here's more of my terrible MSPaint skills using what you mention above but NO location to line to the pump figured out yet.

If you make all your pipes bigger and have at least a 1/2" fill and 1.5" drains then all bucket will be the same. I use a 950 gph pump for 40 gallons and 12 buckets.

 

[Bassy59]

UC, thanks for chiming in.

I have a few questions on this that I am just not getting my head wrapped around correctly. Based on the following:

1. In your photo above you are recirculating to a 5gal feed only. I understand that part fine and how it works. I also understand that if we use a chiller, we would pump to the chiller and return to the main feed res.

2. Two of my tubs are the same size. The third is larger by probably 40%, I dont recall exact gals.

** I do actually have a 4th tub, the same size as the other two. I would need to cut the netpot holes, should that be used instead?

So, if I use pvc in 1.5" dia from bottom of the 1st tub right on through the 3rd tub, then taper down to 1/2" to return to the pump-chiller-back to 1st tub, they'll all stay the same level? Thus we're not using a main res but making tub#1 the main. (trying to save the space for growing)

I'm confined to a 4'x4' tent presently. I have two options with tubs inside the tent.
3 x 20.5"L x 14"W x 12.5" H
or 1 x 17"w x 23"L x 13"H & two x of the above.

If I use all 3 the same size this will free up the green tub in the pics above to generate 8 more clones and veg during this flower. HOWEVER, these plants are using the Hi-yield defoliating technique from the same thread at the top of the forum and as such they will be too damn big to run 3 each in two of the tubs as they will get 30"square or more. That doesnt have anything to do with my water issue and recirc, but you see the trouble I'm getting myself into here. I may just be better off going with 6 plants and keeping two as moms in veg bonsai style.

 

[Ultra Current]

I know what you mean and i will explain your problems. The container or rez sizes do not mater as long as you understand that gravity makes them all the same level as long as you use big enough pipe. Your problem comes into play at the way you want to taper it down. If i understand what yoir saying, you dont do it that way. The way that you or anyone should be building systems is to pretend that there is no water pump in the equation. No matter what your layout is, all containers includong rez or controller have 1.5" pvc conecting them in 2 places per bucket or rez. The water will not circulate this way but it is to show you that it will make all containers to the same heights in water. Now what you do is anywhere you want to put the pump, you do, but you dont disturb all the 1.5" pipe in the system or you will not have all the same heights anymore all the time. So what you do is this, anywhere you want in the system (usually the half way point), cut into the 1.5" pvc and put a 1.5" T fitting. Now on that one section you can go down to 3/4 or 1/2" for your pump. That feeds into the rez or controller. Even if it shuts off, it just doesnt recirculate but will still stay at the same levels weather its off or on. The Secondary rez(if you have one) doesnt need to be piped in with 1.5" pipe or any pipe. You can just put a float valve in the controller and it takes whay it needs and shuts off like a toilet.

 

[Bassy59]

I understand above.

No go with me on this. can this be done without a main res like the 1st tub in your pic, or my drawing above? Because space is so limited inside the tent for these monster bushes I am trying to do it without a main res. Recirculating from tub #3 down to 3/4" pipe or whatever into the chiller and feeding back into tub #1 effectively making it the main res and grow tub as well. It seems like if I do what you say, and T off, run to chiller and back to any of the tubs, they will effectively become the res and water level will maintain.

Like below drawing I made (different from above slightly) Edit: I guess I forgot to show location of 1.5" as bottom in this drawing so lets pretend it's low on tubs.

 

[Ultra Current]

I understand above.

No go with me on this. can this be done without a main res like the 1st tub in your pic, or my drawing above? Because space is so limited inside the tent for these monster bushes I am trying to do it without a main res. Recirculating from tub #3 down to 3/4" pipe or whatever into the chiller and feeding back into tub #1 effectively making it the main res and grow tub as well. It seems like if I do what you say, and T off, run to chiller and back to any of the tubs, they will effectively become the res and water level will maintain.

Like below drawing I made (different from above slightly) Edit: I guess I forgot to show location of 1.5" as bottom in this drawing so lets pretend it's low on tubs.

Yes you are all good with no rez and you get it. With no rez you will have to top off more. Personally from the pic in your last post, i would move the t fitting to in between the left 2 containers instead.

 

[Bassy59]

Thanks UC. I'm harvesting my last tub tomorrow or the next 2 days or so. Then cleanup and I'll start placing the tubs around and get exact placement then start to cutting.

I get where you're coming from on the T fitting and drain to pump. In between, at the furthest point from the chiller feed thus allowing easier, more constant, gravity leveling to the tubs beyond the chiller fed tub.

Now, cutting to proper length with hardly any tools, and proper sealing should be fun.

I used to build Harley Davidson high performance engines, Transmissions, and complete bikes. Yet this is a totally foreign mechanic to me.

 

[Ultra Current]

Thanks UC. I'm harvesting my last tub tomorrow or the next 2 days or so. Then cleanup and I'll start placing the tubs around and get exact placement then start to cutting.

I get where you're coming from on the T fitting and drain to pump. In between, at the furthest point from the chiller feed thus allowing easier, more constant, gravity leveling to the tubs beyond the chiller fed tub.

Now, cutting to proper length with hardly any tools, and proper sealing should be fun.

I used to build Harley Davidson high performance engines, Transmissions, and complete bikes. Yet this is a totally foreign mechanic to me.

Everything you need is at lowes or home depot except maybe the washers but you may get lucky. If you cant get the washers, send me a PM and ill show you where to get them. If you need a part list let me know.

 

[Bassy59]

Everything you need is at lowes or home depot except maybe the washers but you may get lucky. If you cant get the washers, send me a PM and ill show you where to get them. If you need a part list let me know.

What washers do you speak of UC? I've been looking around the net to gather the info on the pvc, elbows, etc from lowes/home despot. I am not seeing anything from them to seal up the bulkheads however. Are you talking about a uniseal type washer?

Havent found any uniseals locally either yet. But it is Sunday so most places are closed if I wanted to call also.

 

[Ultra Current]

What washers do you speak of UC? I've been looking around the net to gather the info on the pvc, elbows, etc from lowes/home despot. I am not seeing anything from them to seal up the bulkheads however. Are you talking about a uniseal type washer?

Havent found any uniseals locally either yet. But it is Sunday so most places are closed if I wanted to call also.

I use the trap adaapter piece and an electrical fitting for the inside. The tutorial in my signature shows where you can get the washers. Look through my pics and youll get an idea.

 

[il19z8rn4li1]

OK I skimmed over what has happened... but im not sure
if you understand what will happen in the system I mentioned.

Look at the above picture...

Bucket 1 = chiller

Buckets 2, 3, 4, are plant buckets.

buckets 2,3,4, are all the same level(raised up 1 or 2 inches)
each bucket has a feed hole and drain hole, the feed and drain
will have to be the same height with this style because its just
push and gravity working here.

The feed/drain holes are HIGH in the bucket.. to the lvl at
which you want your water lvl.. so if you want 9inch of water
depth, you make your holes about 9inche from the bottom of the bucket... accordingly.

Now the Chiller bucket would be that 1 or 2 inches LOWER then the others. But you gotta see though that the water lvl in this bucket doesnt matter ONCE the other buckets have been filled to there
over flow point. That is how this system works, merely each buck is OVER FLOWING.

So now. you would have the feed line of the pump in the chiller bucket feeding into Bucket #2....that bucket is going to overflow...in turn start filling Bucket #3...and so on.

as #4 overflows it will be spilling water out its drain filling up its drain hose to the chiller.

Bam :-D Thats it. SUPER simple style, I recommend this style only if you got a few buckets and you can utilize a waterfall into the last bucket, or make sure there are a lot of bubbles in the buckets.

I use this method for my vegging mothers, a few 5gallon buckets in a mini RDWC...keeps them all equal and i then only have to check
one of them in order to know how they all are doing :-D But they need a shit ton of bubbles since i have no waterfall in the mix.

Hope this cleared everything up my friend :-D




PS>>

Ultra Current,

Im so snagging that little check-valve and PVC setup you got connecting to the pump.

What diameter are the threads on the pump, and are both the inlet and outlet threaded?

I got a 500gph pump that only the outlet is threaded but the inlet is smooth for the filter to
slide over. :-D

 

[Ultra Current]

Danner pumps are all threaded both ways. Depends on size of pump. 500 is 1/2" and 950 is 3/4"

 

[Bassy59]

UC, I'm looking at your pics and do not see how the bulkheads are sealed to the pipe. Sorry, but it just doesnt show in those. I can barely see some sort of black ring around the outside but this doesnt define what it is, or the kind of electrical fitting you mentioned above.

I like how you set up above. I'm just missing a couple key important components to complete the picture in a leak proof way.

Thanks for all your time on my little pea brain.