Citizens To Be Imprisoned Without Charge Or Trial

[onegreenday]

gonna watch both of these when time permits...

actually i am downloading the 3 hour and 35 min clip

that title is not correct. Paul 'denounces' ; not 'defends' the legislation.

2 diff vids; here's the Senate floor title:

Sen. Rand Paul Speaks on the Senate Floor on Defense Authorization Act - 11/29/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjVgWNzQnk&feature=relmfu

 

[waveguide]

thanks for choosing to be aware of this folks

 

[Marick23]

I'm not buying it.

Should look at the full bill and see what these guys are really trying to get passed us. I smell something rotten. It's too obvious. There using this to draw focus away from other parts of the bill. That way some soft amendment can come through that fixes all the indefinate detainer language to some acceptable easy to swallow level. Making it easier for the dems that later pass the bill to defend themselves. The bill gets passed everyone continues on their stars and stripes way. All the while the real agenda was hidden much more cleverly than the indefinate retainer portion. Probably has more to do with military contract spending than anything else.

 

[draztik]

Pay close attention to world events! So much is happening so fast. This bill is just one part of the overall plan of these psychopaths that have hijacked our government and our banking system.

 

[GP73LPC]

and the worlds central banks just united today to make more money available to the euro central bank...

things are moving fast and it's gonna get real fucking ugly when banks and economies all over the world start failing...

 

[GP73LPC]

Rand Paul did make a good speech, thanks for the link onegreenday

 

[onegreenday]

We have similar conditions brewing now as occurred
before WWII. An attack on Iran could assure WWIII.

https://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/11/29-0#.TtZNxj1vkzU.facebook

Occupy the Budget

by Abby Zimet

Want to understand why the occupiers are occupying? Hint: The big red chunk is military spending. A People's Guide to the proposed 2012 federal budget from the National Priorities Project explains how $1.34 trillion in discretionary funds - that's your money - will be spent. Information is power, or at least the start of it.

 

[Hydrosun]

We have similar conditions brewing now as occurred
before WWII. An attack on Iran could assure WWIII.

https://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/11/29-0#.TtZNxj1vkzU.facebook

Occupy the Budget

by Abby Zimet

Want to understand why the occupiers are occupying? Hint: The big red chunk is military spending. A People's Guide to the proposed 2012 federal budget from the National Priorities Project explains how $1.34 trillion in discretionary funds - that's your money - will be spent. Information is power, or at least the start of it.

Well it is hard for me to trust whoever put that graph together. Any guess what 59% of $1.34 trillion is? Apparently the author doesn't.

What scares the shit out of me is this is a discussion of where 1.34 trillion goes but nothing is being said about the 7.7 trillion created by the fed and given to the banks at 0.01% interest (one penny interest on every HUNDRED borrowed).

It makes ZERO difference how 1.34T is spent IF the bankers can make unlimited trillions with the click of a computer.

 

[Space Toker]

who cares if it applies to US Citizens or not? I mean its good it does not, but no one deserves this! I am sick of the notion that US Citizens somehow deserve preferential treatment all over the world just because they are Americans! Scrap this bill and all those who voted for it (from the looks of it, almost all Repub's and conservative "fake" Dems).

 

[trichrider]

oh but it does.
and soon they will be saying pot growers are terrorists. trust me, they are already alluding to that.
the R. Paul video from 10:15 on should clue you to their scheme.

remember the obamacare, thousands of pages, no one read it, but it passed. Pelosi said "you can find out what is in it after it passes." Harry Reid inserted a line intending to thwart repeal, but it was discovered.

like R. Paul said in the video...once your liberties are gone, they won't be returned.

thought i saw on the news/interweb that this had passed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...-detain-americans-indefinitely_n_1119473.html


thank you you fucking retards.

 

[FreedomFightr]

Thank you for making people aware of this. These political whores in our government can't wait to unfold their totalitarian police state and this is it! Once everyone figures out that the government is run by the six mega banks along with Goldman Sachs who cause the booms and busts of our economy, and their army of evil corporations like GE and Monsanto. Just about every politician especially these puppets campaigning for the republican nomination are bought and paid for with the exception of Ron Paul. Pay close attention to world events. These f**King demons are trying to start world war 3 and collapse the economy at the same time just as they introduce their police state control grid. They love attacking us on multiple levels at once. This banking oligarch knows it's just a matter of time until the population becomes aware of whats really going on, so they are moving very quickly to strip away whats left of our freedom. I know we will stand up united as free thinking sentient beings with inalienable rights given to us from god and not some f**king psychotic control freak government controlled by a banking oligarch! History repeats.

I could not of said it better myself.

 

[Ziggaro]

Passed 93-7

Hope it gets vetoed as was threatened

 

[FreedomFightr]

Maybe this all setup so Obama can Veto it and look like a good president, so He can win the election?

 

[onegreenday]

When Obama was a IL Senator, political people that knew him said he was further right wing than the most strident Republicans they knew.

I suspect Obama may be a Republican 'mole' planted in the Democratic party (he is that radical) many years ago.

A 'Manchurian candidate' if you will. EDIT: SNIP: From WSWS.org

"Naked state repression is required to impose the dictates of the financial elite."

If Obama wins another term I suspect
he'll pass this law next time around.....


http://wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/pers-d03.shtml

World Socialist Web Site
wsws.org
US Senate backs military detention of American citizens
3 December 2011

The US Senate voted Thursday night to approve a military funding bill that codifies into law the criminal state practices begun under Bush—and continued under Obama—in the name of the “global war on terror.”

It explicitly authorizes the military’s indefinite detention without trial of American citizens and mandates that all non-citizens charged as terrorists—including those arrested on US soil—be detained indefinitely by the military rather than brought to trial in a civilian court.

The legislation was part of the National Defense Authorization Act, which provides $662 billion to finance the US military machine and its multiple wars abroad. The act passed the Democratic-controlled body by an overwhelming margin of 93 to 7, underscoring once again that there exists no serious constituency for the defense of democratic rights within any section of the American ruling elite or its two big business parties.

Thrown out by this legislation is the right guaranteed under the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution for all those accused of a criminal offense to a “speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury,” and the core provision of the Fifth Amendment declaring that no person shall be deprived of liberty “without due process of law.” It legalizes the abrogation in practice over the past decade of the bedrock principle of habeas corpus, which requires that the state bring a detained individual before an independent court and show just cause for imprisonment.

The bill also bars the use of any funds authorized for the Pentagon to shut down the infamous prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and restricts the release of anyone currently detained there. It thus permanently enshrines within US law an institution that has turned the United States into a pariah nation around the globe.

Finally, more than a decade after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on New York City and Washington, it renews the Authorization of the Use of Military Force (AUMF) rammed through Congress in the immediate wake of those attacks, while granting even more sweeping powers to the executive branch than were included in the original legislation.

Specifically, the AUMF, passed in September 2001 authorized the use of force against “those nations, organizations or persons” determined by the US president to have “planned, authorized, committed or aided” the 9/11 attacks or found to be harboring those responsible.

The legislation incorporated into the Pentagon spending bill goes much further. It authorizes the use of force as well as extra-constitutional imprisonment against anyone who is “a part of or substantially supported Al Qaeda, the Taliban or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners.”

What is involved here is the legislative endorsement of what George W. Bush once described as “the wars of the 21st century,” i.e., endless acts of military aggression conducted under the banner of a perpetual “war on terrorism” in which the entire planet—including US soil—is deemed a battlefield.

What are the “associated forces” referred to and who are Washington’s unnamed “coalition partners”? These terms are undefined and deliberately vague, serving to provide a legal fig leaf for US wars in Somalia, Yemen and elsewhere. Experience has proven that the determination of what forces are defined as “associated” with Al Qaeda and terrorism depends entirely on US geo-strategic interests. Thus, ex-Al Qaeda associates are hailed as “freedom fighters” and utilized to carry out regime-change in Libya, while elsewhere, forces with no substantive connection to the terrorist network are demonized and attacked.

And what does it mean to “substantially support” Al Qaeda or the Taliban? Does it include writing articles, making statements or organizing demonstrations against US wars waged on the pretext of combating these forces?

In 1918, the socialist leader Eugene V. Debs was thrown into prison under the draconian Sedition Act for delivering a speech opposing the First World War and calling for the working class to take power and carry out the socialist transformation of society. Even then, however, the government had to try him before a jury. The legislation passed Thursday renders such democratic niceties superfluous. Now such an offense would be punishable by disappearance into a military-run concentration camp.

Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican from South Carolina), one of the most vociferous backers of the legislation, left no doubt as to its significance. He declared: “If you’re an American citizen and you betray your country, you’re going to be held in military custody and you’re going to be questioned about what you know, and you’re not going to be given a lawyer if our national security interests dictate that you not be given a lawyer.”

The American Civil Liberties and various liberal groups have praised the White House for threatening to veto the legislation and have urged Obama to act. The reality, however, is that the Democratic president is not opposing the bill based upon reservations regarding its sweeping anti-democratic content. On the contrary, like the Bush administration, the Obama White House has already assumed the powers of military detention codified in the legislation.

It has gone significantly further than its predecessor, asserting the right to assassinate US citizens, with the president ordering their deaths without presenting a shred of evidence against them. It has implemented this supposed “right” in the drone missile murder of Anwar al-Awlaki, the New Mexico-born Muslim cleric, as well as others over the past year. If the White House is willing to murder US citizens without charges or trials, it has no principled basis for objecting to their military imprisonment and indefinite incarceration.

The Obama administration’s concern is not with constitutional rights, but rather with preserving its extra-constitutional, quasi-dictatorial presidential powers to carry out war and repression without any interference by the legislative branch.

A White House statement on the legislation complains that it would “micromanage the work of our experienced counterterrorism professionals, including our military commanders, intelligence professionals” and other “operatives in the field.” It insists that it “would be a mistake for Congress to overrule or limit the tactical flexibility of our Nation’s counterterrorism professionals.”

As Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the Democratic sponsor of the legislation, made clear in the debate, the Obama administration intervened in the process to demand that language in the original version of the bill that excluded US citizens and lawful residents from being indefinitely detained by the military without charges be removed. The White House saw this restriction as an unacceptable limitation of its powers, including its asserted power to order the military to “disappear” American citizens for alleged offenses that are never made public.

The Senate legislation serves only to expose the already existing structure of police-military dictatorship that has been erected behind the decaying facade of American democracy over the past decade, as well as the full complicity of both major parties in this process.

The nationwide police violence and repression unleashed against the Occupy Wall Street protests have provided a glimpse of the real character of a government that is of the rich, by the rich and for the rich. Under the conditions of unprecedented social inequality, joblessness and social misery that sparked these protests, even the most rudimentary forms of democratic government become untenable. Naked state repression is required to impose the dictates of the financial elite.

The defense of democratic rights today is inseparable from the struggle for social equality, and both stand in irreconcilable conflict with the US ruling elite and all of its institutions, including the Democratic Party and the Obama administration. This struggle can be successfully waged only through the independent political mobilization of the working class, the sole social force capable of carrying out the socialist transformation of society and ending the conditions of inequality, war and repression spawned by capitalism.

Bill Van Auken

Copyright © 1998-2011 World Socialist Web Site - All rights reserved

 

[onegreenday]

Passed 93-7

Hope it gets vetoed as was threatened

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...-for-US-citizens-Senate-bill-raises-questions


The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
Guantánamo for US citizens? Senate bill raises questions

The National Defense Authorization Act passed by the Senate this week could allow the US military to detain American citizens indefinitely. Civil libertarians are alarmed, and President Obama says he might veto it.
Temp Headline Image
Senator and Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin and ranking Republican committee member Sen. John McCain. They support a National Defense Authorization bill which critics say could lead to indefinite military detention of US citizens.
(Newscom)

By Brad Knickerbocker, Staff writer
posted December 3, 2011 at 8:40 am EST

Legislation passed by the Senate this week and headed for the House – and a possible presidential veto – could allow the US military to detain American citizens indefinitely.

The National Defense Authorization Act covering $662 billion in defense spending for the next fiscal year includes a provision requiring military custody of a terror suspect believed to be a member of Al Qaeda or its affiliates and involved in attacks on the United States.

A last minute amendment allows the president to waive the authority based on national security and to hold a terror suspect in civilian rather than military custody. But the bill would deny US citizens suspected of being terrorists the right to trial, subjecting them to indefinite detention, and civil libertarians say the amendment essentially is meaningless.

RECOMMENDED: Seattle arrests show how domestic terror fight is evolving

“This bill puts military detention authority on steroids and makes it permanent,” Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel of the American Civil Liberties Union, said in a statement. “If it becomes law, American citizens and others are at real risk of being locked away by the military without charge or trial.”

Libertarians and conservatives wary of big government are speaking out against the bill as well.

"If the president thinks you are a terrorist, let him present charges and evidence to a judge,” Libertarian Party Chair Mark Hinkle said in a statement Friday. “He has no authority to lock you up without any judicial review, just because he and Congress believe he should have unlimited power. That is the kind of power held by tyrants in totalitarian regimes. It has no place in the United States.”

Echoing arguments against federal government power made by his father, presidential candidate Rep. Ron Paul (R) of Texas, Sen. Rand Paul (R) of Kentucky spoke forcefully against the measure: “We are talking about people who are merely suspected of a crime, and we are talking about American citizens. If these provisions pass, we could see American citizens being sent to Guantánamo Bay.”

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) of California likens the measure to former president Franklin Roosevelt’s ordering the incarceration of US citizens of Japanese descent during World War II.

"We are not a nation that locks up its citizens without charge, prosecution, and conviction,” she said during Senate debate.

"This constant push that everything has to be militarized – I don't think that creates a good country," Feinstein argued. "Because we have values. And due process of law is one of those values. And so I object, I object to holding American citizens without trial. I do not believe that makes us more safe."

Making the country more safe from possible attack is exactly the point, counters Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) of South Carolina, a former military lawyer. What the measure does, Graham said, is “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield.”

“It is not unfair to make an American citizen account for the fact that they decided to help Al Qaeda to kill us all and hold them as long as it takes to find intelligence about what may be coming next,” Graham said. “And when they say, ‘I want my lawyer,’ you tell them, ‘Shut up. You don’t get a lawyer.’”

The issue is not being debated along party lines in Congress.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D) of Michigan (liberal on most issues and a friend of the Obama administration) and senior Republican committee member Sen. John McCain of Arizona forcefully argued for the bill.

"Al Qaeda is at war with us," said Sen. Levin. "They brought that war to our shores. This is not just a foreign war. They brought that war to our shores on 9/11. They are at war with us. The Supreme Court said, and I am going to read these words again, 'There is no bar to this nation's holding one of its own citizens as an enemy combatant.'"

This coming Monday, a tea party group plans to protest in Sen. McCain’s home state.

“When it comes to personal liberty and violation of every citizen’s Constitutional rights, Republicans are willing to take a stand against one of their own if a major mistake has been made," says protest organizer Jeff Bales, a member of the Pima County, Arizona, Republican Executive Committee.

"'Innocent until proven guilty' is essential to our legal system and American way of life,” says Mr. Bales. “The Senate Armed Services Committee's legislation violates fundamental values. It is unconstitutional and must be defeated. We cannot allow America to go further down the road of becoming a police state.”

Some opponents of the new proposal are raising the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which restricts the use of military forces in domestic law enforcement.

The Obama administration “strongly objects” to the military custody provision, the White House said in a statement Friday. “It would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets.”

But the basis for the veto threat is not so much concern for civil liberties as it is for presidential power in such cases.

"Counterterrorism officials from the Republican and Democratic administrations have said that the language in this bill would jeopardize national security by restricting flexibility in our fight against Al Qaeda," White House press secretary Jay Carney said. “By ignoring these non-partisan recommendations, including the recommendations of the secretary of defense, the director of the FBI, the director of national intelligence, and the attorney general, the Senate has unfortunately engaged in a little political micromanagement at the expense of sensible national security policy.”

RECOMMENDED: Alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Hasan faces March 2012 trial

 

[resinryder]

Sieg Fucking Heil.
Just getting in some practice for when the time comes.

 

[onegreenday]

`They could only pass these laws against us
by creating an external enemy. (terrorist)

and a false

flag on 9-11


According to the government ' al Quaeda' does

not exist, as bin Laden is dead and the group destroyed

(only 1-2 member/leaders left)

but we need this new law......just in case;
they come back????

Now we all must join the 'intifada'...

Sieg Fucking Heil.
Just getting in some practice for when the time comes.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Dude... you need to stop getting your propaganda (I mean news) from the socialist websites.

Maybe pick up a book on Logic 101?

Really.

Edit: You're still on my ignore list and I don't read your posts. Just know from others quoting you that you're still waaay off base.

 

[onegreenday]

what are you stalking me? your post is off-topic.

this is important stuff;

not your kiddy nonsense.......


oooh the socialist booogy---mannnnnn

ooooohhhh look outttt

Dude... you need to stop getting your propaganda (I mean news) from the socialist websites.

Maybe pick up a book on Logic 101?

Really.

Edit: You're still on my ignore list and I don't read your posts. Just know from others quoting you that you're still waaay off base.

 

[abellguy]

Passed 93-7

Hope it gets vetoed as was threatened

Damn those fuckers I surely hope it does get vetoed! This country is becoming a totalitarian state quick. Minority report isn't that far fetched anymore