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Occupy Wall Street: Not on major media but worth watching!

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onegreenday

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Karl Marx predicted all these fatal flaws of the present financial capitalist system we employ ,way back in the 1800's;
just simply look at his works and see how much of it is correct and applies today.

No nation has ever practiced pure communism or socialism.......

Crusader Rabbit said:
I think what has the Occupy Wall Street protesters fired up is that the United States has abandoned Industrial Capitalism for Financial Capitalism. We don't produce that much wealth from raw materials now, as compared to extracting wealth that was formerly created, from our industries and from the middle class.

Our industrial infrastructure along with the jobs it supported has been moved out of the country. The middle class used their homes as ATM machines and gave up their wealth to predatory lenders who repackaged those mortgages and sold them to speculators. Any industrial wealth hedged for a rainy day was extracted and handed over to investors. Pensions were looted by the handiwork of corporate lawyers. The wealth is gone, or really, moved to the top .1%, to be invested overseas.

So the banksters sucked the life out of our middle class, crashed the world economy, accepted their bailouts without a thank you, and now expect the poor and middle class to tighten their belts. People are pissed.
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DiscoBiscuit

DiscoBiscuit

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mrcreosote said:
I don't deal in purity of ism's. Couldn't care less. That's an argument for sophists and tenured professors that can afford the luxury of wasting time.
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I'd agree if ideology affected only educators. Ideology affects government, it also affects the folks buying government favor. Some of us have a hard time accepting the better of two imperfect scenarios when ideology alone outweighs it's own benefit-to-detriment track record.

The only ism I care about is pragmatism. We have a seriously broken Govt. and we need to fix it and it's going to take a lot of hands on deck to get it done.
Banging a drum and crapping on private property is like fixing a broken computer by giving a monkey a hammer.
Makes the monkey happy as hell but kind of a waste of time as far as fixing the computer is concerned.
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I like what you say about pragmatism. I agree that government is broken. We might disagree on the solutions. IMO, business isn't the bad guy. However, fixing government will affect bottom lines.

IMO, banging a drum doesn't represent solutions. In this case, banging drums is a call for solutions when the current ones diminish the middle class and working poor. It's interesting that organized protest is interpreted as solution in itself.

No human indecency lends to positive message. By and large the protests are peaceful and within ordinance. A guy taking a crap in the wrong place ought to face the consequences but it has little to do with the message that reform is past due.

Apparently, now it's inappropriate to use public porta-jons the way media commentators reference the gross tonnage hauled away on trucks (as if it was scraped off the sidewalk.)
 
G

greenmatter

onegreenday said:
Karl Marx predicted all these fatal flaws of the present financial capitalist system we employ ,way back in the 1800's;
just simply look at his works and see how much of it is correct and applies today.

No nation has ever practiced pure communism or socialism.......
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if marx was still alive he would have figured out that pure communism or socialism are theories ....... get them outside of a book and add human beings and shit goes south. there is no perfect system overall.

criminals and idiots will find a way to fuck up any system or situation you put them in
 
trichrider

trichrider

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excuse me but some of our founding fathers were criminals.
put into situations, like prohibition, those ingenious minds will prevail over the sloth inherent in government. ie: slick banker bailouts.
thinking the change promised by the whorebama was they were not going to respect us in the morning from this point on.
ows is bound to fail without demands, which may bring martial law, then nothing get accomplished...movement washed out. this is the tactic media is using to dilute the protests effectiveness...television viewers are not apprised of the true situation, only the disaffected or oppressed show awareness.
truly sad the media becomes an enemy, but a powerful one at that. distraction, prestadigitation, becomes magic to those who believe iraq had wmds because dick cheney said so...
then there is the lack of a link between and government/corporate collusion, the FED, and militarization of the police force...shit is running downhill and we're at the bottom.

the movement will fail because of the patriot act, opposition to governance will become outlawed, the authorities are already telling occupyLA to gtfo. all cities in the movement are harrassing occupiers, police brutalizing old women, young women, students, media shifting blame onto occupiers, ad naseum.

never mind the corporate greed, we can fiddle with that at a later date, right now focus on changing the paradigm of legislaters making laws further seperating indviduals from their rights.
 
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Hydro-Soil

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grozzef said:
i hate capitalism, always get a bad feeling when i've sold meds in the past as opposed to when it's been given away. that always feels good. don't like working for someone else to get money that always sucks. don't like spending money anywhere, it's all just different shit. you can mark me as the first anti-capitalist you've seen here.
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Ok... first go learn what capitalism is... then you'll have the info you need to decide whether or not you are one.

What you describe has nothing to do with capitalism. The day you get to operate in a free market in this country.... you MIGHT be a capitalist. Since that condition only existed for about 10 minutes.... you can't possibly be a capitalist. Sorry.

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:
 
DiscoBiscuit

DiscoBiscuit

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Some folks liken capitalism to a totally dissolved solid, as if regulated capitalism and or social welfare convert capitalism to something unrecognizable.

Same thing as mixing black and white, the resulting shade of gray appears to be neither of it's components. But a closer look reveals that the two pigments are independent of each other and only lend the appearance of gray. One can analogize this to regulations that don't affect segments of the economy. If I'm not prone to commit fraud, I'm likely to not be subjected to it's consequences. The fact the same consequences exist (for those who might commit fraud) makes little difference to me and the great majority of non-fraudulent businessmen and women.

Economists recognized that social welfare of the 70s was less expensive nationally than dissolving the social safety net. These folks weren't depending on ideology or gut reaction. Their statistics proved we paid less in assistance than we'd have paid in decreased productivity and GDP. Bean counters aren't all bleeding hearts.

It took sociologists to recognize that what was intended as a safety net and macro economic countermeasure beget a way of life for a segment that was too large to sustain. The economic factors still indicated that social welfare was less expensive. But sociologists convinced assistance advocates that channeling assistance in the wrong way deprives too many individuals the opportunity to learn how to float their own boats.

So Clinton and the Republican congress reformed welfare. Now, block grants are given to states rather than Uncle Sam sending individualized assistance benefits. Folks still get assistance but the majority of funds are targeted at temporary assistance (at the state level.)

When you add sociological perspective to the economic statistics, the reformed welfare system is better than it's predecessor. The argument itself incorporates pragmatism with ideology.

How smooth a ride one advocates for the rich indicates how much suffering one would endure.
 
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onegreenday

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A native american perspective on "occupation"

http://aianattackthesystem.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/mohawk-nation-news-well-let-your-people-go/

Mohawk Nation News: We’ll Let Your People Go
Posted on November 22, 2011

WE’LL LET YOUR PEOPLE GO
Mohawk Nation News
http://www.mohawknationnews.com/

MNN Nov. 20, 2011. Foreign occupiers [of Great Turtle Island]! Looking for solutions? Everything based on a lie is a lie. Like how foreign corporate entities called US and Canada and their subjects live on the graves of our murdered ancestors. It was through Armed robbery of our land and resources! We always watched our visitors and looked beyond what everyone is meant to see. The Europeans brought their tamed.

Obedience was bred into them at a young age, generation after generation, reinforced by intimidation and punishment. They say they came here to live in paradise to have a perfect life. They killed most of us and then destroyed it. These 1% hierarchical controllers of Western society don’t know us. It took them 30 years to find Geronimo. [He wasn’t hiding. Just got tired of seeing how incompetent his pursuers were.]

We indigenous are hunters, guerillas and observers of everything. Controllers mercilessly frighten, horrify and instill hopelesslesss in their subjects. The cops are the enforcers for the crime bosses, the bankers and politicians. Repressive militarized force is under one command.

In today’s urban warfare, the cops need a crowd, then gang up on their own people. They beat up children, women, pregnant women, disabled, elderly and middle class softies who won’t hit back. The rest knuckle under.The revolution will be gangster style hits. Most of their subjects turn the other cheek, or brag about being beaten for no reason! Urban tactics include the two sides swarming each other and provocateurs pushing.


At the G20 in Toronto in 2010, in the “kettling” maneuver, the cops blocked off streets and the protesters marched in an orderly fashion. The cops blocked them in, then beat and arrested them. [See “Into the Fire”]. Cops fear people of color, lawsuits and riots. The government owns the people and the banks own their labor. Psychotic greed to own a worker’s life productivity drives them to greater crimes. They threaten and even murder those who refuse to live with less so they can have more. The fascist economic system is collapsing. Fraud and corruption are being exposed. Fear of losing control is causing panic.

Worse is coming. What is the underlying element? The Vietnam protests got out of hand. Not this time! We Indigenous do not let ourselves get herded for the kill. The crowd goes wild when they see blood. They don’t want to be next. They don’t have families or communities to run to who have any inherent obligations to them. The people will soon be panicking for food.

The White House is the main plantation that dispenses food. According to the Romans, whoever has the key to the grainery controls the people and the empire. As Crazy Horse told us, “Know your enemy.” Stay out of sight. Our energy comes from within us, not from someone yelling at us to defend ourselves. Only we can save ourselves. We don’t grovel in pain to show how much they’re hurting us. A real revolution has to expose all the truths, how the invaders murdered over a hundred million of us to have the American Dream.

Otherwise they will remain enslaved, screaming to be saved. Colonists may return to their masters who will take them back into feudal slavery. The path is laid out, perfect and beautiful, in soft tones.

Should we ask the foreign masters to take their people home? They are lost souls. Every treaty ever made with us was violated. Under international law, if a treaty between nations is broken, everything reverts back to one day before the treaty was signed. Penn State is creating a super human killing machine. Drugs can deprive soldiers of sleep for 48 hours or more. They will feel no scruples, no pain, no remorse.

Virtual videos show them how to kill women and children without guilt. The brain will be immersed in trans cranial magnet stimulators. High levels of analytical thinking [intuition] will be switched off. Field helmets will run complex battle scenarios. These dream team serial killers may not be able to return to normal. The military should be careful what they wish for. Fear is necessary to protect your life.

Our visitors think chopping off the head of the serpent will free them. Always looking for outside help! For Indigenous our intuition will guide us to find what we need to know.

Victory comes by living the great law of peace. When the Europeans invaded Great Turtle Island they turned their backs on it. Big mistake!
 
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onegreenday

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Iranian Revolution inspired the 'occupy' movement...

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/212425.html


Islamic Awakening inspires intl. events
Sun Nov 27, 2011

Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei says the current awareness and wave of Islamic Awakening in the Arab world will inspire future events in the world.


“The developments in the US and Europe suggest a massive change that the world will witness in the future,” Ayatollah Khamenei, who was addressing thousands of Basiji forces, said on Sunday.

“Today the slogans of Egyptians and the Tunisians are being repeated in New York and California,” added the Leader.

Ayatollah Khamenei said those familiar with the inspirational truth of the Islamic Revolution, have waited 30 years for this uprising just as arrogant powers have shuddered in fear of such movements for three decades.

“The Islamic Republic is currently the focal point of the awakening movement of nations and this reality is what has upset the enemies,” said the Leader.

Ayatollah Khamenei said hegemonic powers use intimidation of nations and the heads of states as their main approach, adding the Iranian nation showed the people of the world the false awe of bullying powers and that they can be defeated, and this is the main reason Iran has infuriated domineering powers.

The Leader dismissed Western propaganda about Iranian involvement in the uprising of nations and said, “The Islamic Republic of Iran has no need for such things (meddling) because the continuation, resistance and honesty of the Islamic establishment is in itself a source of inspiration and guide for nations.”

HMV/HGH
 
bombadil.360

bombadil.360

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onegreenday said:
Iranian Revolution inspired the 'occupy' movement...

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/212425.html


Islamic Awakening inspires intl. events
Sun Nov 27, 2011

Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei says the current awareness and wave of Islamic Awakening in the Arab world will inspire future events in the world.


“The developments in the US and Europe suggest a massive change that the world will witness in the future,” Ayatollah Khamenei, who was addressing thousands of Basiji forces, said on Sunday.

“Today the slogans of Egyptians and the Tunisians are being repeated in New York and California,” added the Leader.

Ayatollah Khamenei said those familiar with the inspirational truth of the Islamic Revolution, have waited 30 years for this uprising just as arrogant powers have shuddered in fear of such movements for three decades.

“The Islamic Republic is currently the focal point of the awakening movement of nations and this reality is what has upset the enemies,” said the Leader.

Ayatollah Khamenei said hegemonic powers use intimidation of nations and the heads of states as their main approach, adding the Iranian nation showed the people of the world the false awe of bullying powers and that they can be defeated, and this is the main reason Iran has infuriated domineering powers.

The Leader dismissed Western propaganda about Iranian involvement in the uprising of nations and said, “The Islamic Republic of Iran has no need for such things (meddling) because the continuation, resistance and honesty of the Islamic establishment is in itself a source of inspiration and guide for nations.”

HMV/HGH
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lol...you must be a first class idiot if you believe the bullshit Khamenei is puking.

to begin with, if we were to look at examples of who did uprisings against the 'arrogant powers' first, sorry pal, it ain't in the islamic world. try south and central america. try asia.

second, the people of Iran are sick of his shit, and he has the cynicism to say this, whoa just whoa... there's no politician in the west that I know of that has this much lack of shame.

Iranian involvement in the uprisings? you must be kidding, who has said that? really?

did he also invent the "interwebs" as well? lol...
 
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onegreenday

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The Iranian Revolution predates South & Central Amerika.
Iran's the only nation to expel USA/Israel corruption from it's soil.

There's no doubt Iran influenced Egypt's revolution.
Just ask an Egyptian

EDIT: Besides Iranian oil why does Isramerika fear Iran so much?
Because the Iranian Revolution is the model for expelling
Amerikans and Islamic awakening. It's common knowledge that
the Iranian Revolution is a turning point in the Islamic revolution,
to expel the infidels once & for all.
 
O

onegreenday

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Here's the Iran you don't know & USA
won't tell you.

::SNIP::

anti-democratic act that the U.S. government committed in 1953. That was the year the CIA secretly and surreptitiously ousted the democratically elected prime minister of Iran, a man named Mohammad Mossadegh, from power, followed by the U.S. government’s ardent support of the shah of Iran’s dictatorship for the next 25 years.


http://www.fff.org/comment/com0501i.asp

An Anti-Democracy Foreign Policy: Iran
by Jacob G. Hornberger, January 31, 2005

When Iranians took U.S. officials hostage in the U.S. embassy in Tehran in 1979, Americans were mystified and angry, not being able to comprehend how Iranians could be so hateful toward U.S. officials, especially since the U.S. government had been so supportive of the shah of Iran for some 25 years. What the American people failed to realize is that the deep anger and hatred that the Iranian people had in 1979 against the U.S. government was rooted in a horrible, anti-democratic act that the U.S. government committed in 1953. That was the year the CIA secretly and surreptitiously ousted the democratically elected prime minister of Iran, a man named Mohammad Mossadegh, from power, followed by the U.S. government’s ardent support of the shah of Iran’s dictatorship for the next 25 years.

Today, very few Americans have ever heard of Mohammad Mossadegh, but that wasn’t the case in 1953. At that time, Mossadegh was one of the most famous figures in the world. Here’s the way veteran New York Times correspondent Stephen Kinzer decribes him in his book All the Shah’s Men:

In his time, Mohammad Mossadegh was a titanic figure. He shook an empire and changed the world. People everywhere knew his name. World leaders sought to influence him and later to depose him. No one was surprised when Time magazine chose him over Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and Winston Churchill as its Man of the Year for 1951.

(Kinzer’s book, published in 2003, is an excellent account of the CIA coup; much of this article is based on his book.)

There were two major problems with Mossadegh, however, as far as both the British and American governments were concerned. First, as an ardent nationalist he was a driving force behind an Iranian attempt to nationalize the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, a British company that had held a monopoly on the production and sale of Iranian oil since the early part of the 20th century. Second, fiercely independent, Mossadegh refused to do the bidding of the U.S. government, which by this time had become fearful that Mossadegh might align Iran with America’s World War II ally and post–World War II enemy, the Soviet Union.

As Kinzer puts it,

Historic as Mossadegh’s rise to power was for Iranians, it was at least as stunning for the British. They were used to manipulating Iranian prime ministers like chess pieces, and now, suddenly, they faced one who seemed to hate them....

[U.S. presidential envoy Averell] Harriman paid a call on the Shah before leaving Tehran, and during their meeting he made a discreet suggestion. Since Mossadegh was making it impossible to resolve the [Anglo-American Oil Company] crisis on a basis acceptable to the West, he said, Mossadegh might have to be removed. Harriman knew the Shah had no way of removing Mossadegh at that moment. By bringing up the subject, however, he foreshadowed American involvement in the coup two years later.

The 1953 CIA coup in Iran was named “Operation Ajax” and was engineered by a CIA agent named Kermit Roosevelt, the grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt. Capitalizing on the oil-nationalization showdown between Iran and Great Britain, which had thrown Iran into chaos and crisis, Kermit Roosevelt skillfully used a combination of bribery of Iranian military officials and CIA-engendered street protests to pull off the coup.

The first stage of the coup, however, was unsuccessful, and the shah, who had partnered with the CIA to oust Mossadegh from office, fled Tehran in fear of his life. However, in the second stage of the coup a few days later, the CIA achieved its goal, enabling the shah to return to Iran in triumph ... and with a subsequent 25-year, U.S.-supported dictatorship, which included one of the world’s most terrifying and torturous secret police, the Savak.

For years, the U.S. government, including the CIA, kept what it had done in Iran secret from the American people and the world, although the Iranian people long suspected CIA involvement. U.S. officials, not surprisingly, considered the operation one of their greatest foreign-policy successes ... until, that is, the enormous convulsion that rocked Iranian society with the violent ouster of the shah and the installation of a virulently anti-American Islamic regime in 1979.

It is impossible to overstate the magnitude of anger and hatred that the Iranian people had for the U.S. government in 1979, not only because their world-famous democratically elected prime minister had been ousted by the CIA but also for having had to live for the following 25 years under a brutal and torturous dictatorship, a U.S.-government-supported dictatorship that also offended many Iranians with its policies of Westernization. In fact, the reason that the Iranian students took control of the U.S. embassy after the violent ouster of the shah in 1979 was their genuine fear that the U.S. government would repeat what it had done in 1953.

Imagine, for example, that it turned out that a foreign regime had secretly and surreptitiously ousted President Kennedy from office because of his refusal to do the bidding of that foreign regime. What would have been the response of the American people toward that government?

Indeed, imagine that the CIA had ousted Kennedy to protect our “national security,” given what some in the CIA believed to be Kennedy’s “soft-on-communism” mind-set, evidenced, for example, by his refusal to provide air support at the Bay of Pigs, which resulted in the CIA’s failure to oust communist Fidel Castro from power in Cuba. What would have been the response of the American people to that?

At the time of the CIA coup, Iran was in fact in crisis and chaos. But democracy is oftentimes messy and unpredictable, and it no more guarantees freedom and economic stability than authoritarianism or totalitarianism does. (Think about the crisis and economic instability during America’s Great Depression along with Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal policies.) All democracy does is provide people with the means to bring about a peaceful transition of power. By violently injecting itself into Iran’s democratic process through its removal of their democratically elected prime minister, the U.S. government guaranteed the omnipotent dictatorship of the (unelected) shah, a dictatorship that would continue for the next 25 years, with the full support of the U.S. government. It was a convulsive event whose consequences continue to shake America and the world today.

As historian James Bill stated (quoted in Kinzer’s book),

[The coup] paved the way for the incubation of extremism, both of the left and of the right. This extremism became unalterably anti-American.... The fall of Mossadegh marked the end of a century of friendship between the two countries, and began a new era of U.S. intervention and growing hostility against the United States among the weakened forces of Iranian nationalism.

Kinzer writes,

The coup brought the United States and the West a reliable Iran for twenty-five years. That was an undoubted triumph. But in view of what came later, and of the culture of covert action that seized hold of the American body politic in the coup’s wake, the triumph seems much tarnished. From the seething streets of Tehran and other Islamic capitals to the scenes of terror attacks around the world, Operation Ajax has left a haunting and terrible legacy.

Mohammad Mossadegh died in 1967 at the age of 82, having been under house arrest in his hometown of Ahmad Abad since the time of the 1953 CIA coup that ousted him from power. The shah of Iran, who would remain in power until the Iranian Revolution of 1979, would not permit any public funeral or other expression of mourning for Mossadegh.

In a speech delivered in March 2000 by Madeleine Albright (then secretary of state ), the U.S. government finally acknowledged what it had done to the Iranian people and to democracy in Iraq:

In 1953, the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran’s popular prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. The Eisenhower administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons, but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran’s political development and it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs. Moreover, during the next quarter century, the United States and the West gave sustained backing to the Shah’s regime. Although it did much to develop the country economically, the Shah’s government also brutally repressed political dissent. As President Clinton has said, the United States must bear its fair share of responsibility for the problems that have arisen in U.S.-Iranian relations.

Not surprisingly, Albright’s “apology” fell on many deaf ears in Iran. While Iranians certainly have not forgotten the U.S. government’s support of Saddam Hussein and Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War during the 1980s, including its furnishing Saddam with weapons of mass destruction to use against the Iranian people, the root of Iranian anger lies with the anti-democracy foreign policy of the U.S. government, by which U.S. officials ousted the Iranian people’s democratically elected prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, from office in 1953.

Mr. Hornberger is founder and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation. Send him email.

bombadil.360 said:
onegreenday and whodare need to move to iran to live la vida loca there, then come back and report. lol...
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whodare

whodare

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bombadil.360 said:
onegreenday and whodare need to move to iran to live la vida loca there, then come back and report. lol...
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i wasnt commenting on One greenday's opinion of iran, i take all info i wasn't there to experience with a grain of salt...

i was merely commenting on the fact you called me a bigot and then call someone an idiot for their beliefs....

from wiki
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing sex, race, ethnicity, religion or spirituality, nationality, language, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, age, homelessness, various medical disorders particularly behavioral disorders and addictive disorders. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.
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Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have.[1] Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.[
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onegreenday

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