Phosphoload, Gravity, Bushmaster, Topload, and Flower Dragon Lab Test Results!

[ColoradoOG]

For a few months now we are unable to purchase phosphoload. BWGS(Sunleaves) would not ship out their excess stock of phosphoload as it was pulled off market. I believe this is the second time that product has been pulled. Maybe thats colorado but to my understanding that was across the board. Not many people used it anyways alot of people freaked at the 100$+ per bottle.

I never liked phosphoload anyways and always refused to use it. I have been sitting on an unused bottle for awhile now.

I do not personally like or use bushmaster but depending on strain i may use gravity

 

[Hydrosun]

I am not willing to take that risk on myself or my customers. Is the risk really worth a few extra dollars to you? If it is would you pass that info on to your customers and let them make the decision for themselves? What do you think they would say?

Well I smoke what I grow.

You asked "Is the risk" worth it to me personally; to be honest I am not sure what the risk is so I am not sure if using the product is worth it or not.

I'm all for letting people decide for themselves.

I know the dangers of cigs and don't smoke them, although others choose to.

I have smoke phospoload cannabis as well as non phospoload cannabis. You could say I am running a multiple decade long study.

My personal thought is there is nothing harmful in hydroponic cannabis after a proper flush. However if there is a way to lab test and detect any contaminates or carcinogens I'd be willing to test my personal smoke.

 

[huniebeez]

Well I smoke what I grow.

You asked "Is the risk" worth it to me personally; to be honest I am not sure what the risk is so I am not sure if using the product is worth it or not.

I'm all for letting people decide for themselves.

I know the dangers of cigs and don't smoke them, although others choose to.

I have smoke phospoload cannabis as well as non phospoload cannabis. You could say I am running a multiple decade long study.

My personal thought is there is nothing harmful in hydroponic cannabis after a proper flush. However if there is a way to lab test and detect any contaminates or carcinogens I'd be willing to test my personal smoke.

You're talking utter grabage and denying clear evidence more to the point. While you say the EPA/FDA have nothing you seem to forget that they banned Daminozide which is in Phosphoload. The way I see it is this - if you grow with Daminozide tell your customers this and then point them towards my website. If you want to PM me I can direct you to a lab that has set up for testing Daminozide and other in cannabis. Let's see if you're good for the challenge - although what I would add is that I will get someone to grow a plant with Phosphoload and then have them take the product to the lab to ensure the test is independent and not tainted by someone with an agenda. You pick up the tab and I will make it happen. As we speak legislation is now in place in Colorado that will mean med is randomly tested for Daminozide. Those busted using it will lose their licenses. You will also note the complexities of legislation I mention in the story at http://www.integralhydro.com/flowerdragon.html (if you even read it because based on the smoke and mirrors you're now putting out it seems you either didn't read it or chose to selectively misrepresent information - I.e. Daminozide is banned for use in ANY consumable crop) and the catch 22 is cannabis is not legal and therefore not legally deemed a consumable crop and therefore there is a legislative paradox that comes into play. Yosemite Sam you make extremely good points. Unfortunately some will always claim the Earth is flat in spite of the evidence. Hydro Sun learn to grow. Use low P in stretch and a combo of MH and HPS and you will find there is no need for PGRs to set up a good plant structure. Switch them down at the right time etc. PGRs are for clowns who can't grow. They reduce yields contrary to claims made by PGR peddlars.

 

[Hydrosun]

Well just post the addy for the lab. I'd love to send a sample and get a report, no need for you to make us wait 120 days as you grow something out.

Again you haven't told me why the two compounds in phospoload are bad, what is the problem with these in other plants?

As you said these compounds are banned and not easily obtained. I don't peddle these products, nor presume to tell others how to grow their cannabis.

 

[Green Supreme]

They are known carcinogens. The wiki link for daminozide shows that. I also link carcinogen for you. Peace GS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daminozide


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen

 

[Hydrosun]

They are known carcinogens. The wiki link for daminozide shows that. I also link carcinogen for you. Peace GS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daminozide


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen

Thanks for the links. Here is what I found interesting.

"While Alar has been verified as a human carcinogen, the amount necessary for it to be dangerous may well be extremely high.[6] The lab tests that prompted the scare required an amount of Alar equal to over 5,000 gallons (20,000 L) of apple juice per day.[citation needed] Consumers Union ran its own studies and estimated the human lifetime cancer risk to be 5 per million, as compared to the previously-reported figure of 50 cases per million.[7] Generally, EPA considers lifetime cancer risks in excess of 1 per million to be cause for action.[citation needed]"

I am still interested in having Phospoload grown hydroponic cannabis tested for residual Daminozide, but I doubt there will be any noticeable level. The Alar / Daminozide used from 1963 - 1989 was on many of the apples we ate, so we all have been exposed to huge quantities of this stuff. Using Daminozide in hydroponic solution weeks before harvest is very different than spraying it on apples.

 

[huniebeez]

Well just post the addy for the lab. I'd love to send a sample and get a report, no need for you to make us wait 120 days as you grow something out.

Again you haven't told me why the two compounds in phospoload are bad, what is the problem with these in other plants?

As you said these compounds are banned and not easily obtained. I don't peddle these products, nor presume to tell others how to grow their cannabis.

I know guys in the US who can use it and get sample into the lab in 6 weeks. The lab is based in Ca so ping me and I'll get it done to ensure qualitative analysis (including flush) that hasn't been tainted by a potential interest with a counterpoint to prove. Speaking of which I'll contact the lab now and ask if they have yet run any tests to date and see if they have data. Re Daminozide residues in cannabis.

DAMINOZIDE (ALAR)
Daminozide is considered a hazardous substance according to OSHA 29 CFR 1910. 1200. The EPA lists Daminozide as a “probable human carcinogen”. Combustion products include: carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrogen oxides (NOx), and other pyrolysis products typical of burning organic material. Combustion may emit poisonous fumes. Daminozide is an S5 poison.
Daminozide is produced by reacting succinic acid ahydride with unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH also known as 1,1-Dimethylhydrazine). UDMH is toxic, a carcinogen and can be readily absorbed through the skin.

Although Daminozide is the active ingredient, UDMH is also present as a contaminant in both technical and formulated products. UDMH can also be present in products through hydrolysis of Daminozide and this increases as a function of time and increasing temperature. The formation of UDMH from Daminozide residues is known to occur during cooking of apples and metabolism data has shown that Daminozide hydrolyzes to UDMH in plants and in the mammalian body.

Daminozide was initially registered as a pesticide in the United States in 1963 for use on potted chrysanthemums. The first food use, apples, was registered in 1968.
In July 1984, the EPA initiated a 'Special Review' of pesticide products containing Daminozide based on findings that Daminozide and its degradate and metabolite, unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH), were oncogenic (caused the growth of tumors) at multiple organ sites, in multiple species and strains of test animals. The Agency issued a 'Data Call-In' in 1986 requiring additional toxicology and worker exposure data. As a result of the Special Review, the registrant, Uniroyal Chemical Company, voluntarily cancelled all food use registrations of Daminozide on November 4, 1989. The EPA revoked the tolerances (maximum residue limits) for food uses in March 1990. There are no longer any registered food or feed uses of Daminozide, and all tolerances have been revoked. The EPA had calculated the hazard of cancer among people exposed to UDMH in Alar for a lifetime is 45 per million, which is 45 times as high as the one-in-a-million hazard EPA considers "negligible."
In fact, Daminozide is perhaps one of the most controversial agrochemicals ever, eclipsed only by Agent Orange, after the “Alar scare” in 1989 in which a CBS 60 Minutes USA show labeled Alar “a potent human carcinogen”, resulting in the near bankruptcy of the US apple industry. Prior to 1989, five separate, peer-reviewed studies of Alar and its chemical breakdown product, UDMH, had found a correlation between exposure to the chemicals and cancerous tumors in lab animals. In 1984 and again in 1987, the EPA classified Alar as a probable human carcinogen.
The use of Daminozide in any consumable crop is, therefore, illegal. The dangers it poses when used to grow a short-term decidious crop, which is then ingested via inhalation, are unknown (cannabis consumers being the lab rats of shady hydroponic manufacturers and distributors who falsely market Daminozide as "phytominerals", “citrates”, tartarates”, “arginates” and “rare earth elements”).



And see attachment.... Note: "Threat to public safety" (outlined in red)

 

[Hydrosun]

I know guys in the US who can use it and get sample into the lab in 6 weeks. The lab is based in Ca so ping me and I'll get it done to ensure qualitative analysis (including flush) that hasn't been tainted by a potential interest with a counterpoint to prove. Speaking of which I'll contact the lab now and ask if they have yet run any tests to date and see if they have data.

Just put the labs data right here in an open public forum. It is a legal CA business and if it can help keep us informed deserves to get some business from this community.

I can send out a sample on Monday, no need to wait. My cannabis is exposed to Phospoload for 3 days in week 3. Weeks 1,2, 4 - 9 are Phospoload free.

If the lab results show harmful residual levels of Daminozide or UDMH I will discontinue using Phospoload.

 

[huniebeez]

Just put the labs data right here in an open public forum. It is a legal CA business and if it can help keep us informed deserves to get some business from this community.

I can send out a sample on Monday, no need to wait. My cannabis is exposed to Phospoload for 3 days in week 3. Weeks 1,2, 4 - 9 are Phospoload free.

If the lab results show harmful residual levels of Daminozide or UDMH I will discontinue using Phospoload.

Don't know if you've noticed HydroSun but the Feds about to rip Ca a new asshole re med and those involved in growing, sales and anyone else who is profiting. So I will not be posting the lab name for all to see. PM me. Oh and the stuff you are quoting is actually part of a PR spin that was created by te UniRoyal Chem Company. I.e.

Elizabeth Whelan and her organization, the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH), which had received $25,000 from Alar's manufacturer,[8] worked to establish a narrative of the Alar episode as a scare. The ACSH claimed that Alar and its breakdown product UDMH had not been shown to be carcinogenic. Whelan's campaign was so effective that today, "Alar scare" is shorthand among news media and food industry professionals for an irrational, emotional public scare based on propaganda rather than facts. There remains disagreement about the appropriateness of the response to Alar, but daminozide is classified as a probable human carcinogen by the EPA and is listed as a known carcinogen under California's Prop 65,[8] while its breakdown product UDMH is listed as Prop 65 carcinogen and IARC classifies it as "possible" carcinogen and EPA as a "probable" carcinogen.[9]

Definitely the dangers of Alar were somewhat beat up in the 60 Minutes story that exposed Daminozide as a "potent human carcinogen". In fact it is shown to be an animal carcinogen and a "probable human carcinogen" (of course humans being animals/similar biology etc this evaluation is hilarious - that is if it is carcinogenic to animals it is carcinogenic to humans ). However:

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"Like most media myths, this one includes a fact or two. There was indeed an overreaction to the 60 Minutes report, as viewers confused a long-term cumulative threat with imminent danger. But Alar is a potent carcinogen, and its risks far outweigh its benefits. After extensive review, the Environmental Protection Agency decided in late 1989 to ban it because "long-term exposure to Alar poses unacceptable risks to public health."

Moreover, studies and reviews completed after the CBS story aired – including one by Uniroyal – confirmed the earlier ones the NRDC relied on, according to Jim Aidala, the EPA associate assistant administrator for pesticides. Alar, the trade name for daminozide, and its breakdown product during heating, UDMH, are animal and "probable human" carcinogens.

Besides the scientific evidence, 60 Minutes has been repeatedly vindicated in the federal courts. On April 29, the Supreme Court upheld without comment an appeals court decision dismissing a $250 million class-action suit filed in 1990 against 60 Minutes by a group of Washington state apple growers, alleging the show falsely disparaged their product (Auvil v. CBS "60 Minutes"). In October 1995, the appeals court had held that "the growers have failed to raise a genuine issue of material fact as to the falsity of the broadcast." A year earlier the district court had dismissed the case for essentially the same reason. [/FONT]

Note: [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif] "long-term exposure to Alar poses unacceptable risks to public health." [/FONT]Okay so let's say med users are being constantly exposed to low levels of UDMH. What is the outcome? Who the hell knows and that is the real problem. You are more than welcome to smoke as much of your own "herb" (albeit grown with a long banned chem so please it isn't herb) but for others who onsell to unsuspecting consumers that is a very different story. Let's take for example Avid. A little bit of exposure is probably not too much of a problem but long term exposure.. that's another thing (I used to spray Avid and other nasty chems all day long while working in Ag and hey I'm still fine right???!! Post hoc ad hoc = reductive bullshit not worth an iota in real terms). E.g.

"Harmful pesticides may be absorbed by the marijuana plant during cultivation and then enter the human body through administration. Repeated exposure to unknown chemical poisons may build to toxic levels in a user’s system. In one example from Hayward California, a well-known marijuana patient with an unusual immune disease died from repeated exposure to the miticide "Avid". Avid is now illegal to sell in the US, though it remains available from Canadian sources. Directed for used on ornamentals only..." from http://www.cannabismd.net/contaminants/


Here's a question I have. If indeed you are growing personal only and not on selling to unsuspecting consumers why would you even use a product like Phosphoload? Seems to me that it is greed that drives the use of these products and yet you are telling all that you only grow personal and consume all of your product yourself. ??? Somewhat perplexing.

 

[Hydrosun]

Dude you don't have 50 posts so no PMing will occur.

If the lab is in the yellow pages THEN their data can be posted here, however you are free to go to my page and post it as a visitor message.

The information I QUOTED from wiki was identified as such and the link was available to all. To correct your mistaken charge: my quoted section was the wiki write up of the subject NOT the wiki write up on the $25K spin campaign.

If MAY is all you have got "Harmful pesticides MAY be absorbed by the [cannabis] plant during cultivation and then enter the human body through administration." then a test is in order.

You never told us if the lab has data on these contaminates in cannabis.

I use phospolad in order to maximize the potential of my plants. I have spent years growing and smoking my own cannabis and the rational for all nutrients fed to my plants is the same. As I've stated I only use phospoload for three days and I use it at 12.5 - 25.0% of the recommended 1-2ml per L. The PPM of phospoload in the nute solution is low (less than 200PPM) and should be ZERO in the plant itself when consumed or tested.

 

[Green Supreme]

Like I said, blinders. Peace GS

 

[Dkgrower]

I am glad i stick with local organic products to make my buds...

Nice thread and pls the info flow

 

[Hydrosun]

Like I said, blinders. Peace GS

Your post didn't contribute a single fucking thing. There is no way that post is persuading anyone to take off their blinders and join your cult of nanny state worship.

How about you contribute ANY actual report from a lab RE: Cannabis and residual Damonizde levels? Or help explain to the blind what they can't see.

Perhaps you can show us a study that demonstrates high cancer rates among apple farmers who used Alar by the truck load for several DECADES. If this stuff really is dangerous those apple farming fucks should be one giant cancer tumor.

 

[Green Supreme]

Little analogy for you. I used to work in the phone industry. I worked with a lot of diesel techs and when brought up pcb's to them they would laugh. "I been up to my elbows in those for years. If it was bad I would be riddled with cancer by now". Sound familiar? Well over the next 10 years these dudes dropped like flies and yes they were riddled with cancer. A carcinogen is that. The quantity is not the issue. If you can choose not to use it then where does logic lie? Promoting it for yourself is a choice, but saying it is ok for sick, because the quantities are small. Well that is a choice no one should make for some one else. Think what you want, minimizing the evil is also a choice. The fact that a company knowingly used these products and tricked consumers into buying and using it shows a lots about the company. Let alone the folks that promote it after knowing of it's presence.

You are entitled to your opinion as I mine. I prefer not to get aggressive and swearing does not strengthen your position. Peace GS

 

[Hydrosun]

I don't get the lack of reports on tested cannabis. I have already offered to send off some of my personal to get it tested and will gladly scan in the report and post it.

The reason I refuse to remove 100% of carcinogens from my life is simple: There are too many of them and some I wouldn't give up because I enjoy them. According to the state of CA and many studies grilling meat imparts carcinogens into the air. Well I love being around a BBQ grill and don't want to give it up.

I do not smoke cigs, however I am occasionally exposed to 2nd hand smoke from friends / family / public. Pretty sure this 2nd hand smoke is well more dangerous than any risk I face from Alar positive cannabis (NOTE: we still don't have a lab test showing contamination).

These are my choices and blinders but I've already stated a willingness to change if a trusted lab shows my cannabis contains residual Alar.

 

[Avinash.miles]

ya i stopped using bloombastic and gravity and wouldn't use andy dragonskeet or anything w these pgrs in it, bcuz evenif u like them the shops will eventually have to stop carrying them bcuz of these harmful ingredients, so its no use getting attatched to some additive that is prolly gonna get the product banned.... yup

 

[huniebeez]

Contact

Contact

Dude you don't have 50 posts so no PMing will occur.

If the lab is in the yellow pages THEN their data can be posted here, however you are free to go to my page and post it as a visitor message.

The information I QUOTED from wiki was identified as such and the link was available to all. To correct your mistaken charge: my quoted section was the wiki write up of the subject NOT the wiki write up on the $25K spin campaign.

If MAY is all you have got "Harmful pesticides MAY be absorbed by the [cannabis] plant during cultivation and then enter the human body through administration." then a test is in order.

You never told us if the lab has data on these contaminates in cannabis.

I use phospolad in order to maximize the potential of my plants. I have spent years growing and smoking my own cannabis and the rational for all nutrients fed to my plants is the same. As I've stated I only use phospoload for three days and I use it at 12.5 - 25.0% of the recommended 1-2ml per L. The PPM of phospoload in the nute solution is low (less than 200PPM) and should be ZERO in the plant itself when consumed or tested.

Contact <[email protected]> SC Laboratories

safety test used HPLC/ MS/ MS (specify that you are looking for PBZ and Damonozide residues)

And yes Hydrosun I recognised the wiki stuff so added the part you had left out. You of course know how wiki works don't you? Anyone can edit or add info there. Journos avoid it as a source of info because too often the info is biased or incorrect. At one point Wiki only had the PR spin but since then others have added info and edited the PR spin with other inportant info. You took the PR spin and left out other valuable info so I added it to complete your spin (albeit from another source).

One thing - you said: "I use phospolad in order to maximize the potential of my plants. I have spent years growing and smoking my own cannabis and the rational for all nutrients fed to my plants is the same. As I've stated I only use phospoload for three days and I use it at 12.5 - 25.0% of the recommended 1-2ml per L. The PPM of phospoload in the nute solution is low (less than 200PPM) and should be ZERO in the plant itself when consumed or tested."

You're kidding right? Even advocates for using Phosphoload admit it reduces resin production. Everybody has known this since 2001 when Superbud was being hyped (banned in 2003 but available in Aus under hydro store counters and relabeled Phopshoload in the US and Canada). It is also a well known fact that PBZ reduces resin production - even Steve Berlow the inventor of Superbud and now Flower Dragon peddlar admits this. I.e. Here's an email from Steve Berlow responding to questions asked of him by a distribtor of Flower Dragon in the Czech Republic after he was alerted to the fact he was selling Daminozide and PBZ. The email was sent to me asking for my response. You'll note what a lying sack of shit Steve Berlow is when you compare what is said in this email to the lab data I first posted at http://www.integralhydro.com/flowerdragon.html and have subsequently plastered through myself and others on forums around the globe.

“Re: Flower Dragon
(name edited)
I think to better explain Flower Dragon and what it is and to allay some misconceptions we really need to look first at what Paclobutrazol is and what it isn’t so you can be better informed. It seems that the action
Firstly Paclobutrazol is a safe product to use and is used on many crops worldwide including; Avocadoes, Peaches, Cherries, and Mangoes – in fact it is more safe than many of the chemical salts used to make regular nutrients for the plants. People who say that Paclobutrazol is unsafe or unhealthy to use are misinformed and should look to correct scientific data and not the growers forums for their information – LOL!
The LD50 or the amount needed to give rats to cause death in 50% of them is 5,400mg.kg of weight. For a human this would equal 378,000mg or almost ½ a kilogram for an average person! Compare this to the LD 50 of say Potassium Nitrate, a commonly used salt in every hydroponic fertilizer of 3,500mg/kg.
This mean that potassium nitrate is 50% more poisonous or deadly than Paclobutrazol!!! But of course we know that Potassium Nitrate is not poisonous or dangerous to us in normal amounts - so it is easy to see how ridiculous these health scares for paclobutrazol is.
So now for Paclobutrazol and growing of resinous plants.
Paclobutrazol is a very poor choice for providing the plants as it severs ( disconnect ) the pathway responsible for producing the resins – the gibberilic pathway.
The gibberilic pathway is also responsible for the upward growth of the plant. So paclobutrazol is good for controlling the height but not for resin plants as it stops the production of resin also!
An easy way to see for the use of paclobutrazol is to see that the plant does not produce very much resin at all!
So we can see this is maybe a good choice for the height control but not if the plant you want to grow also makes resins. So now that we know a little of the background of Paclobutrazol let us look at Flower Dragon
Flower Dragon was never designed as a height control product. It was designed as a product that can make the flowers much larger with more resins – that are of high quality. The fact that Flower Dragon can control the height is a secondary benefit but not the main features or why Flower Dragon was design. The simple fact that Flower Dragon makes the plants produce much resin demonstrate that Flower Dragon is not a paclobutrazol based product.
Flower Dragon uses a different method to make the flowers larger and the plant produce more resins. For this we need to make the gene expression. The gene expression control how plants ( and animals and people ) can grow and develop in certain ways. For this we need to make the target genes produce more peptides and other compounds – such as sterols ( up-regulate ) that make for resin increases and to make other target genes make less compounds ( down-regulate ) to allow the flowers to be larger. This regulation occurs within the Shikimic Pathway ( which also regulate the production of gibberlinins ). By allowing for both up and down regulation of the genetic expression we can produce the results which are desired to us ( bigger flowers with more resin ). The part that gibberilin play in this is that for the flowers to develop fully – the production of gibberilin should slow – but not completely stop- this is important as gibberilins are also important in the production of resins and for the expansion of the cell membranes - but too much gibberilin make the flowers not grow as we would like.
The important compounds that Flower Dragon uses is 2 proprietary compounds develop by us.
One is what is generally known as an Arginine ligated triazole compound. The specific type and structure of this compound is of course a trade secret to us and so unfortunately Tomas we cannot disclose the precise nature of this compound – for it would then be easy for others to copy. The other is what is known as a quinalone type compound. Of course once again the exact type is also a trade secret to us. It maybe be a business mistake for me to disclose even this much of the secret and make it easier for others to copy but I know you have customers who would like some answers. I can assure you that both of the compounds are quite safe – in fact I regularly consume product that has been grown with Flower Dragon. I do this with pride!
The other ingredients are there to support phosphorus mobility and metabolisn. These include Citrates and Tartarates.
Citrates and tartarates are carboxylate anions that assist the plant in mobilising and uptaking phosphorus and metal ions. The main citrates - Citrate Succinate Citrate Acetate and Citrate Lactate – are very effective at making phosphorus more soluble and mobile. This allows the plant to have a constant supply of bio available phosphorus during times of heavy flower production.

Now for the strange stories that you have read on the internet by a guy whom I believe is a crazy guy - a guy called G. Low
This guy is a journalist who used to work in a hydroponic store in Australia ( maybe because he could not get work as a journalist>? ). He was used by several owners of different nutrient companies to make a scare campaign on the internet for a product called Super bud. This product was made by a company that I use to work for called Dutch Master.
The only things in his story that are true are;
Yes - I used to work for Dutch Master
Yes – I was responsible with Dr Deepak for the development of all the Dutch Master Products. In fact Dr Deepak was my personal tutor for 5 years!
Yes – I was the person behind much of the success of the Dutch Master products.”
[End Quote]

"The important compounds that Flower Dragon uses is 2 proprietary compounds develop (sic) by us." Hahaha yep Steve Berlow legend in his own lunch box developed PBZ and Daminozide as a "world leading" chemist. HydroSun every time you buy Phosphoload these are the types of scum you are supporting. Well done - you're a credit to the culture!


So how is growing an inferior tainted product maximizing the potential of your plants? And in your case the test with the lab will not represent actual usage rates. That's fine we have set up a proper control where it will be used at the recommended rates and in several ways including the double hitter Flower Dragon recommends. Hit me with your results and I'll post mine when we have them in a couple of months.

 

[huniebeez]

ya i stopped using bloombastic and gravity and wouldn't use andy dragonskeet or anything w these pgrs in it, bcuz evenif u like them the shops will eventually have to stop carrying them bcuz of these harmful ingredients, so its no use getting attatched to some additive that is prolly gonna get the product banned.... yup

I think it's important not to tar all manufacturers with the same brush and over sensationalise this. As far as I know Bloombastic doesn't contain chem PGRs.I personally know Erwin Rossario from Atami and it is unlikely that he would ever use anything like PBZ or Daminozide in one of his products. Unlike many of the cretins in the hydro industry he is a qualified chemist and does serious research. Then of course PGR refers to a wide range of things including even certain kelps. For instance Acadian has a kelp registered with the EPA. PGRs are things like auxins and cytokinins which can be naturally found in various organic matter such as kelp. There is also Triacontanol etc which are PGRs (plant growth regulators). The major problem with chem PGRs as flowering additives is the rates they are used at and the period they are used at combined with withholding periods. Hydrosun tells us it is very different spraying apples with Daminozide than it is using it in the nutes at week 3. This only shows he has very little understanding of systemic pesticides which are uptaken through the roots and translocated throughout the plant - so whether applied via foliar or through roots it is the same outcome (ie. UDMH is residual in plant tissue/cells) - application rates and times become the important thing. Swiss research (1991) after the banning of Daminozide found 0.7ppm of UDMH in one apple growers product, likely as a result of the "illegal use of Daminozide". http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00001a035

HydroSun I've contacted the lab for prices. I have a grower who is going to use Phosphoload (actually I'll brew it for him for about $10 based on their ppm of Daminozide and PBZ in formulation) and we'll report our findings also. I look forward to seeing the results next to yours.

 

[Hydrosun]

One thing - you said: "[/FONT]I use phospolad in order to maximize the potential of my plants. I have spent years growing and smoking my own cannabis and the rational for all nutrients fed to my plants is the same. As I've stated I only use phospoload for three days and I use it at 12.5 - 25.0% of the recommended 1-2ml per L. The PPM of phospoload in the nute solution is low (less than 200PPM) and should be ZERO in the plant itself when consumed or tested."

You're kidding right? Even advocates for using Phosphoload admit it reduces resin production. Everybody has known this since 2001 when Superbud was being hyped

I'll contact the lab guy tonight and set something up for tomorrow.

I re-examined the phospoload instructions. It calls for 2 - 4ml per L which is 7.6 - 15ml per gallon. Well I only use 1ml per gallon which is 1/8th - 1/16th of the recommended dosing, and I only use it for two to three days (not weeks).

I don't care what everybody knows, unless it is the truth. I know that Phosopload as recommended is TERRIBLE for my plants. I know phospoload in very low single dose application does wonders for the flower.

I'll also ask the lab to test for potency (as many cannibnoids as possible), and post those results here as well.

Yes I know how wiki works and so I don't believe EVERYTHING I read there, just like I don't always Know what EveryBody Knows

 

[huniebeez]

I'll contact the lab guy tonight and set something up for tomorrow.

I re-examined the phospoload instructions. It calls for 2 - 4ml per L which is 7.6 - 15ml per gallon. Well I only use 1ml per gallon which is 1/8th - 1/16th of the recommended dosing, and I only use it for two to three days (not weeks).

I don't care what everybody knows, unless it is the truth. I know that Phosopload as recommended is TERRIBLE for my plants. I know phospoload in very low single dose application does wonders for the flower.

I'll also ask the lab to test for potency (as many cannibnoids as possible), and post those results here as well.

Yes I know how wiki works and so I don't believe EVERYTHING I read there, just like I don't always Know what EveryBody Knows

You seem to put a very interesting spin on things. Re Pload users - Everyone was denying that Pload and others contained carcinogens. Now they can't!!! The myth was that Pload contained PBZ which was claimed to be a carcinogen on forums. First off PBZ was not the key active - Daminozide is and is present at far higher levels than PBZ. PBZ is not shown conclusively to be a carcinogen. This said it hasn't been shown it isn't a carcinogen. Daminozide is shown to be an animal carcinogen and therefore is listed as a probable human carcinogen (and as a definite carcinogen in California). End of speculation. Debate over Now the debate becomes how much remains residual if any in the plant. Haha. PGR users will use any excuse they can to justify their actions. I must actually speak further to the lab as to whether they are using the right tests (gas chromatography with electron capture detection).

"I don't care what everybody knows, unless it is the truth. I know that Phosopload as recommended is TERRIBLE for my plants."

Yes the truth is important so I agree and absolutely Pload used at recommended rates is terrible stuff. Totally messes with resin (shite quality smoke) and is patently residual due to the terrible taste of the smoke and the burn on the throat and lungs. We'll run it at recommended rates and test this product for residual and THC etc next to a plant that hasn't had pload (qualitative measurement). I.e.

The only qualitative way to do this is to also test the same strain without the pload. So you would need to grow one plant without pload and one with pload with identical other factors. What strain are you growing?