"Remember, remember, the 5th of November." - Anonymous Hackers vs Los Zetas Cartel

[titoon29]

Nobody answered my question, what is a country you would rather live in?

I am not saying the USA is without sin, but more good has been done in the history of this country than bad. The "civilian" deaths of 10 different wars are in the millions may be true. However, when you compare the USA to Nazi Germany then you are talking about a nation that was trying to eradicate the jews. Sorry, but there is a big difference there.

Also, you guys took offence when I said that these "civilians" in Iraq are happy to die for the cause. Well? Is that not true? May not be accepted by the west, but Muslims are at war with the western society. These "civilians" hiding in churches and hospitals are fighting to kill Americans weather we are in Iraq or not. The world is at war, only time until people like you guys catch up.

Man this is the kind of speech I hear way too much from some american fellows... Too much CNN, to much war on terror, Red Alerts, I do understand where that comes from...

Muslims are at war with the western society, that is just NOT true. There is a bunch of crazy integrists that have just made their goal to blindly agress the US and kill citizens or soldiers in any coward way they can, but you CANNOT put that on the muslims. Most muslims are peaceful and do not hate you. Most muslims actually don't give a fuck about the US, till they start having soldiers and mercenaries showing up to tell them how to live.

It's always interesting how people put some divine jihad goal on every muslim, while they have never met a single one, nor have visited their countries, nor any idea what Islam is about.

100,000 civilians casualties in Iraq since 2003. Agent Orange in Vietnam. Guantanamo. more than 50% of your budget allocated to war and defense. CIA. Black Ops.

Time to kick your government out. It does not defend the noble principles that America was built on.

+++

 

[supermanlives]

i believe most people in generall ,want the same things reguardless where they come from and what god they worship. its the people in power/goverments screwing it all up

 

[Noobian]

Yes, I do think the 100k recorded dead in Iraq are happy having died to bullet and bomb fragments. According to their religion, they now have 70 virgins in heaven, or something like that. These people are enemy fighters, not civilians. Get a clue.

This is seriously the most ignorant thing I've EVER seen on IC Mag. You sir are stupid as FUCK

 

[rasputin]

Bullfrog, little less time on icmag (2K posts in less than a year? wtf?) and a little more time getting educated on the world around you. Repeating things you hear on Fox News is not intelligent or worthwhile, usually.

 

[Bullfrog44]

It is very hard to have a real conversation on the internet about this stuff. However, I am very educated in world affairs. I know you guys can say or believe other wise, but I don't have the time or the energy to take every post and argue it. However I do have to point out one post....

Man this is the kind of speech I hear way too much from some american fellows... Too much CNN, to much war on terror, Red Alerts, I do understand where that comes from...

Muslims are at war with the western society, that is just NOT true. There is a bunch of crazy integrists that have just made their goal to blindly agress the US and kill citizens or soldiers in any coward way they can, but you CANNOT put that on the muslims. Most muslims are peaceful and do not hate you. Most muslims actually don't give a fuck about the US, till they start having soldiers and mercenaries showing up to tell them how to live.

It's always interesting how people put some divine jihad goal on every muslim, while they have never met a single one, nor have visited their countries, nor any idea what Islam is about.

100,000 civilians casualties in Iraq since 2003. Agent Orange in Vietnam. Guantanamo. more than 50% of your budget allocated to war and defense. CIA. Black Ops.

Time to kick your government out. It does not defend the noble principles that America was built on.

+++

Your words: Muslims are at war with the western society, that is just NOT true. There is a bunch of crazy integrists that have just made their goal to blindly agress the US and kill citizens or soldiers in any coward way they can, but you CANNOT put that on the muslims. Most muslims are peaceful and do not hate you. Most muslims actually don't give a fuck about the US, till they start having soldiers and mercenaries showing up to tell them how to live.

My answer to this is are you crazy? The entire Muslim world right now is calling for a Caliphate under Shari-ll(sp) law. Do you even know what that means? If you do understand then please enlighten the rest of us, however I believe you have no idea.

My evidence to this is in Iran, Iraq, Libia, Tunisia, Egypt ext that are all united and calling for a Caliphate. I know, ya ya, to many different cultures to unite.......WAKE UP! The Muslim Brother hood (a organization that has been kicked out of more countries than the jews) is now in full control of Egypt and Lybia(sp) and so many other organizations in the middle east. Then take Iran who has 100's of thousands of people yelling "death to Isreal, death to America". Or maybe "Kill the Zionist" sounds more familiar? Or perhaps "First we will drive Israel into the sea, then we will kill the big Satan." All while they are developing nukes and begging somebody to attack their enrichment sights.

Iran has already said they have 10,000 rockets aimed at Israel right now if Israel decides to take preventive military actions against Iran's enrichment sights. But remember, they are not at war with the western society's, it is for energy right? Funny, don't they have a large supply of the worlds oil? Why would they need nuclear power? O yea, they are not preparing for war of any kind......

With poles I have seen taken across the middle east, the majority of people want Shari-ll law under a Caliphate. That is just fact.

Your words: It's always interesting how people put some divine jihad goal on every muslim, while they have never met a single one, nor have visited their countries, nor any idea what Islam is about.

You are funny. I live in the bay area in California, USA. I got every kind of flavor you can imagine all around me. Blacks, Latinos, Whites, Gays, Muslims, Christians.........If you for some reason took what I said as being a bigot, I have to disagree. I am only commenting on the state of the world, not my personal feelings. I know I don't speak for every Muslim, but neither do you. My comments come from reports I have read and stories I follow. BTW, I have been to 3 different Muslim countries, and you?

Your Words: 100,000 civilians casualties in Iraq since 2003. Agent Orange in Vietnam. Guantanamo. more than 50% of your budget allocated to war and defense. CIA. Black Ops.

It is funny that this is the third or forth time in this thread somebody has used those stats. The correct information would be 100,000 casualties of war. Some of those were civilians, most were enemy combatants. You think the army are just walking around killing people for fun out there? Who feeds you this information? Also, if the enemy fighters would stop attacking from churches and hospitals less civilians would be killed. Or maybe stop bombing with road side bombs that kill civilians. Like I said before, not that the U.S isn't at fault, but your facts are way off.

Your words: Time to kick your government out. It does not defend the noble principles that America was built on.

Amen! Restore America is the answer. I could not agree more.

Denmark
Iceland
Spain
Switzerland
South Africa
Singapore
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
Chili

I completely respect your opinion, but I would not trade the USA for any of those. Some are great countries, but some made me chuckle. For example Spain, great country but on the brink of collapse. (not that the USA isn't)

 

[OverEagerBeaver]

"The correct information would be 100,000 casualties of war. Some of those were civilians, most were enemy combatants. You think the army are just walking around killing people for fun out there?"

Actually the correct estimate would be, as best I could find "between 393,000 and 943,000 excess deaths have occured in the 2003 invasion and its aftermath, with 655 thousand the most likely estimate" up until 2006 when the last peer reviewed study was done that I could find.

Most of these causulties were caused by " that most of those violent deaths were caused by coalition air strikes"

This study was conducted by the Lancet Medical Journal and sourced from here http://www.iraqanalysis.org/

Care to source your info?

 

[Bullfrog44]

Let me tell you guys a little true story......


When this country was founded the first war that our country fought was against Muslims. Our trade boats were getting taken over by Muslim pirates in the name of "Jihad". The first taxes in this country, 20% were establish to pay off these Muslims, and in return we would receive free passage. Now we all know about Muslim ideology, they didn't care about us paying them, we were infidels. I believe it was Jefferson? that visited the leaders of these groups and asked, "what did we do to deserve this, and how can we stop it?" The response was simple, "In the name of Allah we must kill the infidels." (Infidels being anybody that didn't believe in Islam)

That is when the USA decided no amount of money, nothing would stop these people from attacking America. This is when the first military was developed. We were no longer farmers with guns, we were American soldiers.

I don't remember the facts exactly, but I think the war lasted 7 years. We dominated those wars just like we have in most wars since.

This story is from what I can remember and may be off in some parts. However the meat of the story is spot on, Google it.

 

[rasputin]

They were called the Barbary Wars, Bullfrog. Christopher Hitchens wrote about it, one of few modern writers to do so. We had soliders during the Revolution, but the Barbary Wars were instrumental in establishing a legit Navy.

It's certainly a part of American history that is unknown to most but that doesn't square with your comment about Iraqi's wanting to die or enjoying death by bullets and bomb fragments. Nice try, though.

 

[OverEagerBeaver]

I don't remember the facts exactly, .

Theres your problem...

Oh and infidel is an interesting word seeing as it was first used by Christians to describe anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ Lord and Savior (Jews and muslims mainly) and only later co opted by muslims (to describe Jews and Christians) after the crusades...

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

It is very hard to have a real conversation on the internet about this stuff. However, I am very educated in world affairs. I know you guys can say or believe other wise, but I don't have the time or the energy to take every post and argue it. However I do have to point out one post....



Your words: Muslims are at war with the western society, that is just NOT true. There is a bunch of crazy integrists that have just made their goal to blindly agress the US and kill citizens or soldiers in any coward way they can, but you CANNOT put that on the muslims. Most muslims are peaceful and do not hate you. Most muslims actually don't give a fuck about the US, till they start having soldiers and mercenaries showing up to tell them how to live.

My answer to this is are you crazy? The entire Muslim world right now is calling for a Caliphate under Shari-ll(sp) law. Do you even know what that means? If you do understand then please enlighten the rest of us, however I believe you have no idea.

My evidence to this is in Iran, Iraq, Libia, Tunisia, Egypt ext that are all united and calling for a Caliphate. I know, ya ya, to many different cultures to unite.......WAKE UP! The Muslim Brother hood (a organization that has been kicked out of more countries than the jews) is now in full control of Egypt and Lybia(sp) and so many other organizations in the middle east. Then take Iran who has 100's of thousands of people yelling "death to Isreal, death to America". Or maybe "Kill the Zionist" sounds more familiar? Or perhaps "First we will drive Israel into the sea, then we will kill the big Satan." All while they are developing nukes and begging somebody to attack their enrichment sights.

Iran has already said they have 10,000 rockets aimed at Israel right now if Israel decides to take preventive military actions against Iran's enrichment sights. But remember, they are not at war with the western society's, it is for energy right? Funny, don't they have a large supply of the worlds oil? Why would they need nuclear power? O yea, they are not preparing for war of any kind......

With poles I have seen taken across the middle east, the majority of people want Shari-ll law under a Caliphate. That is just fact.

Your words: It's always interesting how people put some divine jihad goal on every muslim, while they have never met a single one, nor have visited their countries, nor any idea what Islam is about.

You are funny. I live in the bay area in California, USA. I got every kind of flavor you can imagine all around me. Blacks, Latinos, Whites, Gays, Muslims, Christians.........If you for some reason took what I said as being a bigot, I have to disagree. I am only commenting on the state of the world, not my personal feelings. I know I don't speak for every Muslim, but neither do you. My comments come from reports I have read and stories I follow. BTW, I have been to 3 different Muslim countries, and you?

Your Words: 100,000 civilians casualties in Iraq since 2003. Agent Orange in Vietnam. Guantanamo. more than 50% of your budget allocated to war and defense. CIA. Black Ops.

It is funny that this is the third or forth time in this thread somebody has used those stats. The correct information would be 100,000 casualties of war. Some of those were civilians, most were enemy combatants. You think the army are just walking around killing people for fun out there? Who feeds you this information? Also, if the enemy fighters would stop attacking from churches and hospitals less civilians would be killed. Or maybe stop bombing with road side bombs that kill civilians. Like I said before, not that the U.S isn't at fault, but your facts are way off.

Your words: Time to kick your government out. It does not defend the noble principles that America was built on.

Amen! Restore America is the answer. I could not agree more.



I completely respect your opinion, but I would not trade the USA for any of those. Some are great countries, but some made me chuckle. For example Spain, great country but on the brink of collapse. (not that the USA isn't)

actually the facts are there have been almost 10 times the death of civilians in iraq then there are enemy combatants AND US soldiers COMBINED.

On top of that it doesnt even count for those who have lost limbs and such like that. Its funny how people dont see that WE INVADED THEM not the other way around... If you know anything about our government the CIA and bin laden have been working together for over 20 years on multiple different projects. Bush which was the head of CIA before he was president was in charge of it all... Bush and osama's parents are long time friends and business partners. In fact the bin ladens have put the bushes were they are financially and politically.

the fact that you believe that 911 was a bunch or pissed of Muslims with ALL of the evidence out there is ridiculous. We Did a false flag operation on OURSELFS killed OUR CIVILIANS and then declared war on someone that worked for us. There is a Marine sniper that quit because he had bin laden in his scope over 25 times and never was given a kill shot.

open your eyes it sure the fuck is not the Muslim world but our greedy ass' behind the scenes need to control and do what ever we want government.... we have done this everywhere and intervened in everything thats why the rest of the world hates us....

 

[mrcreosote]

Theres your problem...

Oh and infidel is an interesting word seeing as it was first used by Christians to describe anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ Lord and Savior (Jews and muslims mainly) and only later co opted by muslims (to describe Jews and Christians) after the crusades...

Oh Dear,
Mohammed and all those fellows who translated the Koran are going to be disappointed when they find out about that.

 

[OverEagerBeaver]

care to explain? I dont think my etymology is off but I'm happy to be proven wrong?

 

[Critter]

Saying your not a bigot cause you live alongside racially diverse people is a ridiculous statement. I wonder how many times you wish they would just go home.
Us "Americans" need to go home, this was the native Americans and Mexicans country before we wiped and chased most of them out of it.

The civilian innocent lives that have been lost and taken in the last 10 years as collateral damage is appalling. Under your thinking and philosophy infants and toddlers are infedel hating Muslims who are at war with us and deserve to die just because they're parents are Muslim. :shakehead: Ridiculous.
Take a step back and look all your thoughts and evidence, they are propaganda and brainwashing and fear marketing.
It doesn't take America to have peace and unity and good things to happen in the world. No amount of collateral damage is "worth it"

 

[mrcreosote]

Well it is not exactly a news flash that when a book is translated from Arabic to Western languages that, surprisingly enough, contain many Romanic roots, that one would find a form of fidelis or faithful among those languages.

You are, indeed, correct that infidel is not an Arabic word. It is however the the word Arabic and English translators of the Prophet use to describe an unbeliever or someone not of the faith.
Accuracy of the Prophets utterances is THE primary concern for a translator for reasons far beyond academic.

Mohammed never called anyone an infidel. His English was lousy.

 

[Bullfrog44]

They were called the Barbary Wars, Bullfrog. Christopher Hitchens wrote about it, one of few modern writers to do so. We had soliders during the Revolution, but the Barbary Wars were instrumental in establishing a legit Navy.

It's certainly a part of American history that is unknown to most but that doesn't square with your comment about Iraqi's wanting to die or enjoying death by bullets and bomb fragments. Nice try, though.

Yup, there ya go. The Barbary Wars. Good call on that one. And going back to the "Iraqi's" comment.....I wasn't commenting on Iraqi's, I was commenting on the people fighting in Iraq. A large amount of those fighters are Muslims that believe in Sharia law under a Caliphate. Under those believes if you die fighting Jihad, then you will die and go to heaven with 72 virgins. Right?

So going back to the original question.........

lol just semantics bro, you really think the over 100k recorded dead civilians in iraq are happier having died to bullets and bomb fragments than a gas chamber? But hey who am i to question you, since you were here before america.

I will answer the same. Yes I believe the Muslim fighters are happier being killed fighting what they consider to be a Jihad than a Jewish civilian stuck in a gas chamber after being torture and starved for months. How would you answer that question?


Like I said, I could go on for ever with you guys over this. I feel I made my point clear. You guys made your points clear. I hope you all have a good weekend.

 

[grozzef]

i said civilians, not fighters.

 

[Bullfrog44]

Saying your not a bigot cause you live alongside racially diverse people is a ridiculous statement. I wonder how many times you wish they would just go home.
Us "Americans" need to go home, this was the native Americans and Mexicans country before we wiped and chased most of them out of it.

Ok, lets go over this one more time just because I dont like to be called a bigot.

Your words: It's always interesting how people put some divine jihad goal on every muslim, while they have never met a single one, nor have visited their countries, nor any idea what Islam is about.

You are funny. I live in the bay area in California, USA. I got every kind of flavor you can imagine all around me. Blacks, Latinos, Whites, Gays, Muslims, Christians.........If you for some reason took what I said as being a bigot, I have to disagree. I am only commenting on the state of the world, not my personal feelings. I know I don't speak for every Muslim, but neither do you. My comments come from reports I have read and stories I follow. BTW, I have been to 3 different Muslim countries, and you?

Can you quote where I said "because I live in the bay that makes me a non bigot?" I got accused of "never met a single one, nor have visited their countries." So in response I pointed out I lived in a populated area that is very diverse. Proving that I have in fact met a Muslim. Then if you notice I also pointed out I have visited Muslim countries. So I ask again, can you quote where I said "because I live in the bay that makes me a non bigot"? I find your comment lacking any facts, and shame on you for wasting 10 min of my life having to explain something that has already been explained three times now. It must be nice to sit back and make up shit on the internet and stir up crap for no reason........WTF!

 

[OverEagerBeaver]

No its not a news flash Infidel supplants the arabic word qafir in English translation. Qafir in its original context as best I can determine translates as nonbelievers of the One God or Polytheistic believers. As Christians and Jews believe in monotheism they are not Qafir translated to infidel in its original context, seeing as we're so concerned with Accuracy right.

Make sense?

 

[rasputin]

Now you make a point to type 'Muslim fighters' instead of saying 100K civilians enjoyed dying, Bullfrog?

Interesting choice of words, however the quoted estimates include civilian casualties and, though I cannot be certain - who can?, I would argue not all of them died as religious zealots doing Allah's work.

Your perception of Iraqi society and the insurgents operating within it is very simplistic and not representative of the day to day reality. We're talking about one of the most secular societies in the Middle East and you'd have us believe they are all terrorists.

Have a good weekend as well.

 

[titoon29]

Bullfrog,

I must say I am impressed by your knowledge.

I don't know the Shari-II(sp) law, but yes I have heard people calling for a Government based on Sharia. I am not expert in Islam nor in International Relationships. But I do follow up with the flashing news and the objective one and try to understand the facts here as much as possible. I also have some friends I studied a long time from Marocco, Algeria.

I also have a bunch of friends that I met during my trips, including americans, that have been in countries where nobody would even think to go when you are american. Iran, Pakistan, you name it. I know nobody in Iraq though, wonder why...

Anyway back on subject after this background,

I feel sorry for you that all this knowledge tricks you into believing in hate and fear of what is different. There was and there is no need for war, War will only bring War.
This agressive politic will only bring out the worse of everybody, but I guess some people have financial interest in this matter. Money rules.

What I hear a lot from American fellow I meet these days, is this simple phrase, We are not our government. And I do totally understand their point, that is the truth. And if you go to this Arabic countries and you speak with the people than you will know for sure.
To make sure, did you live in those Arabic countries ? Because I do agree traveling gives you a hint of what another country is, but until you live among the locals then there is no way you can understand what's in stake. That's why I don't understand most people ^^

I have a close friend, american, girl, that has been travelling to a lot of Arabic country (yes slightly crazy hey^^), and she has made the choice to live among the locals for periods of 6 months - 1 year. She spent 1 year in Marocco, 1 year in Nepal, and many short trip among various Muslim communities in India, Indonesia. She stayed in villages in Vietnam where Agent Orange has made 50% of the population handicaped, at 17 years old. Some of the kindest people on earth she said. She never felt threatened except of course some hassle from some intense muslims guys who can act weird sometimes. of she has to respect muslim tradition such as covering her hair, etc...

We should all chill out and try to do peace instead of fighting for energy, money.
This is not for our survival anymore it is for our 70k Car, our weekly business trip to Asia, our petrol to go work everyday to buy some more shit.

On a strategic point of you, our elites have probably threatened so many people, countries, that it could blow up one day, so they have to be prepare to bomb up in return. And on and on...

I haven't got back to all your points, I have to go to sleep, and I think we both have our point of view (I still hope I am right though ^^), and understood each other which is the goal. You probably have read the same facts as I do.

If I was not clear please let me know my english can be tricky sometimes !

Man I am happy to have smoked this Cheese tonight