all the retarded shit that i see people adding to their grows just drives me up a wall... then they claim its doing something... but when i look at their plants they either insist on taking macro pics or when they do take full plant shots their shit is obviously fucked up... additives are fucking useless...
Canna Coco A+B and nothing else but water...
- Thread starter Oggy
- Start date
wow this is so so so kick ass dude.
This can be true but it is unfortunately misleading.
The only real issue I have with Canna Coco A+B is that, as stated on the website, it is formulated for use with tap water which contains a variable amount of other elements not contained in their Macro-system.
Depending on tap water is an issue because one municipal may not have anywhere near the same contaminants as another. Water from sources in metropolitan areas is often recycled and will contain all sorts of things, from selenium to birth control to hexavalent chromium to asprin. Even the variance between the amount of sodium in one supply could spell disaster for some growers.
To say that "it worked for me, therefore, it will work for you" is erroneous, misleading, and to the degree that it is malicious despite the intent. Inexperienced growers may see the results here and take them at face-value without understanding the myriad of variables required to coalesce for healthy growth.
With a cation rich media like coco it is most important that the grower work to maintain the balance between the primary cations required for growth. Namely, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, and NH4. Excess sodium in the water supply, or insufficient iron, are the number 1 causes of issues when running a simple system and as a result many growers are under a requirement to supplement specific elements to maintain healthy growth as the tap water they are using is ill suited.
The only element that Canna A+B really, REALLY, needs is iron. Though required in low levels <7ppm if the element is not present enough to compete for uptake with more abundant cations growers will see a slowing of vigor and yellow colored new growth. One of the primary advantages to Botanicare's Cal-Mag Plus is the 0.1% Iron EDTA, which when using filtered water (or say, the 0.06ec water of the Pacific Northwest) is pretty much a necessity.
I have recently found Cutting Edge Solutions Micro from their GMB system contains a greater amount of elements and multiple sources of chelated iron for the same cost. This reduces the volume needed for supplementation (to like 1-2ml per gallon). In addition to iron supplementation for soft water sources the addition of silicon has made a dramatic impact to the size of my plants, especially in the strength of stems and their ability to support larger flowers later into life (requiring less support and enduring less stress).
I have also found Fulvic Acid to be an extremely effective chelator and pH down replacement (for those who pH down their solutions) The organic acids may also have contributed to the improved flavors I've found in my strains. Finally, to help root growth I use a proven system of kelp extracts which contain their own source of iron (although they suffer from a good deal of sodium as well) and cytokinens and auxins. These amino-acids and hormones interact with the root tips causing explosive growth and this is well known and documented in horticulture groups. I use General Organics BioWeed at 2ml/gallon ($12/quart) through the stretch period. It also helps keep internode distances shorter.
In addition to these supplements, Canna Coco A+B is formulated to accommodate the addition of 0-2-1 Cannazym during flowering. This addition of PK is necessary; CANNA knows it and that is why they re-formulated the system about 3 years ago. Instead of a 0-2-1 at 10ml per gallon, I use Botanicare Hydroplex 0-10-6 at 2ml per gallon for the same addition to the ppm levels of Phosphorus and Potassium. As the coco ages potassium will be made available to the plant although some strains benefit from greater amounts of K, especially during flowering or in higher temperature environments.
In conclusion...
1. Yes. If your water source is dialed perfectly, with the right amount of Calcium and Iron without much Sodium then all you need is Canna A+B.
2. Do not assume your water is perfect, especially if you live in or near a city that uses reclaimed water.
3. If using filtered water expect to need to supplement iron. You won't find ANY in Canna Coco A+B, or in your water, so you gotta get that element from somewhere...
There is a time an place for all supplements.
Haters got to hate.
Silicon is good stuff in coco. So are kelp extracts. Fulvic acid is a great pH down replacement if you are looking for one (in place of GH phosphoric acid). You can save money if you get a 0-10-6 instead of a 0-2-1.
Be smart. Don't underestimate yourself. 1ml of 1% is ~2.654 ppm. Calculate out your ppm and watch what the community is doing. Even the "Low P" crowd is rocking somewhere between 25ppm on the low end and 60ppm on the high end of phosphorus. Personally, I concern myself more about Magnesium and have been using ~1/4tsp per gallon of Epsom Salt during flowering to keep that element competitive with increased levels of potassium as the calcium cation bank is filled.
And that's my opinion on supplements and Canna A+B. Let the haters hate on your kelp and fulvic. Until they try it they just don't know.
Great thread and plants Oggy, lots of interesting ideas from Snow Crash there too.
I have been trying GHE Mineral Magic, there is, for me, an ongoing issue with old plants [8 months and more] being "brittle" and also getting stem rot, Silica keeps on getting mentioned as a solution.
I have been trying GHE Mineral Magic, there is, for me, an ongoing issue with old plants [8 months and more] being "brittle" and also getting stem rot, Silica keeps on getting mentioned as a solution.
C
cheesey
do a side by side grow with boosts and root additives
I did thats why i use additives every grow .
final yeild was 30% plus more with the additives
head masta , potash , regen a root
good luck
C
cheesey
fucked up ?? realy ?
you are right you dont have too use additives but if you want maxamum yeild from your plants you need too.
Strangely
Member
We have good tap water up here so pretty much stick to just A+B. I do have a Q regarding straight coco though... I have a small wick system but some of the strains I'm growing these days don't throw out roots quick enough to work well with the wick system without top watering etc (have found a wilted girl a couple of times). So I was wondering shall I just use the larger res container as my medium container and just grow in there with straight coco? Or would an inch or two of perlite at the bottom be beneficial? Small container only about 30cm x 20cm x 20cm.
Great thread Oggy love the general principal. I'm all about KISS and low maintenance.
Great thread Oggy love the general principal. I'm all about KISS and low maintenance.
Try an inch or two of GrowStones on the bottom. Roots treat them similar to how plants climb up stucco walls. They kind of spiderweb around the stones and get the root tips up in there. I love the things, since using them as an aeration amendment my root growth has significantly improved.
zeke99
Active member
Don't take it personally that I rated your post as not helpful.
This statement - "you are right you dont have too use additives but if you want maxamum yeild from your plants you need too" is flat-out wrong and sounds like something out of a magazine advertisement.
Maximum yields are dependent on environment + strain / variety + good quality water + a complete fertilizer. Additives are for people that don't use a complete fertilizer. Why a grower wouldn't just use a complete fertilizer to begin with is beyond me.
C
cheesey
guess you are not a coco user
so can you tell me a brand of complete fertilizer for coco coir please with added pk ect ect .
zeke99
Active member
.....Edited DD: TOU....
........If you think products such as Jacks and Peters hydro formulas don't work with the coco medium.......
... feel free to check out the PPK thread linked in my sig to see maximum yields in coco using a complete and inexpensive fertilizer. That's just one of many examples.
Last edited by a moderator:
Purple_trees
New member
lets see some updates!! and you guys that say you use additives, care to include which ones? Would love to see side by side coco A/B w/ additives vs. coco just A/B
C
CannaBuilding
If you want to re-use your coco, you need some sort of enzyme so the dead roots dont turn into nasties that would otherwise fuxs up the new root system.
I must admit rhizotonic works wonders as well with growth rate.
I must admit rhizotonic works wonders as well with growth rate.
Old roots are unlikely to fuxs up a new root system whether you add enzymes or not. They may even work to provide aeration and drainage as they dehydrate, shrink, and start to breakdown.
Pine
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
How You Can Develop Cannabis To Do What You Want- Latest: CharlesU Farley
-
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
How You Can Develop Cannabis To Do What You Want
- Latest: CharlesU Farley
-
