12 x 8 Basement, Vertical barebulbs

[bobblehead]

And as for the people saying not to run 4K in that "small" of a space....B.S. run the four lights in a SQUARE configuration (the one I always post about on here recommending, and catch flack about because few people understand it.) Four lights in an equally spaced square, plants around the perimeter, bulbs 3-4 ft off the ground with more plants underneath. This is like stadium growing but even MORE efficient, with even lighting for all plants. For bonus points take big piece of square plywood, paint it white to make a "ceiling"/platform to mount the four bulbs on. This will act as a reflector to keep light from escaping upwards past your plants and thus going to waste. It will also allow you to raise your perimeter plants higher (so that the top of the plant is JUST below the reflector) thus ensuring maximum light exposure for each plant and ZERO stretch. You can then cut a hole in the center of the board, and put your 8" duct inlet there for the ventilation fan. Cool air inlets should be around the perimeter at the bottom, one or multiple ducts, with one Vortex blowing into the room if you have two fans. In this configuration hot air will NEVER be blown or flow towards the plants--it's drawn directly into the nearby duct inlet and evacuated with a minimum of heat transfer to the room.

This setup is tested and pr

oven, and is more efficient than many setups I see here.

Haters do your thing....can't wait to read all the replies telling me how wrong I am!

Like shcrews said, it's all about attitude... I didn't say you were wrong, I said that what I'm doing works. You're the only one accusing people of doing things WRONG. If you said "this is what I believe and this is why I believe it"... Combining your first post with the last, and leaving out the negativity...

So what do you suggest doing about radiant heat? Cause if I don't have air moving around my plants, they get fried. In my rooms, the plants grow toward the lamps, and not straight up and down. Maybe you could share some pics? I would love to be enlightened... Cause it seems to me if the bottom of my grow is cooler than the top, the goal has been achieved. The heat is still rising.

 

[megayields]

Yes enlighten us..I think everyone here is open to new ideas, PLEASE share some pictures with us.

Haters do your thing....can't wait to read all the replies telling me how wrong I am!

Btw comments like the one above are immature and unnecessary,but if you want to bring it...back it up.

 

[michmedclones]

Guys relax I don't want to start an argument I'm sure they both work but I am also curious about the radiant heat and also moving the plants with a breeze I have noticed a difference when there is a decent breeze vs no breeze in stalk girth as well as total yield more than one time. Do you guys think that the whisperline is useless for this room? If so I can use it in their 8 x 8 veg room to room that air into the flower room as another source of intake. If the whisperline can't be used should I use all the honeywells as well as some wall mounted all aiming twords the scrubber/vortex? Would it be insane to have the scrubber sitting in the middle of the plants? Its a big old scrubber weighs close to 60-75 lbs so I'm trying to avoid hanging it but I have a feeling if I have it in the corner there is going to be some lingering smell? 4 honeywells is going to keep the heat off the plants I'm virtually certain about that its just a matter of getting that hot air out. There is a small closet where the 55 gal res and ballasts are going, I could use that as a lung if need be but I'm not sure if that would over heat the ballasts since the closet is maybe 5x5. I appreciate all the responses once again I'll try some side by sides with them and report back my findings

 

[megayields]

I apologize to you mich...I'll shut up.

 

[gingerale]

Believe it or not I didnt actually mean to "start anything" or be an ass....so if my attitude seems off I apologize. It just irritates me when I post up good info that works and someone just dismisses it offhand. And I never was much of a social butterfly...haha. I think we can all agree there is too much negativity on these forums. I don't mean to attack anyone's way of doing things....but there IS a right way and a wrong way when it comes to making airflow work for you, or against you. Lots of people blow fans at their vertical bulbs to cool them, I see it recommended all the time, but it's just not a good idea.

I have a few pics of my setup to post up, but for illustration purposes only, as I don't claim that my current setup is yet close to the ideal that I'm advocating and striving for. I don't currently have my ventilation set up as described above. My previous 4k setup got seized and I now have two bulbs burning 2400W in the flower room. With less wattage in the room, less cooling is needed, so I didn't go through the extra work of installing an extraction duct between/above the bulbs. With 4k this is definitely needed.

http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac299/gingerale420/

In an effort to keep my previous setup cool I did a lot of experimenting with airflow, different fans, different ducting arrangements. What I found was, all the little details of how you set up the ventilation system, where/how you blow air in, where/how you extract it, the angles of duct entry/exit, duct sizing, all that stuff plays a huge role in determining airflow in your grow. In one setup you might have four fans blowing and still have temp problems, due to all the fans fighting each other and not working together in harmony, and in another identical setup you might stay much cooler with just one fan. And the fix for the bad setup could something dead simple like pointing a duct exit over to the side a few inches.

Just thought of a good analogy that is easy to visualize. Ever seen the movie Temple Grandin, where she develops a new cattle herding/processing facility that is way more efficient because the cattle are calmly, gently guided to where they need to go, using logic and sound principles of cattle behavior, instead of trying to stampede and rush and force as many through as fast as you can? That's exactly what to keep in mind when thinking about how the air flows in your garden. Smoother, calmer, straighter, more direct = better, more flow. Turbulence = significant loss in airflow and possible cooling problems.

Now, you mention radiant heat. I don't have a problem with it. My plants hang roughly 18-20" or so from the (1200W) bulb...doesn't burn them at all. Air is always constantly, gently moving pretty evenly through the grow. Besides the Vortexs I have a box fan on the floor, off the side pointed *around* the grow perimeter, set to low speed to keep air circulating when the big fans are off. When I said not to use oscillating fans and such, I didn't mean to imply no airflow is needed inside the grow. You most certainly do need/want a gentle breeze blowing in there to keep the plants healthy and cool. Stagnant air is something you definitely don't want. It's just that oscillating fans really do more harm than good, if the rest of your ventilation system is designed according to good principles. It just introduces random turbulence and unpredictable airflow patterns, which does reduce efficiency, even if you can't easily "see" it or measure it. In my size (or the OP's) space, the ventilation fans generate more than enough airflow inside the grow room, so there is no need to add additional fans.

Another quick example: My veg room is 1360W of HPS and MH, and stays cool with a SINGLE box fan. It's up in a closet in the attic. There is a window at each end of the attic so during the summer I open them up and let the wind blow through, but otherwise, I just have the one box fan sitting in the closet doorway. The key is, the fan is placed in EXACTLY the right spot, and the door is opened the EXACT amount needed to set up the PERFECT airflow into/out of the room. If I move either the door or fan even an inch, the whole system breaks down, total airflow is reduced, some parts of the room get too windy vs stagnant air in others, temps rise, and radiant heat can become a problem. You could say that my ventilation setup is "tuned" for this specific room...I think that's exactly the idea of what one should do.

 

[bobblehead]

A lot of your advise is good gingerale.. Direction of ducting/airflow does make a huge difference. I remember you now, b/c of your reflectors... Which are questionable. For all the talk about turbulent airflow... I would think that you wouldn't put something in the direct path of heat rising away from your lamps.

In your garden, you're ideas work. They wouldn't work the same in my garden, with stacked 600w lamps... Lets say instead of having that box fan pushing the air around your room, you put it under your lamps and gently assist the heat in rising... If it's not hitting your reflectors, you won't have turbulence... Because the air has been redirected by your exhaust at the top of the ceiling.

Rather than attempting to redirect the light and lose light intensity doing so... it makes more sense to bring the plants to the light, via screens, racks, shelves, w/e...

These are just some friendly thoughts... Not trying to criticize. It looks like what you do works and you have a nice garden. The canopy could be bigger though, or you could use smaller lamps and no need for reflectors.

 

[noobynubert]

temps in northern mich during winter i'd be surprised if it didnt get to cool lol