hemp streak virus? mosaic?

[the gnome]

I had switched to flora nova and its a lot more potent than the fertz they were use to
and getting more N.... so it is possible
nute lockout was my 1st thought also, so I used flora kleen+flushed

big dog... you said
""i had a problem like that a long time ago
and it was due to over watering and too much nitrogen/lockout.""

did your plants have the symptoms, and look like the one I have in the pic?

 

[BigDawg]

I don't recall how it looked in the early stage but in your post (#14) absolutely. It's not TMV in my opinion

 

[the gnome]

I don't recall how it looked in the early stage but in your post (#14) absolutely. It's not TMV in my opinion

whew!... well bigdawg, I sure hope thats what it is!
thats a BIG relief to hear what you said.

losing a crop that was ready to go into flower is bad enough
but knowing its not a highly contagious viral scourge that would shut down my grow sites for good is A VERY BIG relief!

your the 1st person in a month Ive been posting about this that has said they recognize these symptoms in the pic's and have actually seen it before and can even tell me with assured certainty what the heck causes it

 

[foomar]

Have seen the same extreme leaf curl symptom , turned out to be a low level root aphid infestation , stem eaten out disrupting water and nutes flow , worth checking with a 10x loupe.

Saw no fliers , stickey traps were clean , worse than mites but treatable unlike TMV.

 

[the gnome]

foomar, nute lockout and RAs are what I thought of initially,
I had gnats flying around so thats what got me to reading on the RA section in the infirmary
and really thought that was it initially.
looked with a 30x loupe and didn't see any.
most roots were white, except some staining from liquid karma but they looked healthy.
as the symptoms got more worse I thought of lock out more and more.
no pics of RA damage looked like what I was seeing.
AND
when the crop started with the fading and curling, nearly all of the plants went down nearly all together and fast fast, within a week, 4 different strains showed definite symptoms.
I'm thinking with RAs, all plants wouldn't go down in such an timely manner?

 

[RetroGrow]

If it's RAs, you should be able to see them, but sometimes it's difficult. You have to stare through a loupe for a couple of minutes sometimes before you see one move. If you break open a small corner of the root mass, you might see something. It does resemble the damage from RAs or off gassing. I don't think it's from what you are feeding them.
As Ganga Baba pointed out, it does look like fusarium wilt, which is spore based. This can wreak havoc in your garden. Do a bit of research on fusarium. If you Google it, you will see symptoms that look very similar.

 

[the gnome]

hey retro, I don't think its fusarium.
I have been handling these plants and then going to another site and if it was a spore based infection I would have had it at the other grow long ago.
bigdawg has had plants that were overfed causing extreme nute lock out and said his plants were identical to mine.
a month prior to this I ran out of nute and ordered a different brand,
flora nova and that stuff is hot, a lot more concentrated.
and I started running my ppms higher.
Ive never had probs using FF grow big at higher ppms

and another thing is,
all 60 plants became sick at the same time and showed symptoms.
within a week all of them were affected.
I really think its nute lock out or the water I was using. the place has a water softener system, but it has a by pass valve I used when collecting water for the holding tank.
maybe it wasn't working?
I'm not taking any chances and using another water source.
i'm getting my tmv test kit in today so i'll run that but I'm pretty sure now its not tmv

 

[RetroGrow]

Flora Nova is good stuff. Flora Nova Bloom is basically the Lucas formula. I have used it many times without issues, and I consider it the best or certainly one of the best nutrients. If it was over feeding, a good flush should take care of that, and the symptoms should improve right away. If flushing doesn't help, then I don't think it is over feeding. I have used Flora Nova as high as 1400 PPMs without problems, although that's not the norm. Usually, on small plants, I use 500 PPMs, which is about one teaspoon per gallon. Then I boost it as plants get larger.
What PPMs were you feeding?

 

[the gnome]

just to let the peeps who were following this I did the TMV test
and the results came out negative
so thats was a relief but I still don't know what caused the prob?

 

[foomar]

Hi gnome , good to hear its not tmv , there are related glasshouse viral pests unfortunately that would not be flagged by this test.

Not the culprit in your case but the symptoms look similar , could mistake them for several incorrect problems by which time they are established in the run and harder to remove.

 

[the gnome]

hey foo....
what is that plant pictured afflicted with?
looks a bit similar to mine

 

[foomar]

Thats a casey with root aphid damage to the mainstem below ground , looks similar to yours but unlikely given the way your problem progressed , my RA infestation slowly grew undiagnosed and spread over several months in a random way.

 

[RubeGoldberg]

Not once in this thread was pH discussed,

He was in fox farm soil, probably ocean forest, running GH flora, probably started feeding before the plants had used up the food already in the soil. Which is a super super super common point of failure with FF Ocean Forest or Happy Frog.

Sometimes these forums can be worse than fucking congolese tribesmen who think doctors are witches and raping babies cures aids.

People shouldn't start diagnosing mystery diseases and TMV before understanding pH, temperature, humidity, pests and the other factors that cause 99% of grow room fuck-ups

 

[the gnome]

hey foo...
yeah it was a relief on the neg results.
whats with the plant you have pic'd?
it does look similar to mine

 

[the gnome]

Not once in this thread was pH discussed,

He was in fox farm soil, probably ocean forest, running GH flora, probably started feeding before the plants had used up the food already in the soil. Which is a super super super common point of failure with FF Ocean Forest or Happy Frog.
Sometimes these forums can be worse than fucking congolese tribesmen who think doctors are witches and raping babies cures aids.
People shouldn't start diagnosing mystery diseases and TMV before understanding pH, temperature, humidity, pests and the other factors that cause 99% of grow room fuck-ups

hey rube, you asked early on in the 1st page about Ph.
Ph is ALWAYs the 1st thing I look at with a prob and Ph is good in my soil...I have a quality tester just for soil--> FFOF w/dolo,
I also Ph all water and fertz going in, Ph was good and solid all the way around.
my temps and huimdity were good,
I posted info on it somewhere in this thread.
lockout was a real possibility so i flushed eveything and went way low on the fertz but that was no help,
they kept getting worse.
I started thinking RAs, because i had some gnats flying around, ruled out that out after visual inspections with a loupe
since i was in a site with a water softener I looked into that, it has an on/off bypass but I still had the water tested for salt and that came out good.
I started thinking some type of off-gassing, took all plastics out that wern't a neccessity

so after clearing *all those possibilities* I started to looke at the more exotic *probs* and reading the sticky on TMV on 1st page post #7 showed a pic that looked very close to the symptoms i was having, take a look for yourself.
seeing that pic is the 1st time I actually saw something that accurately showed the symptoms I was having
BUT
I'm not sure if that pic is of a plant that actually has TMV.
personally I think nearly all the claims in the TMV sticky thread are due to other probs, not TMV.
I don't feel your witch doctor analogy comment really apply's in this case
if you directed at me?
regardless I methodically went through the list of common possibe probs before thinking TMV a possibility if you read all of this thread but i had to get the kit to rule it out,
i have several grow sites and needed to know if I was possibly infecting those sites as well before proceeding any further.
it was a well spent $27 for the kit imo.
very cheap peace of mind

I'm still thinking its some type of extreme lockout, im not sure what though.
when I quit using water and trucked it in from another source the new plants I brought in stopped
getting worse and they made it but I'm keeping a close eye on em

 

[Dave Coulier]

Gnome, you should get your media tested and see if that shows up any problems. While your at it, It wouldn't hurt to get your fertilizer solution tested as well. Hopefully, you can find a likely culprit in the results.

 

[the gnome]

hi dave, media? you mean soil?
I'm using the same soil for use at another site and no probs
same with the fertz.
I seriously think its the water source, when I quit using it, my probs stopped.
its they only thing that stands out as the culprit so far that I changed and a difference
was made? one member posted here big dawg? said his plants looked just like mine when he had an extreme lockout due to over ferting.

btw ...what kind of testing on fertz and soil are you recommending?

 

[foomar]

Hi Rube , seems a little excessive to compare child abuse with well intended advice on a canna forum , best to keep a sense of proportion or the real idiots will drive you mad.


Three other local rooms have root aphids now as it was not diagnosed early by the vague symptoms shown , ten years reputation for offering good plants in tatters over this , they all use a quarantine system that failed , unrooted cuts only from now on till sorted , nothing important lost and the list stands.

By observation the flying stage emerge when disturbed and crawl to the top of the plant and fly off towards light within a few minutes , they will not be found on stickey traps , will reinfect within a building from bubblers and houseplants.

If you see leaf symptoms like this that are NOT found to be down to overwatering or nute issues then i strongly recommend haveing a close look at the main root stem , split it to check no 2mm maggot is munching away within , could be several nodes above soil level.

Wish i had done this months ago , jumping to the obvious conclusions cost me a lot more than it should have done.

 

[Dave Coulier]

hi dave, media? you mean soil?
I'm using the same soil for use at another site and no probs
same with the fertz.
I seriously think its the water source, when I quit using it, my probs stopped.
its they only thing that stands out as the culprit so far that I changed and a difference
was made? one member posted here big dawg? said his plants looked just like mine when he had an extreme lockout due to over ferting.

btw ...what kind of testing on fertz and soil are you recommending?

Yep, media=soil.

I would still opt to get my media tested. Its a good practice to do so even when you aren't experiencing any visible problems. You may discover a hidden hunger with a soil test, and may even end up increasing your yields based off the results.

If you believe water is the likely culprit, definitely get your water tested. Any University will have an extension service that you can use, but atm I use Fafards for all my testing needs. More expensive though. About $35 per sample I believe. Tests Macros, Micros, pH, E.C.

Ive had symptoms that are similar to yours before, and I helped my plants pull out of it with increased Micros, Ca, and reduced pH. These recommendations were the result of fertilizer and media testing, so I really can't urge you enough to get it done.

 

[Holmes Slice]

Hey Gnome, been following this thread as my plants look alot like yours. I am pretty sure my issues are related to soil buffering and some recycled soil that I forgot to properly amend but I need to do more work to isolate this.

Have you tried isolating a few clones in a different potting mix? I used to use Fox Farms years ago but found their quality was very inconsistent. Some mixes had poor nutrient loads, some had no wetting agents. One batch of FF I got was replete with fungus gnats such that when I used it to repot some clones, I had hundreds of gnats within a few days of watering. Caused me to swear off using the stuff for the past two years. Been using the LC organic mix and 3LBs soil recycling method to produce a QP every 60 days or so. Perpetual grow, all very consistent results. Last batch of flowers looks gorgeous--luscious green, sticky perfection. Next round of clones/transplants starts looking like crap. I am not 100% what my problem is just yet, but pretty sure it's my soil buffering or water balance.

For some reason, my mind was also drawn to the TMV thread. My plants occasionally threw a mosaic leaf or two in the past but it never amounted to anything. Now I have all these stunted, curly leaves where healthy sites should be. Then I start beating myself up over using the same shears to cut my peppers and clones and obsessing that I need to break down my grow and start over. So many variables in our scale of operation, I am hoping to isolate my issues in the meantime.

My hatred of FF and my interest in your success caused me to post here. I hope the best for you and your girls and will send positive vibes your way while you sort this out.