Shaking Nutes before use

[Sinisterzane]

Hi all,

I am wondering how critical it is to shake the containers containing nutrients before use?...I have 4 x 10 litre containers on my phone controlled system (grow A/B, bloom A/B) And have provision to add a booster container...I am currently testing using Canna's.

I could either have motors below the containers that shake when the doses are applied (expensive) or have a high powered air pump that turns on and pushes air into each container when the doses are applied using air stones. Trouble is I dont know what effect adding air to raw nutrients might have..it will disipate them and technicaly shake them but not sure if adding air will mess them up?

Thanks​

 

[praisehim.]

mix your nutes in a big res and get a bubbler. (airpump) itll keep everything mixed. and yes, shaking the bottle is pretty necessary. Its like making chocolate milk and not mixing.. no good

 

[WelderDan]

Yeah, gotta mix 'em up before use. I use PBP and you gotta shake it or the mix will be off. I even shook the GH 3 part stuff when I used it. Just seemed the right thing to do.

 

[Sinisterzane]

mix your nutes in a big res and get a bubbler. (airpump) itll keep everything mixed. and yes, shaking the bottle is pretty necessary. Its like making chocolate milk and not mixing.. no good

The system is designed so it doses on command so I cant physicaly mix anything....Are you saying if I put a big air stone in the main reservoir it will have the same effect although the nute containers wont be shaken before it pushes them in?...

It works like this

"grow A 1ml" (doses 1ml per litres 120ml for 120 litre res) replies with message when dose complete

"mix tank" (pump mixes tank for 3 minutes) replies with message when mix complete

"grow b 1ml" (doses 1ml per litres 120ml for 120 litre res) replies with message when dose complete

"cf" (texts back with CF value in E.C)

repeat the above using 1ml or .5ml commands (60 lites dose)

1ml moves the CF up by 0.4 EC .5ml moves the CF up by 0.2 EC this is using Canna nutes...then 1.5 hours after the filling/dosing process has started the PH auto adjuster kicks in dosing it with PH down pulling it down to between 5.7 and 5.9...this will auto kick in when needed..the 1.5 hour delay is due to making sure your EC is spot on i.e you have to flush it if you go to far so gives plenty of time..when this process is going on it disables all the other pumps on the system so everything your adjusting is staying in the main reservoir only rather than having a pump kick in half way through a dose pushing the half doses nutes in the wrong direction.

I need it to mix the nute containers in some way at each dose command so its mixing at the same time as dosing

 

[Sinisterzane]

an air operated fan would be very nice...attach to the end of a air line and the air spins it in the container

 

[Sinisterzane]

Actually a small pump would work I think...its not drawing in air so its recirculating the contents of the container?

 

[gregor_mendel]

If the container top that the nutes are in is big enough, just put the cheapest pump in that you can find, and have it run four times a day or so, using a cheap 15 minute increment timer.

The better solution would be test the resultant EC as is, and again after manually shaking.
My guess is that you will find shaking is unnecessary.

I am pretty sure I have seen agitators that are designed exactly for your application.

 

[Sinisterzane]

If the container top that the nutes are in is big enough, just put the cheapest pump in that you can find, and have it run four times a day or so, using a cheap 15 minute increment timer.

The better solution would be test the resultant EC as is, and again after manually shaking.
My guess is that you will find shaking is unnecessary.

I am pretty sure I have seen agitators that are designed exactly for your application.

Trouble is agitators are expensive..

What im after is a micro type pump that I can drop into each container...cut the plug off, pull the cable through a hole and leave the pump inside then wire each pump to trigger each time the relevant dosing pump activates..The hole in the top of the containers is 48mm round. Ive found these 44mm X 43mm x 42mm but due to the hole being round I cant see them fitting through (thats if those dimensions are right)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TUNZE-PUMP...item3368bee939

 

[StellarP]

ActiveAqua (Hydrofarm) AAPW40 submersible pump.


Cheers
StellarP

 

[Sinisterzane]

Im in the UK....looks the business though

 

[Sinisterzane]

Ok...ive kind of given up now can anyone think of a reason why I cant just get a large air pump and push air into the bottom of the nute containers using a wide solid tube so that the salts dont clog it up..this will be making it bubble but cant quite picture if the bubbles will displace it enough to make it mix.

If I go putting a pump inside the containers the salts could cause it to block up

 

[Sinisterzane]

Just got a reply from bluelab who make the dosetronic kit....they dont recommend to there clients to put a shaking machine on there kits...nor does the dosetronic kit mix the nutes inbetween dosing

 

[BettaBudda]

Ok...ive kind of given up now can anyone think of a reason why I cant just get a large air pump and push air into the bottom of the nute containers using a wide solid tube so that the salts dont clog it up..this will be making it bubble but cant quite picture if the bubbles will displace it enough to make it mix.

If I go putting a pump inside the containers the salts could cause it to block up

Someone with more knowledge may contradict me, but I think bubbling the nutes is a great idea and accomplishes the same thing as shaking them before mixing.

 

[Sinisterzane]

I just got a tube and blew into one of the 10 litre containers and can see it displacing it very well...im going to go and get one of these tomorrow

http://southernaquatics.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=629

Then im thinking of getting 2 x different coloured solutions pouring them into a 10 litre container (5 litres of each) and pumping the air into it and see what happens...im pretty sure when I add the 2 different coloured solutions (no idea what to use yet) they will mix in with each other straight away though..any ideas on this i.e how to prove its actually mixing with each other.

I plan on having 4 x individual air pumps and wire them with the dosers so when the dosers come on by command they will force air into the containers at the same time....the dosers run for between 1 min 15 seconds and 2 mins 30 seconds dependant on if you give it a .5ml or 1ml dose (raises EC with canna nutes by 0.2 and 0.4) then you redo the commands until you hit your required EC so basically they would of been well and truly mixed/shaken by the end of the process

I am not sure if it would be better for them to come on on timers though a few times a day..trouble is they might of re-settled by the time it comes to dosing. I cant think of a way of making the air pumps start just before the dosers start...well not easily as it would involve using more time delayed relays etc

 

[Haps]

If you are talking about nute solution already mixed in water, air will do it. If you are talking ablut thick nutes, not sure. Might take some tweaking. Sounds like nute choice could be the key.

 

[Sinisterzane]

If you are talking about nute solution already mixed in water, air will do it. If you are talking ablut thick nutes, not sure. Might take some tweaking. Sounds like nute choice could be the key.

The Canna and advanced sensi nutes are very thin like water im concerned about adding air i.e aerating the concentrated nutes

 

[Danks2005]

I would suggest using an aquarium powerhead (water pump), and have it come on for 5-10min, 20-30 min before dosing, if the the dosing is happening on a specific timeline. If the dosing is truly automatic, in that it monitors and adjusts throughout the day. If this is the case, I would suggest having the mixing pump come on at pre-programmed times, and opening the circuit that feeds the dosing pumps when the mixing pump is energized. Of course this would be built into the logic if using PLC, or hardwired with timers and relays.

I know when you are bubbling water, the bubbles attract organic material. This is the idea behing protein skimmers on saltwater aquariums. So, doing this with concentrated nutes may carry the risk of bubbling thing out of the water and into a nasty foam on top. Chem fert this may not happen too. But I'm not sure. I would use a water pump so I wouldn't have to worrry about it.