seedlings twisted and dying in coco

[stagafolaysa]

Growing in coco-perlite 50-50, 400w HPS (about 2' away currently), 26.5 celius, got fresh air blowing right on them.

I have two batches going on now. For the first batch I took coco straight out of the bag, and only added tap water, about 0.7 EC, pH 7.8. Dutchmen's Royal Orange, 10 of them - sprouted last wednesday pretty much. Currently only 8 left. After initial signs of problems, I flushed them well with RO water to runoff of 100, then recharged them with HESI Coco nutes, 0.6 EC/pH 5.8-6.0.

And the second batch, I again took coco right out of the bag, again with the tap water, but this time just a bit of it. Serious Seed's Chronic, sprouted on Saturday, they are looking more healthy though (with some minor problems), just a bit of stretching. When they dried I gave them another small watering with HESI coco 0.6 EC.

So the Royals are giving me trouble. Their cotyledons are good, but the first set of bladed leaves in most of them is quite twisted! Either fully twisted down or straight but facing aside in 90 deg from one another rather than 180. This began before flushing but seems to have gotten worse on some of them since them, and two died, one before and one after the flush.

Some of them look better - but have some strange residue or discoloration one the blade leaves, not sure what it is. Looks a bit like scale, as in calmag buildup:



also on the first batch I sprouted one of the chronics - It is the biggest seedling I have right now. It had a bit of a rough spot of what looked like a burn on the first set, but then it went away, after the first flush, and it moved from looking a bit light color after the flush, to looking a bit better after the stronger feeding:



and the other Chronics from the second batch are younger but seem to be in strong shape, although a bit stretching.



On my last grow, I also had problems with the seedlings, also in coco. I somehow figured it out with flushing and slowly recharging them, maybe I should just be slower about it, more gradual?

http://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/415445-help-coco-not-looking-good.html - this is the thread from the last grow.

I appreciate any help.

 

[homebrew420]

Your initial pH was off. Coco needs to be treated as if it where a hydro grow. Your pH should not be any higher than 6.2 imo. 5.8-6.0 is where you will likely have the best success. even if you are just giving them water it needs to be pH adjusted. key component to a successful coco grow. I have had to learn this with much haste. As well as a bunch of reading and research. Hope this helps.

Peace

 

[T_B_M]

What brand coco are you using? Some brands come HOT and you need to rinse them thoroughly, then charge with weak nutes after the flush.

Test your coco out of the bag. Make a slurry and measure pH.

 

[RomulusUSA]

seedlings twisted and dying in coco

Can you give more input on how to lower pH of the coco initially? Despite a fair amount of flushing, I can't get a spare pot of coco to lower much. Maybe I'm not flushing enough? I'm using B'Cuzz coco coir also.

 

[Iraganji]

I flush my coco in a 5 gallon bucket with lots of holes drilled into the bottom of it. I use a hand held spray attachment plumbed to the tap water source (*before it's been water softened*) I've had bricks of coco give me outrageously high EC readings, so I don't play around anymore. Usually I hydrate the coco and flush it a day ahead of time. While addressing other chores, as I'm passing by, I'll give the bucket a good spraying. I don't ever check the run off to see if it's okay to use yet, I just flush the shit out of it. My tap is city water with a low/fair EC, so I flush with it so it charges the coco with cal mag.

When I pot up plants in it, I drain to waste the shit out of them the first couple of feedings.

 

[Marko420]

PAY ATTENTION!!!

IRAGANJI says

I flush my coco in a 5 gallon bucket with lots of holes drilled into the bottom of it. I use a hand held spray attachment plumbed to the tap water source (*before it's been water softened*) I've had bricks of coco give me outrageously high EC readings, so I don't play around anymore. Usually I hydrate the coco and flush it a day ahead of time. While addressing other chores, as I'm passing by, I'll give the bucket a good spraying. I don't ever check the run off to see if it's okay to use yet, I just flush the shit out of it. My tap is city water with a low/fair EC, so I flush with it so it charges the coco with cal mag.

When I pot up plants in it, I drain to waste the shit out of them the first couple of feedings.

Props to yea bra, that's exactly the way it should be done.

 

[SeaMaiden]

These folks have given you a lot of valuable information. Flush the coir before precharging it, pay attention to pH, and being as it's coco, the seedlings will need light, regular feedings.

 

[stagafolaysa]

yep you guys totally hit the spot on the problem.... only thing is - it's a bit late for this and these were all my seedlings! I have to save these guys!

 

[Ichabod Crane]

If your using a fan to blow fresh air on the seedlings you need to stop that. It can cause excessive water usage by your plants and can cause a imbalance in your nute uptake. indirect air or oscillating is better.

 

[SeaMaiden]

yep you guys totally hit the spot on the problem.... only thing is - it's a bit late for this and these were all my seedlings! I have to save these guys!

Okay wait a minute, how is it anyone's fault but yours that you decided to forge ahead without doing any research?

 

[Iraganji]

staga....You can still flush them. I'd wait until they get good and thirsty and then drain to waste twice the volume of the pots with your nute mix at .6ec and 5.8ph.

I'm not sure what the other coco growers start seeds in, but for me, it's the only thing I don't use coco for. For germinating seeds, I use rockwool, root riots or rapid rooters.

Good luck to ya!

 

[RomulusUSA]

seedlings twisted and dying in coco

I really appreciate all you guys and gal's feedback.

So you would suggest flushing with 5.8pH vs something a good bit lower, 5.4ish? I was told by an experienced coco grower that due to my runoff #'s (0.4pH higher than input) I should flush with a lower pH, and tap vs low nutrient mix. I'm game to do whatever you think is best. Tomorrow will be when it happens due to their last feeding being last night and the coco is still damp under the surface layer.

Thanks!

 

[stagafolaysa]

thank you all. the problem is that flushing doesn't help, even with very acid water, the runoff pH seems to be solely dependent on the amount of nutrients in the coco.

some of the plants today (who haven't been flushed) gave first runoff of 1500 mS! (from the bag the coco will give 600-900 runoff). this way the runoff pH is 6.1-6.2. But if flushed just a little, even with nutrient solution 500/5.8 - just a bit of a flush and the runoff stats are 1000/6.4 or 750/6.5. How can I work with this?

pH down won't work at all, it may lower the pH of the solution but the coco is unaffected by this.

What I tried is flushing the bigger plants (still very small) with 1000 EC solution. This may risk over-fertilization but it may also be ok, and i'm hoping to get the coco to lower its pH that way. So far I've done this yesterday on two plants and one seems to be improving slightly, no burn signs.

 

[Granger2]

I would go ahead and flush with pH'd RO, then with light nutes. Then, use half strength nutes with a full strength dose of Earth Juice Microblast or some other full spectrum Trace Mineral product. You'll need Calcium and Magnesium also. I'm talking about doing these one right after another.

And you really need to inoculate the medium with beneficial microbes. Get a good one with mycorryzals and trichoderma along with Bacilis subtilis, etc. Plant Success soluble is a good one, and there are many other good ones. Particularly important for seedlings. One of you pics is text book Damping Off. Collapsed stem with toppled plant. Unmistakable. This will be prevented with the right inoculants. Good luck. -granger

 

[RomulusUSA]

OK I have an update to my similar issue, I wanted to let you know about it. I am not sure yet as to how the plants will turn out, but I finally got runoff down to 5.8pH/~0.4EC tonight! It took about 3 quarts per pot, which is about double the coco/perlite volume of each pot (1/2 gallon pots, ~3/4" of rock/perlite in the bottom, not -entirely- full of coco), at 5.45pH/0.5EC (1/2 strength GH nutrients, 3/4 strength CalMag). We'll see how this works out.

 

[stagafolaysa]

I would go ahead and flush with pH'd RO, then with light nutes. Then, use half strength nutes with a full strength dose of Earth Juice Microblast or some other full spectrum Trace Mineral product. You'll need Calcium and Magnesium also. I'm talking about doing these one right after another.

And you really need to inoculate the medium with beneficial microbes. Get a good one with mycorryzals and trichoderma along with Bacilis subtilis, etc. Plant Success soluble is a good one, and there are many other good ones. Particularly important for seedlings. One of you pics is text book Damping Off. Collapsed stem with toppled plant. Unmistakable. This will be prevented with the right inoculants. Good luck. -granger

thanks a lot granger - that's very informative. I don't have Earth Juice, I do have the Diamond Nectar. (I don't have accessed to many brands of nutrients and additives). Should I use this? My coco nutrients should contain all micro elements and calmag as well of course, also have used epsom salt on some of the plants.

I think the only way I can get beneficial microbes is making aerated compost tea. Would you recommend to use that in coco? Mind that I use mineral nutrients and not organic which i have gathered is countering microbes in the medium in general.

The seedlings falling over were the result of a bad transplant. Had two of them in the same cup by mistake, and then I tried pulling one out, both died after a while like that. Guess it was too soon.

 

[stagafolaysa]

OK I have an update to my similar issue, I wanted to let you know about it. I am not sure yet as to how the plants will turn out, but I finally got runoff down to 5.8pH/~0.4EC tonight! It took about 3 quarts per pot, which is about double the coco/perlite volume of each pot (1/2 gallon pots, ~3/4" of rock/perlite in the bottom, not -entirely- full of coco), at 5.45pH/0.5EC (1/2 strength GH nutrients, 3/4 strength CalMag). We'll see how this works out.

Thanks for the update man, I have some good news as well - almost all my plants are showing good signs of recovery - I'm not sure what to account this for, as they were given different treatment. Possible explanations are simply the roots growing after some time which allows the plant more resilience to the medium problems; advice given above about not blowing fresh air on the plants (I took it - despite very serious doubts); and the general lines of treatment I've given - more EC/lower pH.

Anyway they are looking quite a bit better and growing faster now, I thank you all with appreciation for your help. Except one asshole from above with the stupid question about 'fault'.

 

[RomulusUSA]

Good news! Mine aren't looking so great after their 2nd flush yesterday with Stress_Test's suggestions (See my thread in this subforum), but I fed them to a small amount of runoff tonight and we'll see how they look. I setup an oscillating fan as well, finally, which is keeping my room much better circulated lol.

 

[stagafolaysa]

alright man. I didn't really understand how our issues are related, except for the pH problems... but maybe they are.

Despite improvement I'm still seeing some twisting, it's quite bothering. Any more ideas?

 

[SeaMaiden]

Thanks for the update man, I have some good news as well - almost all my plants are showing good signs of recovery - I'm not sure what to account this for, as they were given different treatment. Possible explanations are simply the roots growing after some time which allows the plant more resilience to the medium problems; advice given above about not blowing fresh air on the plants (I took it - despite very serious doubts); and the general lines of treatment I've given - more EC/lower pH.

Anyway they are looking quite a bit better and growing faster now, I thank you all with appreciation for your help. Except one asshole from above with the stupid question about 'fault'.

So I'm an asshole for pointing out the obvious?

I disagree, I happen to think that you are an asshole for thinking that we are responsible for helping you fix your fuck up.

Good luck getting help with your next fuck up, because it is sure to happen.