Starting to plan a LED microgrow - advice appreciated.

[ctk2011]

I've been lurking here for a few weeks, gobbling up as much information as possible; I've gotten so many good ideas here.

I'm about to start my first grow for personal use, I'm a MMJ patient in CA and with the recent Fed intrusions, I want to grow for myself.

I only vaporize and use a really small amount: 1/4 a month.

I have designed a small cabinet in Sketchup (link) and was thinking of putting a 126 wattt Penetrator LED panel in it (are Penetrator LEDs better than Blackstar?)

Cabinet dimensions are: 3' wide, 2' deep, 3.5' tall.

I was planning to scrog 1 plant - and eventually build a separate mother/clone/veg box after I get a few grows under my belt.

Even thought I am legal, odor control is the highest priority (my wife has a seriously good nose.)

With that in mind, I was thinking that a 150 CFM Phresh filter might be my best option, and pairing it up with a 100 cfm inline duct fan. Temperature in the winter in the room this will be in ranges from 65-75 - in the summer, it hangs around 75-80 for ambient temperature.

I'm hoping with a 100 cfm fan, I will be able to keep enough negative pressure while pulling through the phresh filter.

I'm at 21 sqf with the box how it is, but since I have never scrogged or grown before, I'm wondering if a 4' ceiling is better?

Does it sounds like I am on the right track?

I'm trying to research as hard as I can - I want to make sure I build the box right the first time.

Thanks for reading!

 

[GP73LPC]

negative pressure is key for odor control...

i would say the penetrator is better than the blackstar.

check the links in my sig: LED Retailers and Very Stealth Fishtank Cabinet.

i used activated carbon and ozone for my cabinet grow... with LED's cooling will be much easier. i kept neg pressure in my cab with 2 150 HPS lights with only a computer fan or two...

good luck, planning before starting is the right idea...

 

[rives]

Well, to start with, you are calculating the cubic footage, not the square footage of your cabinet. I run a Lumigrow ES330 in a GL80 tent, which is roughly 31"x 31"x 71", and usually run a scrog. While it is a bit more headroom than absolutely necessary, the more that you have the easier your life will be later.

I am using roughly the same fan/filter spec that you are thinking about, with a similar ambient, and it works well. My temperatures don't get up quite that high normally (usually around 78 max), and my tent high temperatures are 84-85.

As far as your fixture choice goes, I would suggest that you do more research. HGL has had far too many issues in too many areas for me to recommend them. If my memory is correct, Blackstar overstates the wattage that their fixtures draw - there is a very good thread on here by GP73LPC (see link) that compares purchase price, warranty, and actual power. If you are interested in staying close to that power range, you should look at the Lumigrow ES165 being sold at Greners.com. The price isn't that much higher, and in my opinion, the Lumigrow is a superior unit.

Good luck!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=222390

 

[Voidling]

If you know how to solder and a little bit of electronics there are several threads on diy Led lights. That way you know you have the best parts and come out cheaper still.

 

[rives]

If you know how to solder and a little bit of electronics there are several threads on diy Led lights. That way you know you have the best parts and come out cheaper still.

In my experience, it isn't significantly cheaper but I have high hopes that it is going to be better! I am just finishing up my DIY luminaire, and I think you will be startled if you put together a complete parts list, with shipping, and total it up. There are numerous benefits such as the quality of the components and the form factor of the luminaire, but I have very close to the cost of an ES165 just in the enclosure materials, fans, and shipping costs. When you add in the cost of the LED's, the mcpcb's, drivers, heat sinks, anodizing, etc, the cost will leave you scratching your head. There is a good reason that most manufacturer's are using crap components and offshore labor.

 

[FreezerBoy]

100 cfm inline duct fan.

Those are known as booster fans because they provide a boost to your REAL fan. Without a REAL fan to boost, they're near useless. Beware the word "inline". ANY fan can be made "inline". The type of fan here is axial, the least effective fan for dealing with pressure.

You do NOT want to fill your height with plants. Effective penetration is measured in inches not feet. Keep all veg growth below the screen allowing nothing above except colas. This will keep canopy at say 12"-24". Because ScrOG uses horizontal growth, I've had plants that were 5-6 feet "long" but only 6-8 inches "tall"

Fill the remaining height with a res, reflector, fans, filters, service boxes etc

 

[rives]

Those are known as booster fans because they provide a boost to your REAL fan. Without a REAL fan to boost, they're near useless. Beware the word "inline".

Hmmm.... I think that we have a problem with terms. I agree completely about the booster fans, but the terminology that I am familiar with for an inline fan is any fan that goes into a ducting run or between components. See the following link for this stores labeling.

http://www.greners.com/i/fans-ventilation-filters/products/inline-fans-blowers.html

F.B., what are you calling these types of fans?

 

[guest456mpy]

He called them axial, which is correct.
Canfan and S&P are Vane-axial, which can develop the needed static pressure needed for our use.

The term "in-line" does not describe the actual type of fan, thus this description should be ignored. It tells nothing at all about the actual type of fan, nor it's capabilities.

 

[rives]

The term "in-line" does not describe the actual type of fan, thus this description should be ignored. It tells nothing at all about the actual type of fan, nor it's capabilities.

Agreed - it is descriptive of the application, not the fan design.

 

[Weezard]

You are getting some good advice here on lighting.
Got nothing to add.
However, once you get them ducks lined up, you'll find that led growing is quite different from HPS, or even CFLs.
Here is an excellent thread by Hempyguy that will fill in some blanks;

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184932

If you run into a snag, no be shy, we love to help.

Thanks for writing.
Aloha,
Weezard

 

[FreezerBoy]

HF.B., what are you calling these types of fans?

I believe the "proper" term is centrifugal, as opposed to axial, mixed vent etc. Inline is like car. We know it's a vehicle for private transportation but we don't know if it's: gas, diesel, biofuel, Wankel, piston, electric, hybrid...

We want to make sure newcomers are not confused thinking that because their fan is "inline" that it sucks like a Vortex. It may be with LED, an axial is all he needs. but, again, the axial is the least capable style of fan when dealing with pressure such as carbon filters

CTK check out Ventilation 101. Some of it may hurt your brain (does mine) but even a cursory examination will give you a foundation to build on

 

[guest456mpy]

Freezerboy:
Axial are like window or computer cooling fans.
Squirrel cage are the centrifugal types (the key is that the output is on the circumference of the fan, known as the volute).
Vane axial fans are the type that can fan, vortex and S&P makes.

Squirrel cage and vane axial are good for our use, axial not so much.

 

[ctk2011]

Thanks for all the replies!

I'm still researching - and every little bit helps. The main reason I am interested in LED is when I started looking at setting up a 250 Watt HPS/MH setup with a digital ballast, it would getting close to $300; if LED is the real deal, it seems like it would be worth the price hike.

Quality is a big concern of mine though - I suffer from some pretty severe spinal issues, and if I can't grow potent MMJ, then I'll just end up having to visit the dispensaries again.

I know LED is still new'ish, but is it going to give me what I am looking for?

My other option is to go the 250 watt HPS / cooltube route.

Freezerboy: thanks for clearing up the inline booster thing. Would an inline booster fan be enough to cool a cooltube in a closed system though? Or am I going to need to also put a true in-line fan on that section if I decide to go that route?

If I do go HPS, I know I'll want to vent the light and the case separately.

Thanks again.

edit: Weezard: thanks for the link, I'm reading that thread right now.

 

[Voidling]

Glad to be reading your pidgin again Weezard.

If you want to know what led's can do in the right hands, go look into grow journals. I know Weezard has some beautiful pics from his grows with his home made lights. I've seen some other good ones claiming 1g/w.

I think scrog would be the way to go with led panels

 

[FreezerBoy]

Would an inline booster fan be enough to cool a cooltube in a closed system though?

I should think so (though there may be quieter options such as computer fans) Given you want it separate, with the possible exception of light proofing, a cool tube offers little to no resistance to airflow.

Sleepy, Hazy, and VerdantGreen I believe have done LED grows/diaries.

 

[ctk2011]

Thanks again - I've checked out those grow journals, and I think LED will definitely take care of my needs. I vaporize about 1/4 a month - so if I SCROG 2 plants, I should easily be able to produce that and have enough left over to cook with (something I really want to be able to do.)

I am thinking of maybe dialing back the dimensions a little bit, perhaps 3' wide, 2' deep, 4 ' tall.

In that space, the front runners look to be perhaps the Lumigrow 165, or the Spectra 180; any thoughts on those?

I am not opposed to DIY - a few years ago I got on a guitar pedal building kick and as a result my soldering skills are decent - but I get worried when it comes to risking fucking something up that has such a high cost in parts.

I'm still not opposed to HID - I just think LED might be better for my situation: stealth (even though I am CA MMJ legal), and the ability to still run in the summer (100+ here in summer.)

One more question: is running this with soil going to be a problem, I keep seeing people say w/ LED it ups the risk of PM or other issues because the soil isn't being dried as much.

 

[rives]

Give some thought to your air flow. One of the reasons that I like having a little more headroom even though I usually run a scrog is because I bring my inlet air in under an elevated platform that the plants are sitting on. This allows me to do a couple of turns in some dryer duct to eliminate any light getting in, and keeps me from having to concentrate the plants in the middle of the tent to avoid air inlet plumbing.

As I mentioned before, I lean toward the Lumigrow, but have been very interested in the Spectra's. I've been following Irishboy's grows for a long time and it is hard to argue with his results.

I run soil, and haven't had any issues. You might also want to check on blumats (see link) - they make things pretty painless and the plants seem to love them.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111046

 

[Voidling]

I'm not a soil person but I'd think there's no problem if you start from scratch and figure out your own water schedule. Personally I like coco but haven't ran leds to give that advice.

I live in the south where we broke several heat records including amount of days over 105 in a row. So I understand the heat problem.

You might want to consider growing extra this winter and stashing it in jars after curing just in case next summer is just as brutal.

 

[alkalien]

I noticed a funny thing during my experiments, I run a 80x80cm² flower cabinet, a 40x60cm² mother / clone cabinet and a PC tower case just for testing stuff.

So this run a friend of mine just put two clones I had left over in the PC case with a 60W DIY LED panel and they really love it! The light is so close to the plants, I really was waiting for them to get burned but nothing happened. The clones were pretty fucked up, sative leaning strain. They did not stretch at all, thy just found that the light was enough at their height and started building nice buds. In my flower cabinet if the lights are too close I loose leafs but not in the small cabinet. Seems to me the plants just decided to survive

The point I'm aiming at is, the smaller the grow, the better you are off with LEDs! Sure, it is nonsense to put 60W in a PC Case but it does work and so will your little grow. You should be able to meet your needs without any problems at all. Just don't plan to give away some of your harvest to friends, it's not gonna be enough for a group of people.


Odor control is strain dependend. There are those that smell like hell and those that do not. If you have a medium smelling strain, you can build your filter just as I did. Buy three PC fans, two of good quality, one cheap. cut away the blades and engine part of the cheap one, wrap it with wire and fill it with activated carbon. Now put one fan on each side, pushing in the same direction of course and you got a cheap, refillable, lightproof filter. Using LEDs this will be enough to transport the heat and keep the pressure in the cabinet below ambient pressure. Just make sure the cabinet is allmost air tight.

Soil works great! I even use one container for two plants and still they are happy! If you plan on using blumats, which I really recommend!, use the "tropf" ones. The others can't be used with fertilizers. It will take you a few days until the system is dialed in, expect your room to be flooded a few times until you know how to use them! When you figured out, you'll be able to go on vacation without thinking about whether your plants will be watered or not.

 

[ctk2011]

Blumats seems like a really good idea! Is it possible to actually have a blumat system in a small box though? How big would a res be for 2 plants?