Bonsai Mums Problems

[NOF]

Hi guys,

I am having some troubles with my bonsai mums.
Nowadays I have six little mums, with 8 months older.

The Arjans Ultra Haze and the 1024 are showing some
nute deficiances. I checked MynameStich thread, and
I diagnosticated as potassium defiance.


I know that I all have to do is to bring some sources of potassium
to my soil. But before doing that, I want to solve my pH problem. (I guess this the real reason of all these problems).

And this is my major question!

How do I lower my soil pH?
For example, my pH soil is about 7.2.

What should I do?

I was wondering to solve this problem, by flushing my soil
with liters and liters with a 5.5 pH water. Is this correct?


Or should I take another strategy to lower my hole pH soil?
Please check these links below: (I'm having troubles to upload the pictures to this topic!)

https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/Photo110.jpg

https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/Photo37.jpg

https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/Photo41.jpg

https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/Photo51.jpg


All the best,


NOF

 

[Player2]

If they are in small pots, why mess about with trying to correct by drenching?

Probably easier to just repot with new good soil then to try and fix what you have. It will also give you a chance to inspect the roots.

!Buena suerte!

EDIT
I just looked at your pics...
So, when you repot, put in a lot of drainage amendments and make sure it isn't too nute hot. Soak and check the drain water pH with a real meter. Looks to me like those plants are getting too much bad love, not too little.

 

[qupee]

If they are in small pots, why mess about with trying to correct by drenching?

Probably easier to just repot with new good soil then to try and fix what you have. It will also give you a chance to inspect the roots.

!Buena suerte!

EDIT
I just looked at your pics...
So, when you repot, put in a lot of drainage amendments and make sure it isn't too nute hot. Soak and check the drain water pH with a real meter. Looks to me like those plants are getting too much bad love, not too little.

I agree. Repot may be in order with plants many months old and in smallish pots.

Trim the rootballs. Use a bread knife (serrated) or similar and cut some off all the way around. Then repot into new dirt.

 

[NOF]

Hi there Player2 and qupee,

Thanks for comming,

I know that repoting should be the best to be done.
The point is that I repot some of my new mums last week.

So If I am going to do the repot, I should wait for 1-2 weeks.

In this case, I want to learn how to deal with pH problems!
That´s why I am researching some growers opinions!


Player 2, do you check your soil pH by justing soaking and measuring the drain water?

I know that there are some steps if you want to do the "laboratory measurement"!

My meter is the milwaukee and I just love it!

 

[Duplicate]

I agree with qupee.
Your plants might be root bound. In addition to re-potting they could probably also use a root pruning. I've used the method in this thread and it worked out well for me.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31919&highlight=bonsai

 

[Player2]

The "soak" is with ro water and it is just that, the pot inside another, totally swimming and leave it for a while. The other way like the labs do it is to take a bit of soil and mix with ro water, most gardening sites say 1:1 but I have never been particularly careful about measuring that, shake the shit out of it and test the mud/slurry.

If you just test run-off pour through you will probably get a crazy reading.

 

[MynameStitch]

What soil mixture are you using and your nutrients you are using.... how often and how much?
To lower your pH you can use some things..... peat moss for example... add some to the top of the soil...... use some pH down with your water...... different things... vinegar only works for so long and it evaporates and the pH rises... so I would not reccomend using it unless no other alternatives.......

How often are you watering your plants too? How big is the pot your in and how tall is the plant and how long has it been in there?

 

[NOF]

Hi guys, hy there also Stitch (thanks for comming by!)...


I will try to answer all of your questions, and comment the little test that
I did last night.


My mums are in 1 liter pots. They were on a bigger one in the past, but after the last transplant, I did the root pruning and then repot them all on these 1 liter pot. I am wondering to by some 13 cm square pots wich I can fill with 2 liters of substrate.

I believe that 2 liters is going to be ok for mums, My only purpose with them, is to have some clones every month to play at outdoors. These mums, give me something like 3-5 clones per plant every month, and they are really small. (15-20 cm high!)

I did my last soil mix with

1 part of organic compost (cattle manure composted)
1 part of worm castings
1/4 part of cured chicken manure
And added calcium oxide for pH balance

And then I mixed this soil mix with 50/50 ratio of perlite.

I did not checked the pH when I did it and I didn´t checked it
after 2 weeks as I was specting to do.

So I really don´t know how much is the pH.
Maybe I'll check it in the next week and I sure will place here how it is.


Let me tell you guys my little test that I did yesterday.
I did the soak test with 2 kind of waters. With deschlorine tap water and with destiled water. check ut the results:

First test (soaking with deschlorine tap water)

Tap water:
pH 7.3
EC 0.08
PPM 50

after soaking:

pH 7.3
EC 0.55
PPM 370


Destiled water:

pH 6.3
EC 0.0
PPM 0

after soaking:

pH 5.6
EC 0.86
PPM 580

So what are your opinions?
Is my soil to acid?

Should I do the 1:1 soil/destiled water check?


Thank you so much growers,


JAH BLESS!

 

[NOF]

---------4:20---------

 

[Player2]

I did my last soil mix with

1 part of organic compost (cattle manure composted)
1 part of worm castings
1/4 part of cured chicken manure
And added calcium oxide for pH balance

And then I mixed this soil mix with 50/50 ratio of perlite.

Have you used this mix successfully before?

I stand by my first guess that the mix is too hot, regardless of pH. You trimmed the roots then stuck them in a hot mix. It is testament to how tough these plants are that they didn't die.

I have never used calcium oxide, but the use of strong base with no measurement seems like a bad idea. It seems that your proper pH window would be very easy to miss either high or low with that stuff. Dolomite lime is a calcium and magnesium favorite around here for a reason.

I don't know where the tap water soak idea came from.

Anyway, if it was a good soak with distilled, that would tend to show that the soil is a bit acidic, which would be expected with a mix almost entirely composed of rich things that most gardeners would consider amendments. You should know that your runoff is strong enough to feed plants. Way too hot, I say again.

If you have distilled water and a little jar, I would still take a little 1 to 1 and shake the hell out of it and test it. Don't rush. Let it hang out for a bit and shake some more. Let us know how it compares.

I have been wrong before, but the quick fix for your stressed ladies would be a repot with a light mix. Moms don't need lots of feeding and now that they have been stressed they will need a bit of recovery.

Take it easy on them for a bit.

EDIT
I'm not sure how well "hot" translates. Sorry. It means that the mix is so loaded with nutrients that it is toxic to the plant. More is not always better.

 

[NOF]

Hi there Player2,

You are totally right in some of your arguments.
Let me try to explain better what I am acctually doing as grower and what I am trying to go as a grower. Personally I don´t like to buy these expensive soil mix out there, so what I try to do is do create my own soil.
I did many soil mixes in these 7 years of growing and I did not get up to my magic mix.
Maybe I am doing some mistakes...maybe when I was mixing a soil , some problems was going on and I was not able to put the ingredients that I really want to.
About these soil mix, I was thinking about it, about wich was the hole ingredients that mix on and let me tell you what I really did. I mixed something like 80-90 liters of potting soil, which was mostly:
1 part of comercial soil mix (medium strenght)
1 part os worm castings
This is was the major mix. Then I add something like 5-10 liters of cured chicken manure, some ashes ( 1 liter approximatelly). And then I started to think and I realize that it may be too acid.
So I decided to go a garden shop looking for dolomite lime. None shop had it and the only thing that I could found was the normal lime. Here in my country we have the dolomite lime and the “virgin lime”. The first on has mg on it and the second none.
The name of this lime, was Macro Calcio (Macro calcium).
And it is for agriculure purposes also, So this is not the pure calcium oxide, as you thought.
And then I add it, in ratios as used with dolomite lime.

You said that my soil mix is too hot. I have 8 clones in this same soil mix and all them look so
Healthy. Some of these clones are going to be my next mums. Others will go flower outdoor.
I am only having problems with 4 mums. The older ones. All of them are ready to be prunned, and it will be done this week.

Bro I have so much things to talk, and I don´t want to create such a hard reading post.
Finally, the soaking test. I wanted to see the diferences using tap water and destilled one.


Let´s talking and sharing some knowledge.

All the best bro,

NOF

 

[NOF]

By the way,

I just finished uploading some pictures.
If anyone want to check my Bonsai Mums album:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=33152


NOF.

 

[Player2]

Como esta su lugar? Temperatura? (How is your room? What is the temp?)

Todas las plantas tienen la misma mescla? y mismo tiempo? (All the plants jhave the same mix and time in the mix?)

Porque estuves pensando pH 7.2? (Why were you thinking the pH was 7.2?)

Ceniza es una otra cosa... es basico y a veses puede robar los micros, como una esponga. (Warning about using ash in the mix)

Una mezcla que funciona super bien para mi... (Just saying I like the mix from the second post, mostly)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=36542 como la segunda
60% tierra para mecetas
30% perlita
10% worm castings(no se como se dice eso)
mas o menos cada 4 litros, 2 cucharras dolomite lime

microriza y kelp? hace que su quire. Madres no necisitan mucho. (These are extras, add if you want)

Entonces, todos aqui estan pensando que necisita cambia la tierra y los otros dicen corta las rieces un poco.(That everyone thinks the soil needs changing and the rest of you also think he should trim the roots a little)

Lo siento. No tene una buena education de espanol.(Sorry my spanish sucks)

Suerte!(Good luck)

 

[NOF]

heheh

What were you trying to do mate?
I didn´t understand a thing...lol!

Anyway, you could keep with the english spoke!
Where did I say a thing about 7.2? Never did that...

Anyway I figured out what I am going to do with my sick mums.

I will do the "China Prune", take off all sick leaves and do a flush.

After I did the soaking test, (some flushing happened in this test),
the new leaves are starting to comming up healthly!

So I decided to do the flush with a 6.0 pH tap water and then do the
soaking with destilled water at 6.0 pH also.

I wish I can get some good results.


By the way, that organic collective thread is awesome!
Thank you p2,


NOF.

 

[Player2]

For example, my pH soil is about 7.2.

I don't know where I could have come up with that 7.2 number... oh, right there. heh.

Glad they are coming around. Seems you fixed the mix by rinsing some of that chicken crap fire out. Take it easy on super hot stuff like chicken manure. I think this still counts as an icmag win.

...last time I try to sprechen ze spanglish!

 

[dank.frank]

Kelp meal, cut the manure with peat moss 1:1, find dolomite lime...it's needed for the Ca, Mg. EWC are good at 10-15% of the total medium. Add a food for the micros like dry molasses and a more balanced nitrogen source like blood meal, guano, alfalfa meal, crab/shrimp shell meal or even nettle or comfrey leaf...

I use 1/2 gallon pots for moms and at times trim roots and repot every 2 months, but this gives me 10+ healthy clones every time around. I usually just plant in my normal full strength organic mix. Most plants are fine with root trimmings right after a heavy round of cuts are taken...perfect timing in fact, as the smaller root mass has less to feed and support at this time...and the fresh soil is perfect for new plant growth to start...the two processes just go hand in hand, last trim of the foliage, trim roots, repot. Frequently too, as being root bound is technically a stressor and you wanna keep your moms as happy as possible...


dank.Frank

 

[NOF]

Hi there Dank Frank,

Thankx for comming mate!

I did a research about what is kelp meal , and I never found it in my country.
And it is so usual in USA and Europe (I guess!).

Anyway how this meal kelp is sold? The seaweed is dried? Composted?

When you meant to change manure for peat moss which kind o manure are you
talking about? I use cured chicken manure and cattle manure composted (organic compost).

Can you tell me how is your soil recipe?

by te way: do you have any pictures of your mums?
I'm not that worred about repoting every 2 months. Maybe every 3-4 months heheh

But I will think about your advice!


Mum bonsai mums are on 1 liter pot and I was wondering to buy some 2 liters square pot for them. I usually take 4 clones in average per month!

all the best bro,



NOF.