bit confused about watering with coco

[gonzo`]

Canna says wait till pots are 50% of their saturated weight before watering again...

People on here say treat coco like hydro and have multiple waterings per day...

Which is the correct way of doing this? I have drippers so i can do it multiple times a day if I wanted to but is it really necessary?

I'd be interested to see people's pics of their plants using both methods!

 

[jackiee]

hi gonzo,i just hand water once a day,then a few hours later i remove the run off with a syringe, my pots are on garland trays with a strong galvanised wire on top to keep there feet dry. sorry no pics but i get good quality and quantity thanx stay lucky

 

[loyalty7]

water one time a day, do not let it dry, ppm's go up and ph off balances...

 

[SeaMaiden]

How often I water depends on how much I'm giving. Sometimes I will simply flood my tables a little and leave it be for several hours, then let drain off (if there's anything TO drain off). Other times I handwater and since I really want to see that 20% (give or take, mostly give) run-off that helps me avoid build-up of nutrients.

In either scenario, how often depends as much on the stage of growth as anything else. When I grow indoors I like to grow SOG style, so everyone's in 1gal pots all the way through flowering. That means that as they hit that 5-7 week mark, they are much more prone to drying out and require either more frequent feedings/waterings, or longer soaks (so much changed once I spent the money on GOOD TRAYS). Just remember that as roots take up more and more of the pot's volume, the plant in question is going to require water/feed more frequently.

I've never once had an issue with coco allowing me to "overwater." But then, I'm not one of those growers who hovers over the plants. They get their needs met, then I get mine met.

 

[stonedar]

pot size matters. people who drip multiple times a day probably are using small containers. this is the most accepted practice for sea-of-green style growing in coco.
if you are using larger containers it's reasonable to drip less often.
remember coco is still a relatively new medium to people and it lends itself to several different grow styles.
you can treat it just like dirt and have success, larger containers less watering
you can treat it like hydro, small containers frequent watering
it wicks well when mixed with perlite, so it makes for great passive hydro
you can amend it and grow organically
its versatile stuff

 

[eloquentsoution]

i use #15 smart pots. i feed/water daily. then suck out the run off with a shop vac.

 

[simple green]

pot size matters. people who drip multiple times a day probably are using small containers.

That's it right there....Keep it wet. If you're using small containers for the size plant you have, you may need to water multiple times a day, but if you're using a decent sized container for the size plant your growing, once a day is fine...

Keep it wet.

I'm usually able to hand water once a day (pump hooked to watering wand...), maybe a second time per day towards the end of the grow. I have a system going to allow runoff to go on down the drain and away without worry....

 

[hashcat88]

i have found that it is best to allow a wet/dry cycle until the roots are fully established in the pot. once the roots are fully established, you can then water daily or multiple times daily and achieve maximum results.

 

[DnKNg5]

This post is my gospel when it comes coco. CC is proven to be one of the best growers out there and he lays out his process in plan English. The link is set to filter only his comments in that thread. Read it front to back and I guarantee all your coco questions will be answered.

 

[stagafolaysa]

the problem with keeping it wet is the fungus gnats. How do you counter those? From what i've seen, yellow sticks are not enough (maybe I didn't put enough sticks). Will a drench with neem and perythrium (or whatever it's called, it's what they usually mix with the neem) be ok to do in coco? and will it eliminate the problem? anybody know a better/safer way?

 

[ninjagaiden]

the problem with keeping it wet is the fungus gnats. How do you counter those? From what i've seen, yellow sticks are not enough (maybe I didn't put enough sticks). Will a drench with neem and perythrium (or whatever it's called, it's what they usually mix with the neem) be ok to do in coco? and will it eliminate the problem? anybody know a better/safer way?

try switching out to smart pots, fill the top .5-1inch with sand

 

[Lost]

the problem with keeping it wet is the fungus gnats. How do you counter those? From what i've seen, yellow sticks are not enough (maybe I didn't put enough sticks). Will a drench with neem and perythrium (or whatever it's called, it's what they usually mix with the neem) be ok to do in coco? and will it eliminate the problem? anybody know a better/safer way?

Try adding a layer of perlite to the top of the container. Seems to get rid of fungus gnats every time for me.

 

[stagafolaysa]

yeah, last time i put the perlite on top after they were already there. didn't help much, they would just go through the drain holes. The sticky traps helped a bit, maybe I should use those more extensively this time. Also got smart pots for the next round.

 

[Green lung]

i have found that it is best to allow a wet/dry cycle until the roots are fully established in the pot. once the roots are fully established, you can then water daily or multiple times daily and achieve maximum results.

 

[SeaMaiden]

the problem with keeping it wet is the fungus gnats. How do you counter those? From what i've seen, yellow sticks are not enough (maybe I didn't put enough sticks). Will a drench with neem and perythrium (or whatever it's called, it's what they usually mix with the neem) be ok to do in coco? and will it eliminate the problem? anybody know a better/safer way?

Back when I thought the root aphid flyers were just mad-crazy fungus gnats, I was using Mosquito Dunks. I put them in my main water reservoir (a trash can) and left them there, as they don't work immediately, it takes a couple of days. But then you just start using that water to mix up nutes and away you go. IF they're fungus gnats, it will control them. If it doesn't, them ain't fungus gnats.

 

[Cannablitz]

Ive been growing in coco for a few years now and love the stuff. When I first transplant into containers I only water once a day with about 400 ppm of Botanicare and ph of 5.8. After the plants start to grow more I up the watering to twice a day and by the time the end of veg comes around I am watering every 8 hours at 750 ppm and ph of 5.8. Atm I am growing Iced Grapefruit under 600 watt hps and 6 Sunblaze florecents with co2 injection. Happy smokin!

 

[sick stuff]

the problem with keeping it wet is the fungus gnats. How do you counter those?

never had 'em, but from what i've been told (if you are in a small pot) bottom water the plant, and have a fan blowing directly on the top layer of soil and base of plant.

let the 1st inch of soil dry.. no more gnats...

 

[guest3854]

Firstly, pot size will depend on number of waterings, however yer environment also will play a significant role, gotta figure for humidity and rh...

Fuck tha hand watering, by automating, yer plants will grow larger by consistant scheduling and metering...


Be well,
Steele

 

[smoke1sun]

Pretty much what has been said in this thread is standard.

"Dont let it dry out"
"once a day"

But then I seen these roots

Alright this is the roots of one of the males I trashed at day 8 flowering. These were not very big when I started flowering 12-16 inches I think.

This was square I cut into it those to show thickness.

These pics belong to 40ampstofreedom

Thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223890&page=7

And I never have roots like this in my coco, So my next run Im gonna try 40's method.

What kinda goes against the standard we all use now.

Below he explains his processes.

Lots of people asking might just start a thread about it or put it in my GHS thread but here is a quick reply I just gave:

Quote:
In coco it doesn't matter how many times you feed as long as the solution is the same amount of nutes in it it will only keep constant. Not to mention it can never be over watered....It is the same exact thing as hydro where the roots always stay in the water and never drown the plant like dirt does. Over watering in dirt happens because it is so thick all the oxygen is starved from the roots. In coco watering more often brings in more o2 you can actually watch the bubbles come up like opening a very carbonated drink. This is called oxygenation. It keeps your coco healthy too. I see some people with algae and I only found this to happen in my person experiences when you let the coco sit with stagnate water in it. MJ loves oxygen so water often in coco. In flowering I tend to chill a bit and water 1-2 times a day depending on what the plant is asking for. I am sure 3-4 times a day is fine. I did 3x for a run a 2x for another and had no noticeable difference in root mass, but I cannot comment on whether yield was affected or not. When vegging I recommend 2-3x a day. If this set up a drip like that waters for you. They are incredibly simple to build...this is coming from someone with virtually no carpentry skills just takes a quick read. Check pontiacs DIY guide for some good irrigation info.

Roots are sick in coco and better roots = better yield and better product all around. You simply cannot get that from soil. I think coco beats hydro hands down on ease of use and cost effectiveness. Hydro systems are replaced with a cheap ass pot and the plants grow just as prolific. You also never have to worry about major equipment malfunctions. Less medium = way less storage space for what is normally hundreds of gallons of soils. I cut my medium storage space to almost a 1/4 of what it was. Not to mention coco is hundred times lighter than soil when dry so discarding medium has been made incredibly easier....Less medium and WAY less weight.

It is a little more watering if your doing it by hand than soil but the gains are just incredible and undeniable.

CoCo you treat opposite of soil...More watering = better roots and healthier plants just don't raise ppms of the solution keep it constant and never flush with 0 nutes use a 1/5 or less solution because the cation ability of coco is so great it holds onto the MG like a mofo so if you flush and use plain water it will release all the nutes it holds and hurt your flush.
I don't have time to reformat this on IC but here are some notes I use as a guideline. All info is legit and really works. Memorize it and keep your environment in check and you can grow just as good as me:

CoCo Notes
 CoCo
 pH
• 5.6 – 5.8
• I never let my pH go over 6, I shoot for 5.6-5.8.
• Moving one's pH from 5.8 to 6.2 may slightly increase Mg availability, but it decreases availability of P, Ca, Fe, and Cu.
• The best way to manage cal / mag in coco is by adjusting pH...
o ph below 5.8 achieves higher Ca uptake and lower Mg uptake, thus you reduce the Ca stored in the coco and increases Mg. By using ph over 5.8, you achieve the inverse. Keeping the amounts of Ca and Mg balanced in the coco is the key to having the best yields and avoiding problems.
• phosphorous becomes more available with lower pH.
 Watering
• hardly any runoff...
o Always have runoff, that necessitates holes in the cups and pots. You are not so much "adding" water as you are "exchanging" water.
• Feed every watering
• Increasing watering will increase the rate at which new air is pulled into the medium. Overwatering is really a misnomer. It should be called under oxygenation. If overwatering were really possible then deep water culture wouldn't work.
• Water your coco daily or more often even. Coco does not need to dry out.
Watering daily prevents under oxygenation. You'll under oxygenate if you skip days watering. Watering often pulls new air into the medium as water drains thru.
• The additional waterings are the air supply. As the new water drains through, it forces existing air out of the root zone and pulls new air into the root zone. It is this exchange of air which allows for enough oxygenation, in addition to the fact that the new nutrient that you water with should have a higher dissolved oxygen content than the stagnant solution suspended in the coco.
• Another important consideration in keeping coco wet, is the fact that both concentration and pH fluctuate more as the medium cycles thru wet/dry. If 30% of the water in your coco evaporates then the concentration increases by 30%, and the pH drops a few tenths of a point. Keeping a constant moisture level keeps nutrient availability steadier.
• More watering = faster growth, follow this method... You watch it in action... controlling watering frequency is how you can time my rotation properly... If you need them to slow down, you treat the coco like pro-mix... If you need them to speed up, you treat it like coco and water several times daily...
• If you are watering every other day and your coco is not drying out in between then you have found the O2 problem. Water more often or allow your medium to dry out more.

The only way to really overwater coco is to hit the "just wrong" zone between the "water often to keep fresh O2" school of thought and the "let it dry up" school of thought, where the water sits long enough to stagnate but not long enough to evaporate.
 How plants feed and Cation ability of CoCo
• Plant nutrition is way more about availability than concentration...
Less is indeed more...

Thing is with the 'washing out', that mineral salts in a polar solvent like water dissociate into the component ions... This happens much more readily in a weak solution, than in a concentrated one... Plants feed by exchanging ions from the root hair surface with ions suspended in the solution...Coco has a high cation exchange rate, meaning the cations like Mg, Ca, K and others exchange with cations in the coco, 'attaching' temporarily to the medium... As you water in subsequent waterings, some of the cations in the new solution will exchange with the cations held by the coco, releasing them back into the solution...
Coupled with the diminished need for said nutrient as stretch slows and ripening accelerates, the timing works out right for a proper flush...
 GH Nutes
• GH flora 3-part allows you to control both concentration and ratio...
• Multiply the number of gallons in your reservoir by 6, and add that many ml of micro... Multiply the number of gallons By 9, and add that many ml of bloom...
• Pretty much the regimen to be settled into...Run the 6/9 until the production of new calyx begins to slow... a couple of weeks into flower production on faster flowering strains, a bit longer for 70+ day flowerers... Some of the heavier finishers get the extra 3 ml/gal of bloom that last week... then 0/9 up until flush time...
• You can drop the micro when stretch has completely stopped, and calyx production seems at it's peak... roughly 1/2 way through flowering depending on strain...
• seedlings generally do not need to be fed for the first 10 to 14 days.
• Also, for extremely long flowering strains, leave the micro in a bit longer...
In a 9 week flowerer feed micro up until week 5
In a 12 week flowerer might go 7 weeks or 8...
It does have to vary a bit depending on strain. SSH Flowers for 13 weeks or so, but still cut out the micro after 6 weeks...
• Nutes per grow: 2 gal micro + 3 gal bloom = $150 = 7570 ml micro + 11356 ml bloom = 1260 gallons of nute = 30 gallons every day or every other day (60 gal every 3 days) for almost 65 days.

If you're running so many plants you need to feed 20 gallons of nute/day, and you cannot afford $200/flowering cycle on nutrient, then you are doing something bad bad wrong.

“Also how in the world is a legal 4k garden going to use up 20 gallons a day?
I generally use 5 or 6 gal/day per 3k flower room, and 1 or 2 gallons/day per 400w veg room. I could flower 8k with enough veg to support perpetual and not use 20 gal/day.”
 Calcium
• So many people think you need to supplement Ca because their ratio's are out of balance... My tap water is 6.5 ph and 38-44 ppm with very little, if any, Ca in it at all, and I have NEVER had Ca issues... coco does not need Ca! The proof is my garden... The solution to a deficiency is NOT usually adding more of the deficient element, the solution is to balance the solution by removing competing cations... There is way plenty Ca in the micro(97 ppm in my mix), especially if you are only using micro for your only nitrogen source.
 Clones (GratefulHead style)
• Feed clones full strength from the time they're fully rooted onward.
When I transplant, I transplant into damp coco and skip a couple of days waterings, and then start watering regularly.
• Here is a detail of how I recommend transplanting into solo cups for coco:

1. only use cuts which have begun to grow roots. by this i mean that the cut is actually growing roots, not merely having bumps that will be roots. usually I wait until i see more than one root emerging from the rw cube. if cloning in coco i transplant as soon as I see the cut growing again. when cloning in coco i water cuts often too.

2. hydrate your coco with 1/2 str 6/9. coco should be wet, but not so wet that water drips out when you pick up a handful.

3. loosely fill the cup with coco up to the level where the bottom of the cube will rest. set the cube in. loosely fill in around the cube to the level of the top of the cube. gently drop the cup once from about 1.5 inches high to tamp the coco.

4. 24 hours later begin watering daily, by pouring a small stream of diluted 6/9 nutrient solution directly into the rw cube until nutrient just begins to run out of the cup holes.

5. transplant again in a couple of weeks.
 Gnats
• I have used azamax with success on the gnats.
 Seedling
• You are an idiot if you are putting a seedling in a gallon of coco.
• To prevent dampening off of seedlings I use physan to make sure sterile seedlings go into sterile coco.
Once they are up with seed leaves open gathering light,
I water them daily with pH 6 water for a week, then go to weak nute... when the seed leaves start to yellow I start to increase food...
I have never used a mat, but the room is climate controlled...
o Seeds and Seedlings - Damping Off
Treat seeds and seedlings by soaking in a solution of 1 1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water for 5 minutes. Fill the flask containing the seed or seedlings with enough PHYSAN 20 solution to completely cover the seeds/seedlings. Drain the PHYSAN 20 solution off the seeds/seedlings before planting. Use a fresh solution of PHYSAN 20 for each flask.



Seedlings - Damping Off (ornamental plants only)
Make a solution of 1 1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water. Soak seedlings in PHYSAN 20 for 5 minutes. Use a soak container large enough to completely immerse one flask of seedlings at a time. Change the solution daily or more often if solution becomes visibly dirty.
If a garden soil is used for planting seedlings, completely saturate the soil in PHYSAN 20. Place the soil in a pot or tray and add enough PHYSAN 20 solution to completely cover the soil. Let the solution drain through the soil or pour off excess.
USE: 1 1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water.



PHYSAN 20 solution is effective in stopping the spread of damping off when sprayed on seedlings. Spray seedlings so that all surfaces are thoroughly wet.
USE: 2 tablespoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 3 gallons of water of 2 tsp. PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water.
o I rinse the coco with physan.
Once the seeds pop through I run a drop or two of physan down the stem...

I mix at about 1.5 tsp/gal
 Plant Size
• 1 gal coco per 2 ft of finished plant/roughly... water slowly.
 Potting in coco
• I usually go from solo cups to 1 gals to 3 gals... Flowering is in 3 gals...
 Flushing
• I only flush for about 2 weeks, maybe a day or three longer depending...
I don't do a weekly schedule thingy, though... I generally watch my plants, since some go 9 weeks and some go 11... I feed like veg until the plant completely stops stretching and begins bud formation in earnest, then depending on the plant I will bump up the bloom for a week or two before cutting out the micro just about the time the calyx production begins to slow and budswell begins... I feed 0/9 up until 12-16 days before harvest and then go to water for the rest... If a plant does not look done yet when the day count is right I'll let if go a couple more...
 Transplanting
• 1/5 strength nute water for transplanting cuttings or for seedlings, nute solution for transplanting established plants.
 Environment
• Q: What is the environment you run in? Canopy temps, RH in veg and flower, day and night? A: depends on the location, but I like to run with a canopy temp around 80F at 40%rh with dark temps dropping to 72 or so.

Goodluck

 

[Str8Dank]

I hand formed pearlite into a chunk that would cover the drain holes, then pearlite on top and viola gnats solved...