A New Grower Is BORN!<== S&P TD Series Inline Fan/Carbon Scrubber

[LeeROI]

I don't know where the OP is but north america is still waiting for the 60Hz 120V version of the S&P Silent series (as far as I can tell).

http://global.solerpalau.com/docs/catalogo_general/en_586_596_td_silent_fid5791.pdf

 

[FreezerBoy]

There is no such thing

Cat's 99.44% right. If you want a silent grow, that's called "outdoors."

If you grow indoors with cab or tent, there will be noise. Period.

If you house the cab in a locked room no one is ever allowed to enter, this noise can be tamed and contained.

If the cab is in a common area (garage/bedroom/basement) that receives visitors, they WILL hear the fan. Now you need a distraction or a patsy. Possibilites include: white noise generators, window fans, aquariums, computer servers (these can be fake, shells with blinking lights) something to overpower or take the fall for the noise of the cab.

First thing you'd do on entering my garage is ask, "What the hell is that noise?" Then you'd follow the noise and say, "Oh, it's a banged up old freezer." Stealth without silence. SHOW them the noise, and the noise disappears.

 

[catman]

Also, I'd be skeptical that a panasonic whisperline would move enough air, but I've never actually used one.

They make many models so in confidence I can say there is no need to be skeptical. Selecting the right one is the risk. Besides calculating air exchanges, I'll explain my thought process behind purchasing my latest fan and filter.

I'm in the process of setting up a 4x4x6 space with a 600w HPS and I want to keep noise to a minimum as always. An 8'' diameter PHRESH filter is hardly more expensive than a 6'' and I figure more surface area on the filter creates less static pressure (drag) on a fan, so 8'' it is. S&P's 8'' TD-200 is specced at 538/476 high/low and Panasonic has a Whisper Line specced at 440CFM. Both fans would easily cool my space, but my concern is how a carbon filter will restrict air flow so I compared the static pressure specs as I show below.

Left number is static pressure (higher number means the fan has something applying drag on it) and right number is CFM.
S&P TD-200 Panasonic FV-40NLF1 WhisperLine
0 538 0 472
.125 495 .2 440
.25 458 .4 408
.375 418 .6 370
.5 367 .8 315
.75 190 1 207
1 10 1.2 55

So, even though at 0'' static pressure, the S&P clearly moves more air, the Panasonic looks to handle static pressure (a carbon filter) better. Thus, I purchased the Panasonic and will be testing it out with a 8''x24'' PHRESH filter rated for 750CFM shortly. Haven't seen anyone document such a combination and Bulénath who introduced the Panasonics to our community didn't have much good to say about the larger Whisper fans, but I've put my trust in the numbers and theory; hoping it will work out.

First thing you'd do on entering my garage is ask, "What the hell is that noise?" Then you'd follow the noise and say, "Oh, it's a banged up old freezer." Stealth without silence. SHOW them the noise, and the noise disappears.

Exactly. My new tent will be behind a locked door and a crossed that door is a furnance room. I'll place a normal house-hold looking fan by the furnance door so ya know, I can distrbute normal house-hold air around if anyone asks. I also like to keep things quiet because my neighbors are only a wall a way.

 

[pokerg1]

aftering considering everyones posts, ive decided that the s&p td 150 series would best suit my needs running at approx 293/218 high/low setting.

the phresh filters came up alot as being a good filter so whether i run it at 293 or 218, would it be better to go with the 200 cfm or 400 cfm??
is it better to have more cfm than what the filter can handle or less??

i figured that since the s&p isnt as strong as other fans, the 200 cfm phresh filter would work well within my space of 2x2x5 whether i decided to use the 293/218 setting. i just dont know if the 400 cfm filter would have resistance from the air inflow making it less effective than the 200 cfm filter since its made for a 400 cfm fan. or would it be better to find a totaly different filter with 300 cfm. i plan to connect filter>fan>cooltube>exhaust hole

im also leaning towards the elf carbon filter running at Optimal CFM Range: 150-265 but there isnt more info out there on how effective they are =/

thanks everybodyyyyyyy

 

[stonedar]

what kinda cool-tube?

elf/goblin are crap they usually have more carbon loose in the box then in the filter

 

[qupee]

aftering considering everyones posts, ive decided that the s&p td 150 series would best suit my needs running at approx 293/218 high/low setting.

the phresh filters came up alot as being a good filter so whether i run it at 293 or 218, would it be better to go with the 200 cfm or 400 cfm??
is it better to have more cfm than what the filter can handle or less??

i figured that since the s&p isnt as strong as other fans, the 200 cfm phresh filter would work well within my space of 2x2x5 whether i decided to use the 293/218 setting. i just dont know if the 400 cfm filter would have resistance from the air inflow making it less effective than the 200 cfm filter since its made for a 400 cfm fan. or would it be better to find a totaly different filter with 300 cfm. i plan to connect filter>fan>cooltube>exhaust hole

im also leaning towards the elf carbon filter running at Optimal CFM Range: 150-265 but there isnt more info out there on how effective they are =/

thanks everybodyyyyyyy

The CFM of your filter can be higher than that of your fan.

If you exceed the cfm of your filter, the air will not be in contact with the carbon enough to properly filter, but the opposite is not true.

The only disadvantages I'm aware by going larger on the filter is larger size and more weight. A larger filter should present the same or less resistance as a smaller filter.

I think a 400 cfm filter would be fine for a TD-150. A 200 cfm filter might be cutting it close.

 

[pokerg1]

what kinda cool-tube?

elf/goblin are crap they usually have more carbon loose in the box then in the filter

Hydrolux Cool Tube Reflector - 6 in.
http://www.thehydrosource.com/Lighting/Reflectors/Hydrolux_Cool_Tube_Reflector_6_In.

u know a better one to get? recommend me

recommend a ph/ppm meter while your at it lol
what kind of price ranged meter should a first time grower buy??
do i need to get calibration and cleaning solution also?? ahhhhhh
i love these smileys lol

 

[qupee]

Some people will say only use pH strips or drops. I've had great experience with my Oakton EcoTestr pH pen. I got an average ppm meter from the local shop. I keep 4.0 and 7.0 calibration solution around to check and recalibrate (only needed to once so far). I do not use any cleaning or storage solution. The Oakton EcoTestr I have now I've been using for a year and a half. The batteries died a few months ago for the first time, and I recalibrated after putting in new ones.

 

[pokerg1]

I have S&P TD 350 Silent on a PHAT RHINO 300m3 carbon filter in my cab.Footprint of the cab is 45cm X 83cm and there`s a 250 watt hps sunmaster + 100 watt of cfl in there.The TD is run by a two speed controler(COM2) also by S&P,with low speed rated at 280m3 and high speed at 360?m3.I`m very happy with the result so far,just 2-3 celsious over ambient under the canopy,set on low speed.The motor itself has a very "light" sound which can be exterminated with soundproofing material,but there`s sound from air rushing out...i dedicated the top foot of the cab to create a muffler,air entries from left bottom side and exits from a hole on top right after going through three 90 degree turns i`ve created
with soundproofing material.The whole muffler is dressed with the same material and also houses the ballast.
Hope this is going to help..

how does the stink work out in that space u got there??



so i decided to go with the td 150 and prob run it at the 300 cfm/high setting and 400 cfm phresh filter.
how bad would it stink if i got VERY VERY STINKY strain?????
im planning on getting the serious seeds ak47 and white russian and grow 4 plants in prob 2 or 3 gal pots in coco(most likely inside a closet) and read that they are one of the stinkiest strain to grow. i hope my setup is enough to netrualize the smell.
(if someone gives me an example of their fan/filter and how close they have to get to their plants to smell it during flowering or harvest would be nice)

hey,
thanks everyone again and qupee u have helped me quite a bit in the past few days

 

[qupee]

You shouldn't have any stink bro that setup should handle it great.

Glad I am of some help. I read this forum (mostly) and others for more than half a year before buying a single piece of equipment. It was a part time job, just digesting info and planning.

Now I try to reconcile what I've read (and figure most others have read the same stuff) with what I've experienced. The info here is great, but I found a lot of little differences between what I read and what I experienced.

Overall I'm still just a newb though ;-)

 

[qupee]

They make many models so in confidence I can say there is no need to be skeptical. Selecting the right one is the risk. Besides calculating air exchanges, I'll explain my thought process behind purchasing my latest fan and filter.

I'm in the process of setting up a 4x4x6 space with a 600w HPS and I want to keep noise to a minimum as always. An 8'' diameter PHRESH filter is hardly more expensive than a 6'' and I figure more surface area on the filter creates less static pressure (drag) on a fan, so 8'' it is. S&P's 8'' TD-200 is specced at 538/476 high/low and Panasonic has a Whisper Line specced at 440CFM. Both fans would easily cool my space, but my concern is how a carbon filter will restrict air flow so I compared the static pressure specs as I show below.

Left number is static pressure (higher number means the fan has something applying drag on it) and right number is CFM.
S&P TD-200 Panasonic FV-40NLF1 WhisperLine
0 538 0 472
.125 495 .2 440
.25 458 .4 408
.375 418 .6 370
.5 367 .8 315
.75 190 1 207
1 10 1.2 55

So, even though at 0'' static pressure, the S&P clearly moves more air, the Panasonic looks to handle static pressure (a carbon filter) better. Thus, I purchased the Panasonic and will be testing it out with a 8''x24'' PHRESH filter rated for 750CFM shortly. Haven't seen anyone document such a combination and Bulénath who introduced the Panasonics to our community didn't have much good to say about the larger Whisper fans, but I've put my trust in the numbers and theory; hoping it will work out.



Exactly. My new tent will be behind a locked door and a crossed that door is a furnance room. I'll place a normal house-hold looking fan by the furnance door so ya know, I can distrbute normal house-hold air around if anyone asks. I also like to keep things quiet because my neighbors are only a wall a way.

Interesting. I recall when the first Whisperline thread went up here on ICMag.

I seemed to have it in my mind that there was only one or two models of Whisperline's and only on the low end of CFM's. That may or may not have been true then but obviously is not now.

 

[catman]

Interesting. I recall when the first Whisperline thread went up here on ICMag.

I seemed to have it in my mind that there was only one or two models of Whisperline's and only on the low end of CFM's. That may or may not have been true then but obviously is not now.

It wasn't true in the past (that they didn't have larger models) and only a few people poorly documented experiences with larger models. I have the 440 with a 8''x24'' PHRESH running just fine this very moment. I've had a 6'' 460 CFM ValueLine fan from HTG in the past and this Whisper is significantly quieter. All the Whisper fans seem to produce sound that is of a deeper tone which is further away from human hearing so I think this is one reason they sound so quiet. The ValueLine seriously sounded like a jet engine compared to this new Whisper. I've seen so many people describe 8" Vortex fans as silent while others say jet engine so to each his own. Panasonic Whisper fans are designed to be quiet and I've been happy with them.

 

[pokerg1]

A TD-150 will match up with a Can 33 quite well. However, I'd look for something like a Phresh filter. Much lighter and as good as, if not better than, a Can.

A 400w is going to be a bit much for that tent. A DR80 on the other hand is perfect size for 400w.

Ultimately, a TD-150 and Can 33 should keep that tent as close as possible to ambient. Another option would be a 4" centrifugal. A 4" Sunleaves, for example, will move about as much air as a TD-150 in most circumstances. And if your ventilation run is twisty or long, the 4" centrifugal is going to end up moving more air than the TD-150.

Both the TD-150 and 4" centrifugal are fairly quiet (it will vary by brand/model on the centrifugal). They will be loud enough that you could not have one in the same room without hearing it, but it could be behind a door and inaudible. I might actually give the edge to the 4" Sunleaves centrifugal. I've heard both in the same room, and ya I'd say the 4" centrifugal was quieter, and I'd say you could work with it more to reduce that noise - moreso than the TD-150..

hey qupee,
do u think that if i went with a GL80(approx 2.5'x2.5'x6') or a
DR90(approx 3'x3'x6') and move up to a 400w cmh, i can still use 150 td +400 cfm phresh filter or would i have to go up 1 more level on the fan to the 200 td series??

(im not too worried on the heat issue since cmh bulbs give off alot less heat then hps but more in the ability to cause a negative pressure in the tent to scrub the smell)
(if i dont need to go up to 200 td series that would be better since im trying to keep noise level to a minimum also)

 

[RetroGrow]

If you want quiet, you cannot beat the Panasonic Whisperline. It's big, though. I use mine with a PHAT filter, 6".

This fan is large, powerful, and quiet. It's actually 8 inches, but I have a 6" reducer for this small room.

 

[qupee]

hey qupee,
do u think that if i went with a GL80(approx 2.5'x2.5'x6') or a
DR90(approx 3'x3'x6') and move up to a 400w cmh, i can still use 150 td +400 cfm phresh filter or would i have to go up 1 more level on the fan to the 200 td series??

(im not too worried on the heat issue since cmh bulbs give off alot less heat then hps but more in the ability to cause a negative pressure in the tent to scrub the smell)
(if i dont need to go up to 200 td series that would be better since im trying to keep noise level to a minimum also)

You'll be fine. imo, it's easier to cool a bigger space than a small space, if they have the same amount of light. And the td-150 will give you plenty of negative pressure.

I use a TD-200 to pull from a 4x4 tent and a 5x5 tent and push through a 10x24 Phresh filter, and the 4x4 has so much negative pressure that I can't oscillate the fan in the corner cause it gets stuck and goes click-click-click when it pushes against the side of the tent. That's with the TD-200 on low speed, too.

If you want quiet, you cannot beat the Panasonic Whisperline. It's big, though. I use mine with a PHAT filter, 6".

This fan is large, powerful, and quiet. It's actually 8 inches, but I have a 6" reducer for this small room.

Holy crap, I had no idea they made em like that... I thought they only had whisperlines the size of bathroom fans. Boy was I wrong.

 

[catman]

The 440 in a DR120 (4x4)

 

[pokerg1]

You'll be fine. imo, it's easier to cool a bigger space than a small space, if they have the same amount of light. And the td-150 will give you plenty of negative pressure.

I use a TD-200 to pull from a 4x4 tent and a 5x5 tent and push through a 10x24 Phresh filter, and the 4x4 has so much negative pressure that I can't oscillate the fan in the corner cause it gets stuck and goes click-click-click when it pushes against the side of the tent. That's with the TD-200 on low speed, too.

seems like it would be too much negative pressure using a td-150 in a 2x2x5 tent. maybe i should get the td-125?? i read somewhere that too much negative pressure(maybe under ventilation 101?)will cause a windtunnel grow tent which wont be that good for growing. whats your take on this????

I have the S&P TD-100X: http://www.lightingdirect.com/soler-and-palau-td-100x-4-100mm-inline-mixed-flow-duct-fan/p934766 (This site ships to canada ) I did not realize they had a TD-125, or else I would have gotten that one since it is 5 inches and that is the same size as the DR80 tent holes, the extra flow would have also been nice. The TD-100X is barely cutting it right now (temps normally get up to 78-80, however with my current disabled fan its up to 82 in one spot of the canopy), however I have quite a few turns in my ducting so the slow is far from optimal. I also made a 24inch exhaust silencer which probably inhibits flow even further.
The S&P fans are

hes using the 3x3 tent and 400w hps

 

[qupee]

seems like it would be too much negative pressure using a td-150 in a 2x2x5 tent. maybe i should get the td-125?? i read somewhere that too much negative pressure(maybe under ventilation 101?)will cause a windtunnel grow tent which wont be that good for growing. whats your take on this????

I have a 4x4 that's got so much negative pressure I can't oscillate the fan in the corner cause it hits the sides, it's sucked way in. Plants are healthy as can be.

I don't think you'll have too much neg pressure in a 2x2x5 with a td-150, either. You will probably find that the low speed circut is a good amount of air flow. High will probably be more than you need.

The thing about the TD-125, and I have one, is that - at least in the US - 5" duct is nowhere to be found. You have to have it ordered to get it anywhere. I just hooked a couple 5"-4" adapaters onto the fan and they've been on there since. That said, I'd recommend the 150 over the 125. I think that guy would find the 125 doesn't add much at all over the 100x. In fact, he should probably go straight to the 150, too.

 

[pokerg1]

I have a 4x4 that's got so much negative pressure I can't oscillate the fan in the corner cause it hits the sides, it's sucked way in. Plants are healthy as can be.

I don't think you'll have too much neg pressure in a 2x2x5 with a td-150, either. You will probably find that the low speed circut is a good amount of air flow. High will probably be more than you need.

The thing about the TD-125, and I have one, is that - at least in the US - 5" duct is nowhere to be found. You have to have it ordered to get it anywhere. I just hooked a couple 5"-4" adapaters onto the fan and they've been on there since. That said, I'd recommend the 150 over the 125. I think that guy would find the 125 doesn't add much at all over the 100x. In fact, he should probably go straight to the 150, too.

hey thanks for your input

td 150 at low is 218 cfm. if i leave it on low, still get the 400 cfm rated phresh filter???

 

[qupee]

a little bit extra capacity on the filter never hurt anyone ;-)