newbie autoflower breeding

[Outdoorsguy]

Hi

Im really new to autoflowers and i decided to go for these because i really would like to get more harvest in year than what i could get with normal plants. Not necessarily more weed but more often and i really like to play around growing things and i think breeding would be next logical step for me in learning new things.

I got my hands on mixed autoflower seeds (lowryder, swestar, etc.). The guy i bought these from wasnt even sure what was in there... just that everything in AF. I planted 24 seeds and they are starting to get out from soil atm, so its very early still. Now im thinking that what do i need to take into consideration when i choose which male i get pollen from and what females i choose to seed?

Is it perhaps possible to breed two different strains, 1 with more indica dominant and other more sativa? Do i just look at width of leaves and go from that or how in earth do ppl choose which plant to go for?

I hope there is some experienced AF breeders that could give some pointers which way to go

 

[*mr.mike*]

I think you should just stick with picking your most vigorous, truly early autoflowering, and perhaps stinkiest males...

Of course, "breeding" means a lot more than a bag of mixed seeds. Maybe just grow out what you can, get used to what you make and the traits, then "whittle down" from there. If you've got a couple of mutts, all you'll get is mutts from them. Not saying they won't be good, or even great dogs, just saying...

Good luck, and definitiely go for it. Nothing to lose, and some good weed to gain.

 

[smokefrogg]

since you don't know exactly what it is and if it's been bred with anything else, let's just assume they are f1 hybrids.

an f1 hybrid where only 1 parent shows the trait of autoflowering will not autoflower itself, the genes are recessive and will be overshadowed by the dominant trait of being photoperiod sensitive, this is why you'd need to make the second generation (f2) in order to see any autoflowering in your plants.......so, you may not see any autoflowering with your seeds and if that is the case, don't give up, you just need to make the next generation with them and then you should finally begin to see autoflowering traits

if it were me, i'd grow them all out and under 24 hours of light, if any of them autoflower i'd select those and let them openly pollinate, create my f2 that way and grow those all out under 24 hours of light selecting the autoflowering ones and letting those openly pollinate to get to f3, with the third generation they should all be autoflowering by then, at that point i'd begin my hunt for specific traits that i like for the plants such as smell and growth structure and phatness of buds etc. etc.....

imo, nail down the autoflowering trait first! that way you will get to your goal of having something to harvest even outside every couple months, after that focus on getting the strength and flavors and smell that you like

 

[Outdoorsguy]

I believe that all the seeds are AF seeds and not bred with non-AF. I suppose i just trust the guy i got the seeds from.

How ever so far i marked those pots that had 4 best germinating seeds and 3 pots that have fastest plant in soil surface. I dont know if this is trait i should be looking or even something you can control when breeding but im trying to figure all aspects when choosing what plants to use.

I tried for the 1st time to use some rooting hormone in germinating seeds (2 drops clonex gel in 1,5 litres well oxycinated water) and all 24 seeds have germinated, couple still not in surface of soil, looked fine when i planted those though. I watered the soil with that water too in hope of promoting rapid root growing. But that was just some side testing... main thing here is the AF seeds and breeding

Im thinking i will try to get pollen from only 1 male, the best there is... is this a thing that you guys would do or should i go for more males? Im trying to use pollen to seed only specific females and let rest of them grow unseeded so i get something to smoke too edit: maybe i should just seed all plants but not every branch and bud? so if there is some plant that i really fall in love with smoking but it looked like shit, atleast i have those seeds then to work with?

Is there something obvious pot holes (pun intended) that i could fall in and really fuck up my seeds?

I suppose i should set up some goals already even though it is pretty early. I think i would like to grow many plants at the same time so the size of one induvidual plant cant be too large. I dont use large amounts of lights (only 100-200W cfl (2 closets so it varies)) so the plants cant be really tall either... i lose a lot of light when distance from lower buds increase.

My aim could be widest leaves possible so indica trait is dominant ( i hope i get this right ) and 1 big main bud rather than lots of branches and small buds everywhere. This way i could get plants pretty close to each other and get more plants in my grow area. Tight SOG is propably what im after. Im growing indoors only atm, so im not looking for something that would suite outdoors growers too.

There propably is many commercially available seeds that have these traits so i could just buy those, but where is the fun in that?

What do you guys think... is this something i could achieve or am i chasing the moon here?

 

[smokefrogg]

I believe that all the seeds are AF seeds and not bred with non-AF. I suppose i just trust the guy i got the seeds from.

ahh gotcha', in the original post it sounded like you had doubt...well that'll make things much easier and more expedient for breeding what you want =)

How ever so far i marked those pots that had 4 best germinating seeds and 3 pots that have fastest plant in soil surface. I dont know if this is trait i should be looking or even something you can control when breeding but im trying to figure all aspects when choosing what plants to use.

I tried for the 1st time to use some rooting hormone in germinating seeds (2 drops clonex gel in 1,5 litres well oxycinated water) and all 24 seeds have germinated, couple still not in surface of soil, looked fine when i planted those though. I watered the soil with that water too in hope of promoting rapid root growing. But that was just some side testing... main thing here is the AF seeds and breeding

Im thinking i will try to get pollen from only 1 male, the best there is... is this a thing that you guys would do or should i go for more males? Im trying to use pollen to seed only specific females and let rest of them grow unseeded so i get something to smoke too edit: maybe i should just seed all plants but not every branch and bud? so if there is some plant that i really fall in love with smoking but it looked like shit, atleast i have those seeds then to work with?

Is there something obvious pot holes (pun intended) that i could fall in and really fuck up my seeds?

I suppose i should set up some goals already even though it is pretty early. I think i would like to grow many plants at the same time so the size of one induvidual plant cant be too large. I dont use large amounts of lights (only 100-200W cfl (2 closets so it varies)) so the plants cant be really tall either... i lose a lot of light when distance from lower buds increase.

My aim could be widest leaves possible so indica trait is dominant ( i hope i get this right ) and 1 big main bud rather than lots of branches and small buds everywhere. This way i could get plants pretty close to each other and get more plants in my grow area. Tight SOG is propably what im after. Im growing indoors only atm, so im not looking for something that would suite outdoors growers too.

There propably is many commercially available seeds that have these traits so i could just buy those, but where is the fun in that?

What do you guys think... is this something i could achieve or am i chasing the moon here?

well if you want just 1 male, maybe pick the shortest one since you said you don't want anything that gets too tall...you can get more variation if you choose a few that show the short and fat leaf traits you're looking for instead of just 1 though

i don't think you're chasing the moon, although if you were then let's say the moon is within your reach!

 

[*mr.mike*]

Im thinking i will try to get pollen from only 1 male, the best there is... is this a thing that you guys would do or should i go for more males? Im trying to use pollen to seed only specific females and let rest of them grow unseeded so i get something to smoke too edit: maybe i should just seed all plants but not every branch and bud? so if there is some plant that i really fall in love with smoking but it looked like shit, atleast i have those seeds then to work with?


I suppose i should set up some goals already even though it is pretty early. I think i would like to grow many plants at the same time so the size of one induvidual plant cant be too large. I dont use large amounts of lights (only 100-200W cfl (2 closets so it varies)) so the plants cant be really tall either... i lose a lot of light when distance from lower buds increase.

My aim could be widest leaves possible so indica trait is dominant ( i hope i get this right ) and 1 big main bud rather than lots of branches and small buds everywhere.

Yeah, you could always use a paintbrush and pollinate individual lower branches of each plant. I would use pollen from as many males as possible, as variation is a good thing, in this case.

Don't worry about them getting too tall, you can always LST them for your first batch, or... (see below)

well if you want just 1 male, maybe pick the shortest one since you said you don't want anything that gets too tall...you can get more variation if you choose a few that show the short and fat leaf traits you're looking for instead of just 1 though

I think picking the shortest one is a big gamble, if you look at autoflowers. Many, if not all autos, sometimes throw off dwarf individuals... plants that grow about 4 to 5' tall, and give you a gram (if lucky) worth of bud. I'd pick the best males... later you can always do a creative LST to grow them how you want, or (now) just plant them in smaller pots... if I want something smaller than 40 cm, I just pot it up to a 2 liter pot. Often, I want it one foot, or less, and the 2 liter pot, minus a bit of dirt, or a late transplant usually keeps me there.

About traits and leaf shape... that might be true concerning "pure" indicas, or even some known hybrids. Autos, from the get go, are descended from ruderalis (probably a minor genetic component in all reality), and sativa/indica hybrids. Chemotype isn't going to be going so much one way or the other, unless the strain was developed using specific indica or sativa crosses to the original autos used for the cross... if they are swestar and lowryder, you can be sure that they won't seem so much more towards indica as much as mixy, and you certainly won't have to worry about them getting very tall at all.

 

[smokefrogg]

man very good point on the dwarf autos, well i'm not sure what would be the best way to go about determining which male to keep

i have seen a few dwarfs in my own garden, i have some different breeding goals though so i have used them...we kept getting this dwarf og out of some seed stock that i wound up using for instance hehe, the thing grows like a dandelion with 1 bud maybe a gram on top, it is fire for sure, but man that is a small fire!...it would be perfect if there were thousands of them spread out like a carpet on the side of a few random southern facing slopes though

 

[Outdoorsguy]

thank you all for answering... it takes now couple weeks atleast untill i get to point where 1st males start to show sex. im taking all advices to heart and post more information and perhaps pictures what choises im making

 

[Outdoorsguy]

I have selected best looking male with very tight groups of balls and the size of it is pretty much what i have in mind... pretty small only about 20cm tall. Pot is very small too so that holds the plant back a lot i think. Plant is now isolated to own closet and has only about 50w cfl but i think its enough for this purpose.

plant is full of balls but how long does it take to get some pollen from it?

When i get pollen i either use it immediately or dry it couple days and put it in refrigerator and it should stay good in there for long time?

 

[Scyntra]

sence you have it isolated I would let it go untill it starts to drop pollen on its on, then cut the top off and lay it on a dark color plate for a day in a dark place. after a day give it a little shake and the plate will be covered it pollen... you can use immediately or you can leave it on the plate for a week or so to make sure its all the way dry,scrape it up and store in something airtight and put in the freezer...it should stay good for a few years, the trick is it must be completely dry before freezing or the water will bust the pollen.. use a qtip to pollinate the smaller buds on several of your plants, you never know what you may end up makeing...

 

[skullznroses]

AF breeding--> Go big, or go biddy

AF breeding--> Go big, or go biddy

I have done a few rounds of breeding w/ Onyx.

I have used two males:

1) big tall guy- his babies have been the best. He was probably close 24" inches tall if I had let him go straight. The seeds produced have been better in some ways. A few of the babies are super-big autos. The only problem, is that a few of the super-big autos showed some hermi tendencies. Regardless, they have a much more cannabis structure to them with side branches w/ decent bud on them. The smaller pheno from this group is the best, growing a 18" tall plant with a nice phat cola on the side, and 4/8 side branches. I bred two of this generation, the tall hermi, and the medium perfect plant. I honestly think the best seeds will come from the Hermi mom, since her buds and structure were magnificent. The seeds themselves are HUGe, best batch I have made, in fact the phattest seeds I ever held.

2)Medium "tight" bud male- His babies are the most consistent. He was closer to 16" tall. His babies are all consistent, but I think this is were the DWARF issue comes in, they are definitely on the small side. The plants are nice, but they all grow to be 12-14" with one main cola, and I haven't gotten any tall phenos from his kids yet. They grow out and bud nicely with little work required (the tall phenos were trickier).

Im sure with the variation with genetics my tale could have gone another way if I had had different luck. Im no expert, but Im sure you must experiment for a while before you know anything for a fact.

My number one recomendation is breed a little bigger then you think you want, as some of the seeds resulting will be both taller and shorter. My experience has told me the shorter plants just like to breed shorter.

I don't even smoke the autos, just make hash out of them. I like my best phenos smoke enough that after perfecting a few plants I might even add some to my smoke jars. Breeding these little babies is just for fun, and so that eventually I have an AF plant I can enjoy. Everything good is worth a wait right?

With that, Im going to have my Saturday morning wake and bake...

 

[skullznroses]

This thread explains everything you need to know...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=199384&highlight=collecting+male+pollen