PLL Club. (if you don't know, now you know)

[Milhouse]

Good call Rives, yah just situate them long ways in your cab, never thought of that! Depending on your ventilation / cooling situation, I might suggest 440w. My cab is approx 48"w x 24" deep and I have 440w running in mine. Actually have another 220w of side lighting installed but is too hot to run 6 months out of the year.

The side lighting does come in handy when having different size plants in a cab!! That was a unintentional benefit from installing them, while my full flowering plants are soaking up the top lights, the plants that just started flowering are lit by the side lighting. It really allowed me to cram more plants into the cab. I didnt have to worry about canopy space as much since the little plants werent even in the main canopy, they were approx 8-12" below.

 

[Garuda]

Might go with the 36w and just use more of them. not sure on the length of the 36w.

Mine are 41cm (inc. fixture), hope this helps

 

[Milhouse]

Cool, thanks Garuda!!

 

[monoclepop]

Hey PLL club, just wanted to say thanks to all for the fantastic information in here. I've just retrofitted to PLL from growing with CFL bulbs for the last two years.

I now have half the power usage, a quarter of the heat and I'd say six times the light intensity. Plants are exploding.

To anyone newbie thinking of CFL - just take a moment to consider how much better PLL is all round.

 

[9 1/2]

hey guys whats up. i just wanted to know what 2g11 base do u guys use i see in 1000 web. that they have two styles.

i was also reading that the workhorse ballast are not that good yet i see everyone using them. as i also read that the bulbs only push out about 3000 lumen, is this true. if so what ballast and bulbs do you guys recommend.

Milhouse ---how are youre two workhorse 8 with 8 bulbs working for you. i thought you can only wire 3 55w per ballast you have 4. any hotter or as you add a fourth the light dims.

i did read this whole thread and the other ones you guys posted. i just wanted to clear up some stuff. i do thank you for all the info. THANX

 

[Anti]

i thought you can only wire 3 55w per ballast you have 4. any hotter or as you add a fourth the light dims.

Fulham used to rate the workhorse 7 & 8 to handle 4x55w. About a year ago their new specs came out and now they say 4x50w or 3x55w. 55x4=220. The ballasts are rated for 220w. So basically they're saying, if you run at 4x55w you're maxing the ballast out. Under normal usage (lights come on and off periodically throughout the day) you'd probably see more bulb burnout and possibly blown ballast.

But the way WE use their ballast is to have it turn on and off once a day. So a lot of people are still using 4x55 and going for broke.

 

[9 1/2]

Thank you Anti for youre fast reply. now i understand, what do you mean by the expretion going for broke i am not trying to be a smart ass.

i think ill just use 3 workhorse just so the ballast runs a little cooler and more life for the ballast.. thanx again for clearing it up for me.

 

[Anti]

what do you mean by the expretion going for broke

Well, basically, they're rolling the dice. They're gambling that the ballast won't burn out before they get their $40 worth.

Some people here have been running their ballast at 4x55w for years without reporting any problems.

 

[9 1/2]

Oh ok, i get you. thank you for youre help.

 

[2000pm]

Just dredging this one up - planning on 4x55W soon (yea i'll still try a 250 at some point hps guys ) . I am going to go 3000K for flower since they're easily available compared to the 2700Ks, but wanted to know what I should mix spectrum with for veg.

Anyone been experimenting lately with some new info?

 

[rives]

I've used the 4100K lamps both for vegging and for my mom's, and they work great - they might even keep your plant too short and tight. The "highpod" used the 4100's clear through, and got a hell of a yield.

 

[cosmik debris]

I've been using these:
Advance Centium ICN-2S54 - (2) Lamp - F54T5/HO - 120/277 Volt - Programmed Start - 1.02 Ballast Factor: $35.06 a piece if ya buy 'em 10+ at a time, otherwise about a buck a piece more for fewer than ten.

The Fulham W.H. 8's are very fine general duty types that run about $44 a piece but they do light more lamps. The biggest differences for me were that the Fulham's are 'Instant Start' (which consumes more power and reduces lamp life by roughly 30-40% compared to the Advance's 'Program Start'), and the difference in Ballast Factor. The W.H. 8, as well as most of the Fulham Work Horse series, provide a Ballast Factor of 87% vs. the 102% from the Advance unit. The 15 point difference isn't the end of the world, but it is a difference. If room for mounting ballasts and the added cost isn't a concern I'd say go with the Advance.

Ballast Factors are discussed elsewhere but in short the number represents the percentage of rated output that you will actually receive from the appropriate lamps that a given ballast were designed and tuned for. For example, using Eiko 55 watt 6500K lamps ($3.86 a piece / 25+) the W.H. 8 is going to actually generate 47.85 watts per lamp up to its rated max which is 220 watts total. So 4 x 55 watt lamps will be 191.4 watt total output. The 1.02 B.F. will give me 56.1 watts per lamp so (4) lamps driven by (2) of the Advance ballasts gives me 224.4 watts from the same equivalent number of lamps. This works out to $.23/watt for the Fulham and $.31/watt for the Advance, or $26 for 36 more watts from the same number of lamps. There is also a difference in terms of which will give you the best rendering of the lamps actual designed spectral output. Under driving or lower ballast factors are said to generate a different spectrum from a higher B.F. and properly powered lamp, but I don't have enough experience working with them to comment on how significant this is, if at all.

If lamp space, power consumption and lamp life concern you I would spend the extra, if not - then don't worry about it. Plenty of people have been growing lots of great stuff wih the Fulhams for quite some time now. I just wanted that little bit extra, and it works great. Don't get caught up in the lumens. It's a relative number that really has no bearing on what the plants see. Lumens are for human eyes, not photosynthesis. The differences in lamp life probably won't matter to ya 'cuz a lot of folks start with fresh bulbs for each new grow, and the lamps are pretty cheap, but if you run a perpetual SOG where you don't have an end of harvest to remind you or prefer using more of the lamp's life up (I'm sure you read that their output does diminish over time) the programmed start ballasts will give you significantly better performance and lower energy consumption.
Tomato - tomotto, everybody's situation is unique.

Current project is two High Pods with (16) 55's stacked two high end to end in (8) pairs spaced around the circumference, and then another (4) in an adjustable reflector over head. I'm gonna try running a central CO2 system to feed both isolated grow chambers and O2 enrichment on the aeroponic root zone. The original trash can version ran with no top lighting or gas and in dirt - and he ran the same lamps for veg and flower where I'm gonna switch 'em out - so this is a kind of max tweak of an existing idea. It's a lot of shit for a 3'x3'x6' box, and ain't exactly stealth lookin', but if yer in a State that counts plants - a little micro SOG's gonna hurt a lot worse than two Jack and the Beanstalk bushes. Maybe I can paint a 'Red Man' ad on the side and disguise it as a grain silo?

Hey...anybody try a silo grow yet?

 

[rives]

Cosmik, I started looking into the whole ballast factor thing a lot more closely when Sgt. Stedenko posted about it. I run a number of PL-L's, and an additional 15% light sounded great to me. I contacted the people at AH Supply to question them about it, and they told me that I was barking up the wrong tree. Ballast factor only applies to the specific lamp/ballast combination that is tested - other lamps that seem to be close (ie:T54HO) aren't a valid comparison, and may be wildly different, even though the ballast may light both lamps.

So, after much digging, the only documentation that I have been able to find for the ballast factor of the Advance Centium 1CN-2S54-*** using (2) 55 watt PL-L lamps is in the following document from Advance on page I-33. I don't know what the suffix on the Centium part numbers (+, 90C+, 90C-SC) in the table mean - I haven't seen them in the part numbers anywhere else for the Centiums. At any rate, the point of all this is that the ballast factor shown for this particular lamp/ballast combination is .90.

The people at AH Supply told me that the ballast factor for the Fulham WH-5 (not the WH-5-CG, it is much lower) with the 55w PL-L's is 1.05. I have not been able to find any documentation to support this number.

If you know of any documentation on the ballast factors for these specific lamp/ballast combinations, I would be very interested in seeing it.

http://www.advance.philips.com/documents/uploads/literature/Section 1.pdf

 

[2000pm]

I hope that's true as I plan on using those AH supply fixtures.

 

[rives]

2000-

I've used a bunch of their kits - built a 330 watt fixture; a fixture with 220 watts + 180 watts of led's; supplemental side lighting in one tent; and my mom cab. They are incredibly complete and very well done, and their service is great. After poking a couple of holes in my scalp on the corners of the reflectors, I've started rounding off the corners with a pair of tin snips and use a sharpening stone to knock the sharp edge off of the long dimension. Perhaps there are a few more lumens available with a different ballast, but I haven't really seen anything to back that up as I said above. I think you will be happy with them.

 

[trichogg]

I'm pretty deep into floro technology and have seen some amazing results by way of cfl and floros. I wanted to originally run 34w pll's in my mini trite but I went with overdriven floros. I wanna setup a pll mini fridge. Can I get some help from the pll gurus out in IC land. The cab area is 31hX18.5wX15deep. I wanna run ngb style for venting, help.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I am in the process of putting together a new fixture, and was curious if anyone had tried over-driving PL-L lamps. By overdriving, I mean driving the lamp with more power than what it is designed for

I noticed this question wasn't completely addressed.

The Pl-l lamps are basically overdriven T5's already. Notice how hot the base gets during normal operation. Overdriving isn't really recommended for that reason.

I do know the Fulham ballasts won't overdrive the Pl-l's as they're electronic and automatically detect the lamp type.

Keep your ballasts at 75F and below to get the best life out of them. Outside your cab near the fresh air intake is good... always cool air.

Stay Safe!

 

[ScrubNinja]

Trichogg, have you considered vertical lights? Using your vertical height you could potentially fit the 55w bulbs. They put out considerably more lumens per watt than the smaller wattages, last time I checked anyway. Also, what's a mini trite?

 

[GF-Z]

Sorry for interupting, but they could suit whole grow (6x26w, or 8x26w) mixed spectrum from 2500 to 6400k ?? I hawe very limited height at this momment(stealth...), exactly 50cm... so it would be good for auto mixed fem varietys??? Try to run full organic hot soilbed.? And ne more question, how much cost ballasts and ignitors??? Thanks for help, im stepping into PL-L club on 2012

 

[big twinn]

I've been running both my workhorse 8s with 4 55watt bulbs for over a year, no issues yet.