How does starting PPM dictate feeding?

[jungliedunglies]

OK fellas/ladies.....I'm sorry. I have searched and read a fair amount, yet I am left with this nagging question in my mind about just what the title says.

I have NEVER paid attention to PPM as a soil grower; certainly not a bad idea, but just something I never have had the means to do. Obivously switching to hydro, this is has to change.

Went out and bought an RO filter, yay for me...........after that I went out and bought a TDS pen...........tap water at my place is 25 ppm..........DOH, double dumbass on me yet again. Doesn't really apply, but wanted to share that just in support of my self depricating sense of humor.

What does apply is that in either case I'm starting with very low PPM water. I'm lost. Utterly lost on where to start with PPM's. Will be going from seed FWIW, starting in rockwool and moving to a URDWC system w/ airstones and a small airgap in each bucket.

It seems that many start in the 400-500 range.....Let's just say that is a good number for the sake of my question. So, Grower A starts with tap water at 150 PPM; he/she can only add 350 PPM in nutes before he/she is at 500 PPM. Now, Grower B starts will 5 PPM RO water; he/she can add 495 PPM of nutes before reaching 500 PPM.

We have no idea what that initial PPM of the tap water consists of. I guess what I'm asking, is when we say 400-500 PPM, are we talking 400-500 PPM of just nutes, or total soup. In other words, does the grower who starts with low PPM just get the added benefit of knowing that his 500 PPM consists almost entirely of nutes, while the high initial grower must accept that some is unknown.

Does the typical tap grower tend to bump nute levels higher to compensate while an RO grower might tend to lower them a bit in general? I hope this makes some sense at least as a question. If not, once again, I apologize.

PS I am aware that every situation, strain, and environment is differerent, and one grower's experience will differ from the next. Just looking for general trends here to determine a good starting point. Thanks!

 

[jungliedunglies]

House and Garden Aqua BTW.

 

[FreezerBoy]

First let me digress. There's no such thing as "PPM" or "TDS". All we have is EC. EC meters read and display EC; "TDS" and "PPM" measure EC and display nonsense by converting EC using nearly a dozen different scales. 500, 640, 650, 700, 728, 764 and 5-6 other "PPM" numbers all "equal" 1.0 EC. Point I'm making is NEVER try to match "PPM" or "TDS" numbers with someone else or a chart that has never met you or your grow.

We don't really care what the number says as much as how far it's moved. (Water is an insulator. It's the stuff in the water that conducts electricity. Nutes conduct. They are also acidic. As nutes increase, EC increases and acidity too. Because of the way the pH scale works, higher acidity means a lower pH number. Therefore, EC and pH move in opposite directions.) EC up, pH down is too rich. EC down, pH up is too lean. EC flat, pH flat looks good on paper but,guarantees unbalanced feeding as no one pH number allows absorption of all nutes. You want pH to swing between 5.5-6.0 (some go as low as 5.2)

Start feeding at 1/4 the rate your nutes suggest. Chart EC and pH daily. Once you see a pattern of movement adjust accordingly so the swing occurs on YOUR timetable in the direction you want.

Because your EC is as low as it is, I would be on the lookout for mag deficiencies. CalMag or Epsom Salts will provide extra Mg.

 

[Eazytoke]

With all of that being said if your meter only displays a PPM number take a look at the papers that came with it and find out what conversion it's using.

 

[Hammerhead]

Bluelab tri meter is 500ppm=1EC.

 

[GOT DANK]

do you really need this meter? and do need it for organic nutes?

 

[Hammerhead]

I think you do. I'm sure someone would disagree though Organic Nutrients will measure EC. It is possible to burn plants with Organics. I guess if you followed the direction to the tee you might not have a issue.

 

[forty]

With all of that being said if your meter only displays a PPM number take a look at the papers that came with it and find out what conversion it's using.

use ec and conversion won't matter.... or better yet, take a look at your plants, not papers, and make adjustments as necessary.

 

[Eazytoke]

use ec and conversion won't matter.... or better yet, take a look at your plants, not papers, and make adjustments as necessary.

My point was that some pens don't give you EC on the display. If he has such a pen I doubt he wants to just run out and buy a new one. Find out the conversion it uses, check PPM and covert to EC...

 

[Hammerhead]

I have never had a issue with a pen that only displayed PPM. It will work fine you do not need to convert.

 

[noreason]

We have no idea what that initial PPM of the tap water consists of. I guess what I'm asking, is when we say 400-500 PPM, are we talking 400-500 PPM of just nutes, or total soup. In other words, does the grower who starts with low PPM just get the added benefit of knowing that his 500 PPM consists almost entirely of nutes, while the high initial grower must accept that some is unknown.

In the tap water there is a part of Calcium and a part of magnesium.Others elements are very few and are not consider for their tiny quantity.

Often, fertilizers, are made for people that use tap water, so if you have a low EC tap water, you should use calcium and magnesium to add to the water the right quantity.

I don't use an RO filter, but I have a very low EC tap water (0,2mS\cm) and I definitely need to add Calcium in bigger part and a bit of magnesium too, along other fertilizers, otherwise I see plants get sick.

After time and time growing, I found that every plant want a certain type of nutes dosage, some want more N,some more Mg,some more Ca etc.... but overall with an EC of 1.1 - 1.5 I can grow everything without any deficiencies.Obviously it depends on several factors....how big the plant is, how many light in the room, how fast the metabolism is....

Hope it helps

 

[Eazytoke]

I have never had a issue with a pen that only displayed PPM. It will work fine you do not need to convert.

I didn't say there would be an issue or a problem with the pen. WTF. Do you know how many times I've read a thread with a guy asking for help and stating his PPM. And the next post someone asks what conversion. Seriously, there is no good reason NOT to know what your conversion on your pen is. Sometimes I just have to shake my head...

 

[jungliedunglies]

Hey guys, thanks....it's a .5 conversion meter. I do understand the conversion deal and what electrical conductivity means and how ppm and tds relate to it as approximations.

From an osmotic perspective, I guess it's not the most intelilgent of questions. The more I consider it, what I'm worried about in this specific initial case is "nute burn" of very young plants, which ostensibly occurs when the dissolved solute concentration is higher outside the plant than inside.

I might know whether the dissolved solutes came from a nute bottle or an unknown source, but the plant doesn't. Water is going to diffuse according to the rules of diffusion no matter what. So now I'm thinking that for me to think I might lower the EC because my source is more pure or raise it if it wasn't was pretty poorly though out. Ooops!

 

[offthehook]

double post.

 

[offthehook]

Tripple post, the internal server connection had some trouble.
Original post is on next page.

 

[jungliedunglies]

Are the clay chunks going to cause problems with my pump? Sorry, I had to.

 

[offthehook]

do you really need this meter? and do need it for organic nutes?

I successfully raise Indica seedlings straight from the start on Ec 5.0 organic soil all the way into maturity.
(No typo here, but do not even try to remotely do this with chemical ferts btw.)

If you stick to a good grade Earth Worm Castings as your main source of nutrients, then it will become real hard to "over dose".

But you need some minerals in it too and with those you most definatly CAN.

This does count for mineral holding stuffs like woodash for instance, and to a lesser extend bone meal.

Also be carefull if you need to add some magnesium holding Dolomite lime or Calmag, but I sure do recommend having some in it for sake of Mg content and Ph management.
Mollasses, vinasse extract, Biobizz "bio grow" e.g. Is a great way to support your microbial life, but is fairly rich in Nitrogine and shows up pretty high on my Ec reader.
Gotto be carefull with it too cuzz it will burn them to hell if you have no means to gauge it.

Add some 30% dried, brown, black, yellow, or red Clay chunks to your soil mix (not baked, not grey! and discard the dust!)
It will offer an enlarged surface to your microbial life that deals with the "cleanup" of your organic nutes and will add some minerals too.

Yups, that way you can do without it.



But you said : Organic NUTES, so I suppose you ment the stuff they happen to sell in bottles right?

Well, if you use stuff like BioBizz 'of what they say is supposed to be "organic", then you most definatly will run into big trouble if you plan on working without an ec meter as a noob, and only wish to rely on the instructons off the chart.
You most definatly got to know what you are doing but maybe it'd be better to open a new thread of yourselves on that topic.

 

[jungliedunglies]

Oh boy, trainwreck thread alert.

 

[offthehook]

Yeh you 're a fun guy I can tell

Flmao.

I assumed ofcourse that GOT DANK was growing on soil, Not taking into account that plenty of ppl try doing hydro with "organic" nutes a lot too.

Hell, damnit, well now it is there. Sorry for fucking up your thread. lol

 

[jungliedunglies]

Lol, nah man, just messin with ya. It was pretty clear who you were talking you...and there were certainly a few odd bends in the road before that last one.