Yellowing and dying leafs.

[bobman]

And to the people that keep bad repping me you still have not pointed out one thread where a major problem was caused by ph in soil, that was not caused by bad watering or root bound. I can show you many many threads that look like ph and everyone jumped on the ph bandwagon when it was just bad watering. why do you want a new grower to start with ph when there are easier and less expensive things to rule out first. this thread has nothing to do with ph.

 

[LunaShadow]

Looks like a combo of medium too wet and wind burn, not pH, although might be worth checking pH run-off water.

Like bobman said, make sure you get a proper wet/dry cycle and move the fan so it is not blowing on plant, point it so it is blowing between plant top and light

 

[bobman]

moisture stress on perlite,are you for real, you should not be giving advice. i grow in straight perlite now. that is residue from the water or from the soil. seriously the op said what his mix is. the only way he is going to experience problems is if he waters wrong. new growers and even experience growers with a new strain are not going to have perfect plants. this problem is not ph related in the first place everyone is just gasping at that staw again


ps. your are correct the op should cut the soil with more perlite. at least 30 percent but i would recommend 40-50 percent

 

[Stress_test]

I'm not gonna debate something so goofy as whether or not pH is relevant in soil. That's just a stupid thing to argue about, especially in the infirmary.

However... A perfect soil mix can get knocked out of balance and lose any ability to buffer if water/nutrients are poured thru it, if the water/nutrients aren't pH'ed in the proper range.

My assessment of the plants in those pictures, and from the info provided is that they are locked up.
The soil is likely too compacted to allow any aeration to happen and they have a soggy, muddy mass around the roots that's isn't ever drying. In this regard I agree with bobman, because if I am correct Then it won't matter what the OP dumps in the pots, it won't do any good until the roots can cycle from wet to dry properly.

In that same regard: If the OP were to test a sample of his soil for pH he could possibly adjust his nutrient solution up or down to compensate for the soils inability to buffer. Once there is nutrients and water available in the proper pH range, then the plants "might" begin uptaking again.

My recommendation would be to go get a bag of "good" soil and a pH pen or test kit, repot the plants and continue from this point possessing the ability to know what your plants are doing AND what they are needing.

 

[Ziggaro]

moisture stress on perlite,are you for real, you should not be giving advice. i grow in straight perlite now. that is residue from the water or from the soil. seriously the op said what his mix is. the only way he is going to experience problems is if he waters wrong. new growers and even experience growers with a new strain are not going to have perfect plants. this problem is not ph related in the first place everyone is just gasping at that staw again


ps. your are correct the op should cut the soil with more perlite. at least 30 percent but i would recommend 40-50 percent

yes if your perlite containing soil is over watered, the perlite will turn yellowish.

and please nobody should ever cut soil with perlite at those levels I would suggest some general seed starting mix instead

 

[bobman]

I'm not gonna debate something so goofy as whether or not pH is relevant in soil. That's just a stupid thing to argue about, especially in the infirmary.

However... A perfect soil mix can get knocked out of balance and lose any ability to buffer if water/nutrients are poured thru it, if the water/nutrients aren't pH'ed in the proper range.

My assessment of the plants in those pictures, and from the info provided is that they are locked up.
The soil is likely too compacted to allow any aeration to happen and they have a soggy, muddy mass around the roots that's isn't ever drying. In this regard I agree with bobman, because if I am correct Then it won't matter what the OP dumps in the pots, it won't do any good until the roots can cycle from wet to dry properly.

In that same regard: If the OP were to test a sample of his soil for pH he could possibly adjust his nutrient solution up or down to compensate for the soils inability to buffer. Once there is nutrients and water available in the proper pH range, then the plants "might" begin uptaking again.

My recommendation would be to go get a bag of "good" soil and a pH pen or test kit, repot the plants and continue from this point possessing the ability to know what your plants are doing AND what they are needing.

I know ph is a dumb thing to argue about here. the point is the medium usually gets out of whack because of bad watering techniques. once dry it will bounce back or once the roots grow into the container it will not matter. its really splitting hairs. the point I was making is that the op will probably end up spending way more money than needed. imagine if this was a med patient on a limited budget. chasing ph and trying to amend later can get pricey and confusing and is largely unneeded.

 

[bobman]

yes if your perlite containing soil is over watered, the perlite will turn yellowish.

and please nobody should ever cut soil with perlite at those levels I would suggest some general seed starting mix instead

how can you possible say nobody should cut at those levels. i grow and clone in only perlite . cutting a soil with 40-50 percent can only help a grower, it helps stabilize the mix. and perlite and over watering has nothing to do with color change.

 

[RetroGrow]

i disagree. there are much bigger problems facing new growers. telling every new grower to chase ph is much worse advice.

Checking and knowing your PH is standard operating procedure for any grow.
Why you would advise someone not to check their PH is beyond comprehension.
If you don't know your PH, you are flying blind.
Every new grower should get in the habit of checking PH, going in and coming out.

 

[bobman]

Man I grew for 8 years in soil and I had no idea what my ph going in or out was. I have grown in heavy amended, non amended, buffered and unbuffered soils and ph was never an issue. Just show me a thread in this entire infirmary like I asked before. Proper watering is a million times more important than checking your ph. I can show you 2 other threads from this weekend that everyone was about to have a new grower freaking out about ph when all they have to do is back off the watering and let the medium dry then resume what he was doing without saturating his soil. You guys do what you want but just look at a problem from every possible angle before going to the ph because that is not the problem here or any other thread I have seen the ph police come into.

 

[Ziggaro]

Don't confuse growing in straight perlite with mixing it in soil. Its all changes when you add the soil.

But I'm not here to teach you basic information about soil composition. I was just giving my opinion on the issues this man is having, which again look like burning symptoms from the strength of the soil. I didn't see a pH issue, but I didn't want this guy to think that it's not an important factor in a grow either.

 

[bobman]

Don't confuse growing in straight perlite with mixing it in soil. Its all changes when you add the soil.

But I'm not here to teach you basic information about soil composition. I was just giving my opinion on the issues this man is having, which again look like burning symptoms from the strength of the soil. I didn't see a pH issue, but I didn't want this guy to think that it's not an important factor in a grow either.

Please teach me basic info on soil composition I would love to hear it especially since your perlite views are so enlightening. At least answer me this why would you not want a new grower to cut his soil so heavy with perlite. it is inert and it helps drainage. so please teach me.

 

[legalizeDK]

you probably shouldn't be in the infirmary helping people if you don't understand how important ph is
nothing bothered me more when I was new than people telling me my obviously damaged plants were fine and not give any real advice.

if he was happy with his plant health he wouldnt bother posting now would he?

And if you're suggesting you can dump anything into soil without knowing ph you're wrong.



BTW OP next time cut that soil your plants will grow faster. you might want to start in smaller pots too
the yellow on perlite is moisture stress (too much)

come on.. PH is not that improtant in soil if your tap water is about or below 8 in ph. my first year of growing i checked ph. all it did was strees me out, haven´t checked it since. No need to

 

[bluenorth]

Haunt is a strong description man. why do you want to scare someone like that. i have yet to see one plant, in the infirmary, grown in soil where ph was the real cause of a major problem. Bad watering technique or root bound plants show symptoms that look like ph and ph may be the issue but its not because of whats put in but because the roots can not uptake water/food properly and things get out of whack. There is no reason to send a new grower chasing a ph problem when there are simpler variables to control first.

Hey bobman could you elaborate on good watering technique, or point me to a good resource. I've heard everything possible about watering and feeding, but I need to understand cause I think this is my problem. I'm not trying to jack the thread, the op is learning and should learn about this as well. If it's not his problem, he may encounter it eventually. thanks

 

[bobman]

Well first off I would amend the soil 40-50 percent with perlite. It is inert and keeps the mix airy and stable. I guess the main problem people have is putting a plant with a small root system into a container too big. Its more about the wet dry cycle. you can give the plant a good dose but you should wait longer until you give it more. or you can give a plant less and do it again sooner. For a new grower I would do a combination. its really dependent on a few factors but just try to give enough water so those first inches get damp. then go as long as you can. once you feel a plant is established let it wilt once or twice so you know what dry really means.

If I put a freshly rooted clone into a 16 oz party cup and gave a thorough watering. If I remember correctly I would go 10-14 days until I watered again. It is kind of like the Seinfield episode when jerry goes to buy a new car and Kramer test drives another car. He and the salesman keep pushing the car to see how long they can go until they run out of gas. Kind of think of watering like that how long can you go.

 

[Nickeo]

Evening folks, i have now taken the following steps.

Moved the fan away.
Just to be sure i also moved the lights a little bit further away from the plants.
Incase of the soil being to hot i gave it a good watering now, maybe it will flush some of the exess nutrients away?
I will now also wait a little bit longer before watering it the next time, let it dry out a little bit more than i usually do.

Will test the ph for fun once i get my thingies i ordered.

One of the plants is really starting to act up, and leafs are yellowing for each day, i will be going away for 2 days and will see if these steps will have made any progress once i get back, will update with new pics when i get home.
I also might have a theory of my own but i will wait with that until i get back, need to read up some more

Thanks for all the help so far and see you all when i get back!

ps, my plan was to start the flowering tomorow before i go away, but maybe its better to wait until this problem has been resolved, and keep it in vegg?

 

[Ziggaro]

you can find out everything you need to know about perlite on about.com
mandala has some good info too you can find his sticky on his forums

no need to waste more space in this mans thread.

you wanna discuss? start a thread and send me a link

 

[RetroGrow]

Man I grew for 8 years in soil and I had no idea what my ph going in or out was. I have grown in heavy amended, non amended, buffered and unbuffered soils and ph was never an issue. Just show me a thread in this entire infirmary like I asked before. Proper watering is a million times more important than checking your ph. I can show you 2 other threads from this weekend that everyone was about to have a new grower freaking out about ph when all they have to do is back off the watering and let the medium dry then resume what he was doing without saturating his soil. You guys do what you want but just look at a problem from every possible angle before going to the ph because that is not the problem here or any other thread I have seen the ph police come into.

The fact is, you don't know if PH is part of the problem if you don't check it.
You don't know the PH of his water, so how can you know if it is a problem or not?
My tap water is 8.9.
If you think that would not be a problem, think again.
If I didn't check my PH, I wouldn't know that my water was "bad".
If you're lucky enough to have good water, then PH might not be a problem for you, but everybody doesn't have good water.
My tap water, with PH 8.9 will mess up your plants.
Not saying other factors not involved, but to have a clear picture of what's going on, PH is necessary.

 

[bobman]

man my waters shitty too probably worse than yours. Find me a thread ph police

 

[Stress_test]

Well first off I would amend the soil 40-50 percent with perlite. It is inert and keeps the mix airy and stable. I guess the main problem people have is putting a plant with a small root system into a container too big. Its more about the wet dry cycle. you can give the plant a good dose but you should wait longer until you give it more. or you can give a plant less and do it again sooner. For a new grower I would do a combination. its really dependent on a few factors but just try to give enough water so those first inches get damp. then go as long as you can. once you feel a plant is established let it wilt once or twice so you know what dry really means.

If I put a freshly rooted clone into a 16 oz party cup and gave a thorough watering. If I remember correctly I would go 10-14 days until I watered again. It is kind of like the Seinfield episode when jerry goes to buy a new car and Kramer test drives another car. He and the salesman keep pushing the car to see how long they can go until they run out of gas. Kind of think of watering like that how long can you go.

There are several issues with the plan as outlined:

A 20oz. beer cup should want water every other day, any longer is plain ignorance. The faster a plants roots can cycle water and nutrients, the healthier the plant will be. Two weeks setting in a soggy stale clump of soil isn't gonna do anything good for a plant.
Fuck, I'm running 6" pots in a stadium and 95% of em need watered daily. If I were to water them so heavily that they don't need water for a week it would kill em.

Hey bobman could you elaborate on good watering technique, or point me to a good resource. I've heard everything possible about watering and feeding, but I need to understand cause I think this is my problem. I'm not trying to jack the thread, the op is learning and should learn about this as well. If it's not his problem, he may encounter it eventually. thanks

I really do get asked this question every day. Here is the advice that I always give...

I get asked this almost every day by patients.

Usually I suggest bottled spring water for seedlings. It isn't distilled, but is filtered and doesn't have any chlorine in it but does still contain some trace minerals.

The best method I have found that is fast, easy, and accurate, is to use a measuring cup and water in 2 stages, by weight. First weigh a pot filled with dried soil. I usually suggest that they fill an extra pot, water it and allow it to dry. This will give you a comparison to judge the weight by.

Next, water in 2 stages: First is just a fast "wetting" of the soil: Using fresh, pH'ed water; pour 1/4 of the pots volume in and move on to the next, most of the initial water will flow through and out the bottom. But it will wet the soil and help wash any accumulated salts and soak the soil in the bottom of the pot enough that it will hold water.

Once all the plants are watered, wait 5 minutes and start again at the first pot: Using your nutrient solution; pour in 1/4 the pots volume and you are done.

From experience I know that a 6" pot will weigh just under 2.5 lbs. I usually suggest filling them to a dry weight of 2.25 lbs and water when the weight is below 2.5#.
A pint is a pound... So 1 pint of water weighs 1 pound. And .25 pints/pounds is 4 ounces. If you water @ 2.5# then the pot still contains approx 4oz of water, watering above 2.25 and below 2.5# is ideal because the soil will still be slightly moist but not dry enough to harm the roots.

This technique allows the soil to dry quickly and while it does require more frequent feeding/watering, the faster cycle promotes healthier roots and plants, and allows you to supply the plant with more water and nutrients than the conventional alternate watering/feeding because you can feed every watering cycle, it also eliminates any necessity to flush until the plants are ready to finish. It also nearly eliminates the possibility of over-watering and it reduces nutrient waste from over feeding and flushing to 0%...

@--> I've never used that soil before so I can't advise about it. But I generally recommend planning on transplanting into larger pot a couple days just before flipping 12/12.
The reason I suggest this is because so many people are using pre-fortified soils. Most if not all of the pre-added nutrients should be used up about the time they begin flowering which is also about the time you will be changing the nutrients.

Then if you have planned on transplanting already you can re-pot into unfortified, neutral soil for the finish run and not have the premixed nutrients causing issues and fluctuations.

 

[bobman]

Stress you have been in 2 other threads agreeing with me on watering. when a plant is young it does not need water every other day. to say that is plain ignorance. when a plants roots grow into a container maybe you can water away but until then no. a new grower needs to learn what dry really means and the best way is to let them dry out. If you put a fresh rooted clone into a one gallon container give 6oz of water then none for a week I guarantee it will make a week and then some. Most people do not have scales that weigh in half pounds.

And just for the record please say that young plants need watering every 2 days. I really want you to confirm that after about 5 threads this past week in which over watering was the issue.