companion planting

[h.h.]

me:

There has been research, I remember reading, suggesting the advantages of a shared root system in growing mj. I won't cite it because I don't remember where it came from. I think I first read it here.
From trying it in various ways, I feel there is some fact to the research. It makes a good companion to itself. Otherwise it likes it's space.
In nature, you see patches of monoculture. When there is close companionship among species, such as in a pot, it's 1 plant dominating the other. A host and a predator.

rrog

Surfer shares his soil with multiple MJ. I had a thread a while back and most guys were strongly opposed to sharing the soil with more than 1 MJ.

Just an opinion, but when in doubt diversity seems like the way to go. Seems that's the way it is when looking at other aspects of growing

Surfer seems to do pretty well if I recall.
The rule of diversity must have some diversity within itself.
What better plant is there to support microlife, that has a symbiotic relationship to mj, than mj?
Our soil is mixed and supported by teas. We're not mining for nutrients with a diversity of different root systems. We have diversity in our soil to begin with. All we can do is recycle or take away from what is there. With the exception of nitrogen fixers, legumes, everything else is primarily nonbeneficial competition, especially in a pot situation. Legumes are best cut and chopped and used in rotation. Often they call for inoculates themselves.
Deterring pests is another reasoning behind using certain plants, though it is better when they are kept to the perimeter and in separate pots where they don't compete.
These have minimal footspace, around a square foot each, Trunks bigger than my wrist.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Oh! Subscribed. I've never done it with any plants, really, never had the chance until we bought this place. So I am here to LEARN.

Thanks!

 

[h.h.]

I appreciate the enthusiasm, however the "Living Mulch" thread is doing a good job of that now. My only ambition here is to bring any debate I may have with the thread elsewhere as not to dilute nor distort it. What I express here is merely my own opinions based on what I have done or seen with no scientific basis behind it. I.O.W. I'm full of myself, so keep that in mind.

Welcome to the camp, I guess you all know why we're here...

 

[CannabisFox]

Ive read somewhere that plants do better when living with (direct) relatives.

 

[MrFista]

Plants have self/non self recognition and cannabis is no exception. They will battle it out with each other unless they are clones.

Companion planting is not about competition it is about mutualism. There are plenty of plants that compete with each other (dominate canopy, dominate roots, exude chemicals, host ants that kick your ass, etc) and these are not what you'd term companions.

Companions provide services to each other. Some services can be transferred with plants only in close proximity, but having them in the same bed is all good if they are compatible.

Companions... provide pollinators, provide beneficial insects, mine soil profiles different to the 'host', fix nitrogen, provide ground cover and protection, host mycorrhizae, trade carbon etc.

What the correct companions for MJ are I have no real idea. The concept is sound. Science (in particular ecology) has found a direct positive correlation between biodiversity and productivity. So put your thinking hats on there's definately something in it.

 

[C21H30O2]

companion plants for cannabis: dill, garlic, maybe clover.

 

[Microbeman]

Certain cultivars set up a monoculture environment through allelopathy, whereby root exudates encourage the growth of common ancestry while discouraging others. Many annuals, bi-annuals & perennials appear to thrive in this fashion (eg. patches of nettles, mullien, wormwood, etc.). I'm not sure cannabis/hemp fits into this category having always planted it in patches, except for surrounding undergrowth like pineapple weed (poor man's chamomile) and clover. Outside I have observed it to do better with red clover.

On the subject of rootsystems occupying the soil, to keep the microbial loop rolling along, some growers I know do not weed for this reason and I believe Mr Fista has addressed this previously (to always have something growing to preserve the life of the soil). For companion growing, besides the aspect of nutrient exchange (eg. legumes) as others have mentioned, it is good to do a little study to see whether the companion plant is symbiotic with the same species of endomycorrhizal (eg. Glomus Intraradices & Glomus Mosseae; others?) as I believe Mad has previously addressed. Bear in mind that the mustard family is destructive to endomycorrhizal (via allelopathy) but I doubt anyone would purposefully plant any.

 

[h.h.]

Planting more marijuana brings forth many of the qualities we seek with the benefit of more marijuana.
Given an ample planting with light and space permitting, and if needed, other companions may have their place. It's useful to have a perimeter planting attracting predator insects as well as to deter animals. Not necessarily companions. A little further spaced. Inside a few marigolds in their own small pots may do the trick. No need for competition. We're not raising marigolds. Outside, cover crops can be grown off season. Pots can be rotated outside and covers planted.
Given the limitations placed upon us by LEO, it's best to keep an eye on the prize.
Now if we were talking tomato and basil...

 

[SeaMaiden]

Which, in my world we certainly could be, because while I smoke all day long, I also need to eat. I apply much of what I learn growing cannabis to other plants, and vice versa.

The only vegetable allelopaths I'm familiar with at all are oaks (we have a lot of black oak here) and walnut. The allelopathy I'm most familiar with involves benthic invertebrates, mostly Sarcophyton spp.

I recently read a blurb about the thing with marigolds being used as companion plants and how the marigolds of today not being the same of yesteryear, but damn if I can remember where I read it. Was it the Eliot Coleman book....?

 

[Bullfrog44]

I would try growing hops along with my cannabis.

 

[mad librettist]

hh, have you tried indoor polyculture, or are you speaking from ignorance?

The idea of competition is a red herring. We are busy determining which species are suitable to growing with cannabis, and as of yet no one has reported diminished yield or vigor.

The indoor environment's chief limitations are space and light. In a horizontal grow with no supplemental lighting, the secondary plants in a container die off as they lose access to light. In order to compete with your cannabis, barring allelopathy, a plant needs to outgrow it and claim its share of the light. As fukuoka was able to show, competition happens when the contest is too close to call. Weeds that sprout a week before you sow your fields are going to compete with and outgrow your crops, whereas weeds left to grow once your crops are well established stay in the background. Reading Cocannouer, one learns that these weeds can actually be helpful. It's all about managing relationships, not creating exclusivity.

Not only is competition a non-issue, expecting competition is expecting the wrong problem. So far, at least with horizontal lighting, the problem is keeping secondary plants alive through the cannabis flowering period.

And speaking of law enforcement, a polyculture garden is more secure, because the cannabis can be cut away and removed, leaving behind a legal grow of clover, yarrow, chamomile, purslane, etc...


I wonder if red herring makes a good fertilizer. Plenty of it around here.

 

[SeaMaiden]

It makes great soup. However, I don't think the concept of allelopathy is a red herring, is it? Might it be more like, oh, say... slippery dick?

 

[mad librettist]

It makes great soup. However, I don't think the concept of allelopathy is a red herring, is it? Might it be more like, oh, say... slippery dick?

I said barring allelopathy. Allelopathy is not a red herring, it's one of the things addressed when choosing companions. Claiming we have not accounted for, and are not continuing to explore allelopathy as one of the criteria for avoiding certain companions is just plain false (but not a red herring).

I love the way mugwort improves soil, but it is strongly allelopathic. Therefore is stays out of my pots.

White clover, on the other hand, is capable of sustaining a network of mycorrhizae that associate with cannabis. Theoretically, that means you could keep the same fungus alive, and just plug in your new cannabis plant. I have no research on endomycorrhizal species, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that certain ectomycorrhizal species can and do colonize more than one tree at a time, resulting in, say, a really big flush of chanterelles spanning 2 or more root systems (oak usually).


There is a whole thread to look over (living mulch sticky) that involves much of the thought process supposedly absent if one takes this thread at face value.

 

[jaykush]

The only vegetable allelopaths I'm familiar with at all are oaks (we have a lot of black oak here) and walnut. The allelopathy I'm most familiar with involves benthic invertebrates, mostly Sarcophyton spp.

ive never known oaks to be allelopathic, i love planting under them actually. they help keep the understory plants watered in drought.

black wanlut has the chemical juglone in it

 

[mad librettist]

ive never known oaks to be allelopathic, i love planting under them actually. they help keep the understory plants watered in drought.

black wanlut has the chemical juglone in it

when out mushroom hunting, you can tell a lot about an oak based on what grows around it. An oak surrounded by ivy or annuals is not going to produce fruiting bodies from mycorrhizal association. When I look at an oak tree as I approach, and I see the soil around it is free of leaf litter, covered in castings, and hosting lots of leafy plants, I know any fungus I find will likely be saprophytic or parasitic. I told this to an experienced forager, and by the end of our outing he said I was on to something.

I think what's going on is that the fungal partner is acidifying the soil and keeping nutrients away from annuals and such, because moss hates nutrients and loves acidic soil.

I would not consider that to be allelopathy though.

FWIW I have also found plenty of black walnut with plants growing around them.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I've read so much about not planting under oaks, in part due to allelopathy (I see it exhibited with our black oak, the only perennials that grow near it are *right* at the canopy edge, and it's not a thick canopy) and in part due to the oaks needing to not have extra water, that I assumed that it's a general 'thing.' Perhaps it's only specific oaks.

Yes, it would appear that is the case. A Survey of Allelopathic and Other Chemical Reactions of Oaks (Quercus spp).

ABSTRACT
Oak trees (Quercus sp.) have been proposed to express allelopathy on other plant and herbivore
species. Different species of oaks, various parts of the trees, litter, soil under the trees, leachates,
and chemicals extracted from the trees and soil have been tested on other tree species, local
herbaceous plants and grasses, crops, and insect herbivores. An allelopathic effect from the oaks
has been repeatedly demonstrated, although it seems to be species specific with reference to the
oak and the "receptor" species in question, and is sometimes temporally dependent. In some
cases, positive or no effects were observed and allelopathic effects were confounded by other
interactions from biotic and abiotic factors. This paper will examine research on possible
allelopathic and other chemical effects of oaks in natural systems, laboratory analyses including
bioassays and chemical constituents, and the effects exerted by other species on oak
establishment and development. Additional research is needed to understand the exact role of
oak allelochemicals in natural systems, the mechanisms controlling production and release of
allelochemicals, and the separation of allelopathy from other ecological processes such as
competition. Practical applications include future use of allelochemical research in agricultural
and soil science, weed and pest management, and plant growth regulation.

INTRODUCTION
Oak trees (Quercus sp.), significant species in deciduous and mixed forests, have been proposed
to express allelopathy towards other plant and herbivore species. By utilizing different species
of oaks, various parts of the tree, and chemicals isolated from extractions of the trees and soil,
researchers have tested the biochemical influence of Quercus sp. on other trees, woodland plants,
crops, and insect herbivores. An allelopathic effect from the oaks has been repeatedly
demonstrated, although it seems to be species specific with reference to the oak and the
"receptor" species in question. In some cases, positive or no effects were observed, and a few
instances of chemical defense by different species towards the oak will be mentioned. This
paper will examine research on possible allelopathic and other chemical effects of oaks in natural
systems, laboratory analyses including bioassays and chemical constituents, and the chemical
effects exerted by other species on oak establishment and development.

 

[jaykush]

yea black walnut has loads of plants that can grow with it, but it still has allelopathic effects to quite a bit. the chemical juglone is well known.

 

[mad librettist]

or anyone researching, look for a paper on a weed called sea rocket. Scientists confirmed that sea rocket will behave one way with relatives, and another way with more distantly related plants. It does this via sending out roots to choke off water and nutrient supplies.

The coolest part was how sea rocket knows who is growing next door. I assumed the roots would sniff out other roots via the soil solution, but it's just not the case. Sea rocket knows who is growing next door based on the way leaves of nearby plants reflect light! How cool is that?

 

[SeaMaiden]

What if the plants are *all* sending each other chemical signals through the air, too? I can't remember if it was a Nova or Nature show where I saw a bit about... I think it was African acacias that were killing off some kind of antelope. Research showed that these acacia had brought up levels of tannin or some sort of chemical, and to make a long story badly retold short, it was discovered that the trees were signaling each other chemically, through the AIR.

Arboreal black ops...?

 

[WelderDan]

The Native Americans encountered by the Pilgrims practiced companion planting, and shared their method with the Pilgrims. It was called "the three sisters". They would plant corn, beans and squash together. Corn, being a tall plant was perfect as a natural trellis for beans, which would climb the corn plant. The squash would be planted around the base of the corn and beans. It stays low and its ground cover helps to smother weeds and retain moisture.

This made a lot of sense. Corn is a Nitrogen loving plant. Beans put N back into the soil when the plant dies. Squash helped with moisture retention and weed control.

Pretty smart practice if you ask me.