CNS17 vs Dyna Gro

[dizzlekush]

Some of the things that made me shy away from 'plant specific' nutrients were incomplete nutrient formulas that made me buy multiple products to get a happy plant (2 part and 3 part nutrients and bloom boosters), incomplete micro nutrients, undesirable NPK ratios for Cannabis, high prices, and inconsistency in products on a batch to batch basis. The idea behind the making of this thread is to find all of the 'Complete One-Part Nutrients' and find out their effectiveness at growing quality medical cannabis. When i mean 'Complete' i mean that the product contains all 6 macro nutrients and at least Iron, Copper, Manganese, Zinc, Boron, Molybdenum, Cobalt and Nickel; Chlorine and Sodium i find unnecessary to be provided in nutrient solution since salt is NaCl, and Silicon and Selenium are non mandatory due to controversy over plant necessity. The nutrient lines that i am aware of that fit under this particular definition of complete are:

CNS17 One-Part Nutrients:
Hydro Grow: (3-2-4)
Hydro Bloom (2-2-5)
Coco/Soil Grow (3-1-2)
Coco/Soil Bloom (2-2-3)
Ripe (1-5-4)
http://www.americanagritech.com/fertilizers/cns17
{Apparently CNS17 Hydro Grow and Bloom are actually nutrients from a New Zealand company named Suntec [originals called Matrix Blue and Red] that Botanicare re-labeled, marked-up, and sells to American Marijuana growers, as opposed to the New Zealand Tomato growers the nutrients were designed for. see attachments below to see ingredient list for both products, provided by American Agritech, which shows that both products are made of IDENTICAL components}

Dyna-Gro One-Part Nutrients:
Grow (7-9-5)
Bloom (3-12-6)
Foliage-Pro (9-3-6)
All-Pro (7-7-7)
Hi-N-Pro (15-5-5)
http://www.dyna-gro.com/
{Foliage-Pro has the best NPK ratio for vegetative growth out of Dyna-Gro's choices, however in my opinion Foliage-Pro, All-Pro, and Hi-N-Pro ALL have better NPK ratio's that Grow for vegetative growth for marijuana specifically. Hi-N-Pro is the single most concentrated liquid product on the market}

Hesi One-Part Nutrients:
Hydro Grow (12-4-8)
Hydro Bloom (8-7-10)
Soil/Coco TNT (6-2-4)
Soil Bloom (4-3-5)
Coco Bloom (8-6-10)
http://www.hesistore.com/acatalog/Hesi_nutrients.html
(Hesi seems to really like the 3-1-2 NPK ratio for vegetation and 4-3-5 NPK ratio for flowering, both their growth nutrients are a 3-1-2 ratio while all 3 of their bloom nutrients are essentially a 4-3-5 ratio. Hesi might be missing Ni, making it an Honorable Mention)

Ionic One-Part Nutrients:
Hydro [hardwater optional] Grow (3-1-5)
Hydro [hardwater optional] Bloom (3-2-6)
Coco/Soil Grow (2-1-2)
Coco/Soil Bloom (1-1-3)
http://www.growthtechnology.com/ionic.asp

Maxi Powders:
MaxiGrow (10-5-14)
MaxiBloom (5-15-14)
http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/maxiseries.html

Honorable Mentions (Incomplete):
FloraNova/GHE One-Part
http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/floranova.html
http://gb.eurohydro.com/one_part.html
Jacks Classic/Professional
http://www.jrpeters.com/Home.html
Plantex
http://www.plantexsolutions.com/index85eb.html?id=603

State Mandated Product Testing:
Washington State: http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/Product1.aspx
California: http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/
Oregon: http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/search.lasso
(Washington has the best testing, Oregon's a joke, California is so-so)
You will find that both Hesi and Ionic are missing from all states testing, so no verification for us.

If you think you know of another one part nutrient that falls under my definition of complete, please feel free to mention the nutrient(s) so we can possibly broaden our choices.

I'm basically looking for anybody who is running any of these nutrient lines. I want to hear what you thought of these products and how they compared to any other nutrients you've used. Something of interest i noticed is that Dyna-Gro, Hesi, and CNS17 all have Grow base nutrients with a 3-1-2 NPK ratio ( CNS17 Coco Grow 3-1-2, Hesi TNT 6-2-4, Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro 9-3-6, and Hesi Hydro Grow 12-4-8) along with 3-1-2 being the suggested vegetative growth ratio from 'The Fatman'. So maybe there's something to this 3-1-2 label NPK ratio for marijuana.

Its a wish of mine to test these nutrient lines against each other with no use of Bloom "Boosters", just Potassium Silicate, Fulvic Acid, cold processed seaweed extract and my PGR regimen. My garden is a test site, and its already booked for a few experiments. Once i have those completed hopefully i can test CNS17 vs Dyna-Gro (only ones available in my area), and i might test the winner against Hesi (if i decide to ship it in), or Jacks Professional. Jacks is incomplete but the price is unbeatable, makes all liquid fertilizers and Maxi look like a scam.

 

[loyalty7]

does maxibloom, and floranova fit your profile?

 

[dizzlekush]

'Jacks Professional' Candidates for Marijuana Use

'Jacks Professional' Candidates for Marijuana Use

JR Peters Inc, more specifically Jacks Professional, is probably my favorite synthetic nutrient company and its for one very simple reason, Price. Nothing beats the price of Jacks Professional and quality is like it says, professional grade. They are a powder-only company that has over 60 different mixes, none custom made for marijuana, but many are just as good as 'plant specific' nutrients. Below is a list of products in the Jacks Professional line that have potential use for marijuana growing.


(N-P-K) [Ratio Simplified] {% Nitrogen in Nitrate form}

Jacks Pro Hydroponic (5-12-26) [1-2.5-5] {100%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...ydroponic.html
{to be used in conjunction with Calcium Nitrate a.k.a. Calcinit}

Jacks Pro Blossom Booster (10-30-20) [1-3-2] {50%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...m-Booster.html
{more Mg than Jacks Classic Blossom Booster}

Jacks Pro Tropical Foliage (24-8-16) [3-1-2] {35%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...l-Foliage.html

Jacks Pro Peat-Lite (15-11-29) [3-2-6] {72%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...Peat-Lite.html

Jacks Pro Pot Mum Finisher (15-10-30) [3-2-6] {53%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...-Finisher.html

Jacks Pro Orchid RO-Type Water (12-3-15) [4-1-5] {97%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...ype-Water.html

Jacks Pro Orchid Well Water (16-4-20) [4-1-5] {76%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...ell-Water.html

Jacks Special Finisher (17-5-26) [3.5-1-5] {60%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...-Finisher.html

Jacks Pro Low Acid Peat-Lite (17-5-24) [3.5-1-5] {69%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...Peat-Lite.html

Jacks Poinsettia FEed + Mg (17-5-19) [3.5-1-4] {63%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...-FeED--Mg.html

Jacks Poinsettia FEed + CaMg (15-4-15) [3.5-1-3.5] {81%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...ED--Ca-Mg.html

Jacks Pure Water LX (17-4-17) [4-1-4] {78%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...-Water-LX.html

Jacks Hydro Herb FEed (16-4-17) [4-1-4] {76%}*
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...Herb-FeED.html
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...Herb-FeED.html
{there seems to be some discrepancies about the contents of this product}

Jacks All Purpose LX (21-5-20) [4-1-4] {62%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...urpose-LX.html

Jacks Mum FEed (22-5-16) [4.5-1-3] {57%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac.../Mum-FeED.html

Jacks Pro High Performance (25-5-15) [5-1-3] {57%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...rformance.html

Jacks Pro General Purpose (20-10-20) [2-1-2] {60%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...l-Purpose.html

Jacks Pro Poinsettia Finisher (15-20-25) [3-4-5] {63%}
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jac...-Finisher.html

*Personal Favorites

Two things to keep in mind: Some of Jacks mix's can have large amounts of Nitrogen in the form of Urea or Ammoniacal Nitrogen, where Marijuana tends to like most Nitrogen in the form of Nitrate Nitrogen, and most of Jacks products are formulated for soil application so some products can have insufficient amounts of secondary nutrients (Ca, Mg, S) so some Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate) or Cal-Mag might be necessary for a better nutrient profile.

PPM Nutrient Calculator
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm

 

[TheBioMaster]

I have yet to find anything that beats using just the Dyna-gro bloom formula and some Cal/mag and Protek.....best combo in the world and has beat out H&G, AN, GH, Botanicare, Heavy 16, and a couple others that we tested against Dyna-gro Bloom formula.....this bloom formula with cal/mag and Protek can be used from start to finish also.....

One common myth is that these fast growing plants need 2 separate feeding formula's (grow & Bloom) which is crazy!

Peace!

 

[one Q]

the only reason I dont use Dyna is because every bottle ive gotten has had huge crystals in the bottom. But I do believe that if I had one with out solids I'd be very happy with them.

 

[dizzlekush]

@one Q the quart sized Liquid Bloom from Dyna are infamous for having chunks at the bottom. was that the product you bought that had chunks, or was it something else?

@TheBioMaster thanks for sharing your experiences with Dyna. this is exactly what im looking for. ive run AN, Humboldnt Nutrients, and Cutting Edge Solutions. Dyna beats them all hands down. interesting that Dyna beat Heavy 16, i would have put Heavy 16 under the complete list with all the micro nutrients they add but they split it into a 2-part and made it very expensive

 

[TheBioMaster]

Heavy 16 would probably come in 2nd I think from all Ive tried.....I was totally amazed and surprised that Dyna beat them all out.....another good nutrient that is new is called Blue Planet Nutrients that is great stuff and very inexpensive...they make a 2 part and a 3 part that both work amazingly well. They also make a 7 part organic line but have not tried that one yet....

FYI- Dyna is aware of the problem with crystals forming and are working on a solution.

 

[one Q]

yes. Liquid bottles of bloom

 

[loyalty7]

sounds interesting, gonna have to give it a shot, dyna grow bloom, only, at what rate...

 

[TheBioMaster]

You can start clones after they root at 1ml to 2ml per gallon bloom in RO water for the first 7 to 10 days, then bump them to 2ml bloom per gallon and start adding 1ml cal/mag and 1ml to 2ml Protek, then work your way up to 4ml to 6ml per gallon bloom and 2ml to 5ml cal/mag and 2ml to 5ml Protek. Add 1ml to 3ml H202 29% once a week. This formula will grow some KILLER ass roots!

If you want to get fancy, foliar spray once a week with Nitrozyme at 5 to 10ml per quart/liter in veg cycle. Protek makes an awesome foliar spray as well but watch the dosage.....

The nutrient profile (ratio's) this creates is awesome for these type plants! This is like a fail safe formula I have yet to see ANY strain not LOVE! Easy and cheap and way more on target than the "Lucas" formula as the Dynagro formula beat out Lucas as well.

You can keep that schedule all the way to around 2nd week of flower......you want to top out somewhere between 800PPM and 1000PM depending on strain. A good rule of thumb is EC 1.2 max levels.

 

[loyalty7]

thank you, very informative, will try...

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

I used it for a cycle. I couldn't come up with the profile I wanted so I'm going for Jacks hydro, cano3, and potassium sulfate next round. If I remember correctly Dyna lacked calcium so when I punched in the numbers with some calmag it ended up pushing the nitrogen much too high. Also, if I was looking to cut back on N later in flowering Dyna wouldn't let me do that without throwing off other crucial nutrients. It's good stuff, but doesn't suit my needs. Also, way too much P for what cannabis needs. It's big with orchids and fits those growers needs perfectly. Not cannabis imo. That being said, you can still grow good plants with it. All opinions here and I'm still working out my exact numbers with the Jacks.

 

[dizzlekush]

@Guywithoutajeep i agree. i use the Dyna Gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 and supplement with Jacks Hydro 5-12-26 in bloom to make it a little more bloom friendly and then switch the foliage pro to Dyna Gro Bloom (still using jacks) about 4 weeks into flower to cut the N and boost the P when its needed. that makes it lacking in Ca but since my water's hard i only occasionally add Cal Mag which then gives me tons of Mg.

i just wish Jacks had Cobalt and Nickel otherwise id switch over to them 100%. also at least a little bit of NH4 would be nice.

why the potassium sulfate?

 

[BettaBudda]

I use RO water in Coco and just switched to Dyna Gro from GH 6/9.

Ive only been growing for a year, so Im largely winging it trying to correct various issues.
I havent been able to find too many examples of people using DG (especially in Coco).

I (and others) find that bloom alone doesnt have enough N during the first few weeks of flower, so I mix some grow in to compensate.

I also strongly encourage the use of Protekt when using the DG line because that seems to be where all the PH stability comes from (I also find the stems to be much thicker/stronger with it).

Im currently using the following

Veg:
4 ml protekt
4 ml calmag
4 ml grow

Flower:
week 1
5 ml Protekt
4 ml Calmag
1.5 ml Grow
3.5 ml Bloom

ec 1.2

Week 2
5 ml Protekt
4 ml Calmag
1.5 ml Grow
4 ml Bloom
1 ml Magpro

ec 1.4 ph

Week 3 (Tonight)
Im increasing the magpro slightly to try and correct some light yellowing Im seeing on the lower leaves as well as upping the EC slightly

5 ml protekt
4 ml calmag
1 ml Grow
6 ml Bloom
1.5 Magpro

EC 1.4

Theres another thread going on in the Coco forum about Dyna gro as well.

 

[TheBioMaster]

The extra nitrogen you may or may not need comes from the Cal/mag you add. Have yet to see a strain that needed more nitrogen than that could provide to the nutrient profile, you could possibly be misreading your plants maybe.....just a thought

Dynagro bloom formula has the most concentrated P and K out of any other on the market.

I should have also mentioned but didnt which was my mistake that all these formulas mentioned is based on using a under current system....the UC seems to take a lot LESS of everything in general......that could account for getting different results as well.

The Protek is very important to PH stability but is important to have during the entire plants life cycle and is most over looked in a lot of cases IMHO.....

Peace!

 

[BudZad7]

Dyna grow/bloom

Dyna grow/bloom

Hey all !! Cool info...Tried these products outside first, to see the results... so far so good...Use Dyna bloom + Protek + MOAB + Carboload powder when flowers are blooming all this in tap water outside.... PH 6.3 also use Floranova grow + protek + Carboload powder outside PH 6.3 during veg....

Thanks for the info "TheBioMaster" Now Calmag+ will be added, also you should try some Carboload powder......

Just mixed a 1/2 gal RO water + Dyna bloom=1/4 tsp + Protek was added as a PH up, until 6.3 + Calmag+=1/2 tsp,and Carboload powder 1/8 tsp, EC1.2/PH6.3 for soil......Will try this on a test plant, and see the results.....A NYCD in 2nd week of bloom

 

[dizzlekush]

@BudZad7 MOAB is pointless when using Dyna Gro Liquid Bloom. 0-5-3 ratio and a 1-4-2 ratio don't really add up to anywhere near an optimal profile. maybe a booster with a 1:2 P:K ratio such as Hammerhead if you need to add a bloom booster.

 

[BettaBudda]

The extra nitrogen you may or may not need comes from the Cal/mag you add. Have yet to see a strain that needed more nitrogen than that could provide to the nutrient profile, you could possibly be misreading your plants maybe.....just a thought

Im sure it was N def.
I actually tried only bloom (+ calmag because Im in coco with RO) for the first ~5 days of flower despite advice I had read to mix some grow for the first few weeks (I often have "That wont happen to me syndrome"). I came back from out of town and found that they had lightened fairly dramatically (1 Sour Cream, 2 CheeseQuake). I didnt think there was any way they would make it through the entire cycle.
The day after I mixed in a bit of grow they looked much better in color.

I was noticing tonight that they are now a little greener than I would like so I am going to reduce the grow in the mix tonight, probably removing it entirely next week.

 

[netprophet]

Why the stress over Nickel and Cobalt? I used Ionic some 10+ years back and had decent results in tap.

 

[dizzlekush]

@netprophet both cobalt and nickel are essential elements. it seems dumb IMO to not provide your plant with all the "essentials", especially when you dont provide your plant with all the essentials and buy a dozen different useless additives to try to make up for slow growth. the only point of this thread is to see what options there are for providing all essentials in one product and how the options compare to each other.