Does stress cause hermies?????

[dagnabit]

Busting "grow lore"?
Hard mode for the win!!!!


If your plant has genetic tendencies to herm it can happen after a few generations of perfectly fine grows.

It happens as a response to stimuli.

Add CS or GB you get herm expression.
Manipulate light cycles correctly you get herm expression.
If your strain is sexually stable you are much less likely to see herm expression.
All cannabis has the ability to produce opposite sex flowers as a survival mechanism

 

[Sam the Caveman]

I read an email reply someone posted from dutchmasters in regards to their product called "reverse", which is supposed to reverse hermi's to solid females.

they said that when a plant is put into bloom, both male and female hormones are competing for their expression. They said that "reverse" is basically a synthetic form of the female hormone, that, upon its application will flood the plant with female hormones which will result in dominant female expression.

However, this doesn't explain how you can usually determine sex expression before you put the plant into bloom by observing their pre-flowers. Their statements make it seem as though "the plant doesn't know until its put into bloom" whether it is a female or a male, however plants in veg do show sexual expression with pre-flowers.

I'm just guessing here, but I would think that some sexual hormones are released in veg, which produce the preflowers, and whichever hormones those are, male or female, that will the the predominant expression. Then when the plant is put into bloom, these sexual hormones are produced in mass, still competing male and female hormones. So, even if a plant is predominantly female, expressed by the pre-flowers, the competing male and female hormones are also produced at a much higher rate when put into bloom, which may develop into the expression of a few male flowers on a female dominant plant, to a lesser or greater extent.

I'm just guessing though, so take it with a grain of salt, its just a proposition that makes sense to me.

This doesn't address your concerns specifically, but it does add another aspect to hermi expression, other than stress.

 

[Budley Doright]

Busting "grow lore"?
Hard mode for the win!!!!


If your plant has genetic tendencies to herm it can happen after a few generations of perfectly fine grows.

It happens as a response to stimuli.

Add CS or GB you get herm expression.
Manipulate light cycles correctly you get herm expression.
If your strain is sexually stable you are much less likely to see herm expression.
All cannabis has the ability to produce opposite sex flowers as a survival mechanism

Exactly this in fact why I did the thread.....


To see if this isnt just like other grow fables...


like grafting hops on cannabis roots....

that water drops cause leaf burns due to magnification....

That sort of thing....


however without examples you also speak of the fable not the fact.......

 

[MIway]

are you guys for real?

same plant, multiple runs over almost 2 years... have had clean runs w her for a baseline... got her in place that i had no control... lots of heat issues (a/c failed some 8 times w temps went up to mid 90's + power losses that fucked w the photoperiod... also had mold in there, fwiw)... hermed out like no tomorrow. a few folks here visited that pos of a place... they can attest to how fucked up that environment was... crazy shit.

how did that girl hermi, for that run? these stresses happened throughout flower btw.


a while ago (i'm not going to go digging) some cat was all about XX females... finding the genetic mix that doesn't allow for the hermi expression... just takes hundreds, or whatever to get a large enough gene pool, to find that special one... that will not react to environmental stresses & can not express hermi. however, the vast majority of plants allow for this expression. just the same, some gene combo's will allow for every plant to express, no matter the conditions. u know, some plants don't even respond to silver?

it seems that some lines are very unstable... others less so... certainly breeding makes a difference, esp if you can run high enough pop counts to find 'the one'. but to suggest stressors don't bring about the expression...? certainly there are examples of where it does. and i doubt there are many breeders that have the luxury to work in super high numbers any more, so yeah, this certainly makes an impact to the seed world. guessin here... maybe someone is still running hundreds or thousands in their breeding work...???

 

[Budley Doright]

I read an email reply someone posted from dutchmasters in regards to their product called "reverse", which is supposed to reverse hermi's to solid females.

they said that when a plant is put into bloom, both male and female hormones are competing for their expression. They said that "reverse" is basically a synthetic form of the female hormone, that, upon its application will flood the plant with female hormones which will result in dominant female expression.

However, this doesn't explain how you can usually determine sex expression before you put the plant into bloom by observing their pre-flowers. Their statements make it seem as though "the plant doesn't know until its put into bloom" whether it is a female or a male, however plants in veg do show sexual expression with pre-flowers.

I'm just guessing here, but I would think that some sexual hormones are released in veg, which produce the preflowers, and whichever hormones those are, male or female, that will the the predominant expression. Then when the plant is put into bloom, these sexual hormones are produced in mass, still competing male and female hormones. So, even if a plant is predominantly female, expressed by the pre-flowers, the competing male and female hormones are also produced at a much higher rate when put into bloom, which may develop into the expression of a few male flowers on a female dominant plant, to a lesser or greater extent.

I'm just guessing though, so take it with a grain of salt, its just a proposition that makes sense to me.

This doesn't address your concerns specifically, but it does add another aspect to hermi expression, other than stress.

I saw some old research which bears what you say out....


they took a big old bag of seeds and started them in varying periods... from like 7 to 18


they got more hermies under 7 than 18.....


I agree with the idea that sex is somehow determined in veg but remians what it is there after......


Good post....

 

[dagnabit]

like grafting hops on cannabis roots....

this has been done many times..
there is just no point in doing so...

that water drops cause leaf burns due to magnification....

this cn happen as well
it actually happens frequently.

however without examples you also speak of the fable not the fact.......

crush?!?!?!?

 

[Budley Doright]

are you guys for real?

same plant, multiple runs over almost 2 years... have had clean runs w her for a baseline... got her in place that i had no control... lots of heat issues (a/c failed some 8 times w temps went up to mid 90's + power losses that fucked w the photoperiod... also had mold in there, fwiw)... hermed out like no tomorrow. a few folks here visited that pos of a place... they can attest to how fucked up that environment was... crazy shit.

how did that girl hermi, for that run? these stresses happened throughout flower btw.


a while ago (i'm not going to go digging) some cat was all about XX females... finding the genetic mix that doesn't allow for the hermi expression... just takes hundreds, or whatever to get a large enough gene pool, to find that special one... that will not react to environmental stresses & can not express hermi. however, the vast majority of plants allow for this expression. just the same, some gene combo's will allow for every plant to express, no matter the conditions. u know, some plants don't even respond to silver?

it seems that some lines are very unstable... others less so... certainly breeding makes a difference, esp if you can run high enough pop counts to find 'the one'. but to suggest stressors don't bring about the expression...? certainly there are examples of where it does. and i doubt there are many breeders that have the luxury to work in super high numbers any more, so yeah, this certainly makes an impact to the seed world. guessin here... maybe someone is still running hundreds or thousands in their breeding work...???

Ive not said it doesnt happen....



but how often based on how many mother plants are out there....


You yourself said that they turned only due to extreme environmental issues.....

The thread isnt an affront to anyones intelligence....

Its just a survey of sorts....


Your example sort of excludes you as the plants are not in a reasonalble environment......

 

[dagnabit]

but to suggest stressors don't bring about the expression...?

i was thinking to myself..
he cant really mean that stress can not cause a plant to express the trait.
you don't really think he is saying that environment plays zero role in expression of genetic traits do you?

i think we are just misunderstanding.

no one with a small modicum of growing knowledge would suggest such a thing.

we all understand why a female plants throw out male flowers.

 

[Budley Doright]

this cn happen as well
it actually happens frequently.

It really cant happen because to cause a hot spot there has to have some distance from the lens to the plant....

its called focal distance.....


what actually happens is that droplets which contain some nutrient begin to evaporate and causes the nutrient to become stronger and burns the plant tissue.....



But thats for another thread....

 

[High Country]

Perhaps this question should be asked of experienced outdoor growers. After all they are not exactly in control of the environment and would be more exposed to stresses than any indoor grower. It is an outdoor plant. What does it do in the wild?

 

[Budley Doright]

Perhaps this question should be asked of experienced outdoor growers. After all they are not exactly in control of the environment and would be more exposed to stresses than any indoor grower. It is an outdoor plant. What does it do in the wild?

NOpe Im not really interested in outdoors....


Im just looking for input from folks who make the typical mistakes that indoor growers make....


Of all the stressors which IMO might cause hermies its light cycle issues.......

 

[dagnabit]

light cycle is the easiest way to herm out a plant for sure..

leaving a female to flower way past her ripeness will do it easiest.

the response is a survival/propagation one.

a last ditch effort to create seeds before dying.


damn annuals...

 

[dagnabit]

Perhaps this question should be asked of experienced outdoor growers. After all they are not exactly in control of the environment and would be more exposed to stresses than any indoor grower. It is an outdoor plant. What does it do in the wild?

i would think the expression of the recessive herm trait would be much more likely indoors...
my reasoning being the suns timer never takes a crap nor does the earths fans,pumps or ballasts go out

 

[High Country]

Im just looking for input from folks who make the typical mistakes that indoor growers make....

If these little shit bags don't stress a plant...nothing will.

SPIDER MITES

No problems...the strain continues, no hermies.

 

[Budley Doright]

light cycle is the easiest way to herm out a plant for sure..

leaving a female to flower way past her ripeness will do it easiest.

...

Soma used a method like that to create feminized seeds....

and I think a good plant like this is fabulous....


however again this would not count....


as to get the plant to hermie you have to leave the plant for a couple weeks after you would have picked it.....

 

[High Country]

Soma used a method like that to create feminized seeds....

and I think a good plant like this is fabulous....


however again this would not count....


as to get the plant to hermie you have to leave the plant for a couple weeks after you would have picked it.....

I've tried rhodellerisation and my strain would not put out male flowers.

 

[Budley Doright]

I've tried rhodellerisation and my strain would not put out male flowers.

Many plants dont....


this is a trait you can breed for.....


however I think what many would find in somas stuff is that they had hermies that showed earlier than 2 weeks post ripeness.....



in other words I would not have been surprised based on somas use of these late hermi flowers to make seeds which also produced earlier male flowers unlike the seed parent.....

 

[High Country]

That's why I like my strain, the only thing that makes it put out male flowers is a chemical, colloidal silver.

STS would probably do that to.

No environmental changes will get it to produce male flowers and the stock mother plants are the progeny of colloidal silver feminised seed.

I'm kind of losing track of where this thread is going.

 

[Budley Doright]

That's why I like my strain, the only thing that makes it put out male flowers is a chemical, colloidal silver.

STS would probably do that to.

No environmental changes will get it to produce male flowers and the stock mother plants are the progeny of colloidal silver feminised seed.

I'm kind of losing track of where this thread is going.

You dont fit very well because you have been growing the same strain since captain kangaroo was a young man......



Those with multiple strains would have better input....

 

[Budley Doright]

does anyone find it odd how few examples of plants turning hermie after the first cycle of flowering????


Certainly there must be a few more good examples?????