Why are people against pruning?

[grassott]

Happy plant. Just before defolied.

Sad plant. Just been defolied.

An even happier plant, just six days after her first defoli.

So far in this experiment I've made these observations. Just one week after her first defoli she's bounced back stronger than before. Notice the beautiful structure forming. Notice the lower budsites developing. Normally I'd chop off the lower branches, thinking that it's just gonna be popcorn anyway. During this experiment I no longer need to cut off anymore budsites. To get this strucure going I also lolly pop. Just a few lower branches being removed earlier on, about a week before her first defol. This aids watering (I hate it when I accidentally splash water on the lower leaves).

My whole garden 6 days after their first major defoli...

Remember when they all looked like this? A sorry sight I must admit. When Britney Spears shaved off her hair she looked a sore sight too if you dig me.

And look at them now. Dam near fully recovered. They'll be going in hempy buckets tonight and due for their second major defol in about a week's time, after they've leafed up a bit.

 

[mad librettist]

So far in this experiment I've made these observations. Just one week after her first defoli she's bounced back stronger than before

what I see is it takes you a week to recover from defoliation, with overall growth less than it would be if you left them alone. Where are the shots of the plants you leave alone? Are you aware that no-defoliated plants also grow quite a bit in 6 days?

also, why am I comparing a non-defoliated plant that has bad lighting to post-defoliated plants with good lighting?

hey, I'm just a crazy organic fanatic, but your pics aren't convincing me...

let's look again:

before defoliation

and here is a week's worth of growth:

your plant did not grow all that much for 6 days... If I also assume you are exaggerating as many do online...

 

[grassott]

The day she got defolied

Six days after defolied.

Can you see the difference now? What I'm doing here is prepping the girls. Yes, defoli-ing makes vegging longer but that's no biggie to me. I had a problem with to fast growth when they go into my hempy buckets.

Now this experiment is not to convince anyone. It's to show results of aggressive defoliation that the vast majority of us have never seen. If you like massive huge fan leaves blocking lower/inner budsites and restricting air flow, then that's fine. I personally never want to have and overgrown bushy garden again.

 

[mad librettist]

The day she got defolied

Six days after defolied.

Can you see the difference now? What I'm doing here is prepping the girls. Yes, defoli-ing makes vegging longer but that's no biggie to me. I had a problem with to fast growth when they go into my hempy buckets.

Now this experiment is not to convince anyone. It's to show results of aggressive defoliation that the vast majority of us have never seen. If you like massive huge fan leaves blocking lower/inner budsites and restricting air flow, then that's fine. I personally never want to have and overgrown bushy garden again.

yes I can see the difference, and I could before. your photos look to me like you are wasting time on a "make-work" project for plants. They don't look especially impressive a week after defoliation, even if from your perspective the plant has accomplished an amazing feat. What matters is your actual gains over a period of time - in this case you gained very little in one week.

sounds like you defoliate for reasons other than yield from what you say. I gather you have a timing issue. FYI, you might increase yield with many of the proven methods, like LST for instance.

Again, your pics look just like a plant recovering from disaster. It's able to do that. but nothing you have shown supports the idea that defoliation helps yields or structure. I don't even see why you feel budsites are being shaded. are you using a 50 watt HPS?

you are using a whole week to recover. it is a very vulnerable week. your pics, IMO, do not help your case. You also have little budsites left down below that are a waste of time. You should have removed those and left the fans. They will fall off on their own as the canopy above fills in, (if you allow it to fill in), and any mobile nutrients and energy will be retained by your plant.

have you tried LST, or bending/crushing the main stem?



I think you would have much better results if you did less damage to your plants.

 

[grassott]

I knew that people was going to pre-judge and diss my plants before the conclusion of the experiment. I'm doing this to see for myself if it increases yield after being prepped up in this aggressive manner, being the risk taker that I am.

Its still early days mate. Just sit back and wait for the experiment to finish, which would be this Christmas. Then we can discuss the outcomes instead of assuming the outcomes at this very early stage of the experiment.

 

[mad librettist]

double post

 

[mad librettist]

I knew that people was going to pre-judge and diss my plants before the conclusion of the experiment. I'm doing this to see for myself if it increases yield after being prepped up in this aggressive manner, being the risk taker that I am.

Its still early days mate. Just sit back and wait for the experiment to finish, which would be this Christmas. Then we can discuss the outcomes instead of assuming the outcomes at this very early stage of the experiment.

dissing your plants would be a waste of my time and yours. you DID post some pics of pretty lousy progress along with captions touting the virtues...


look here - I remove as much material as you, but a lot of it gets used up by the plant first. I don't remove that which is shading, but that which is shaded.

 

[SirTOKESalot]

Everyone that thinks their one way is right is WRONG.
Some strains like it better then others, like some plants like to be topped.


In early-Mid Veg there should be more then enough leaf content to keep the plant going strong, In flower the FLOWERS do exactly as the leaf mater does and Photosynthesis will still keep on chugging away with very little leaf mater. If your plants are healthy and getting taken care of its been absolutely fine in my past but if there are issues then don't pluck.

THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE YES OR NO.... There are a lot of variables that come into play and unless you are sitting in a lab talking on ICMAG you have no way to truly know. I have been doing a lab on this at school for the last month and have another month 1/2 to go to truly compare.

 

[grassott]

...your plant did not grow all that much for 6 days... If I also assume you are exaggerating as many do online...

I'm not a liar. Seems like you've pre-judged the results in your head already. I hope others can examine and more importantly enjoy this experiment with an open mind instead of looking for trouble.

PS. You cannot say that you've removed as much material as I have. Look at the difference in size of our plants for starters mate.

 

[grassott]

Everyone that thinks their one way is right is WRONG....

This is more like a fair statement. Basically what I think he's saying here is that you grow your way and I grow mine? I could be wrong. My experiment may go bad. If it goes bad then at least I have results to prove it, which is why I'm going to do this experiment.

 

[mad librettist]

Pardon me, but before this was an experiment you were saying it works, and why.


Is it always wrong to think one way is right and another is wrong? Is saying one way is wrong the same as saying only one way is right?

Seems to me people are confused about what consists good judgement, and what is the latest fad.

Id say I remove as much material as the defoliators. Im removing almost half the bud sites and leaves my plants produce. I simply do the opposite from you - I keep the most efficient parts and ditch the rest. If a budsite does not have the moxie to make it to the canopy, off with its head.

 

[grassott]

I never said it works, I said I'm happy with the results so far. I'm happy so far because of how the structure of the plants are forming and the added light beaming on the budsites causing them to grow higher than if they was shaded by fatty leaf.

I don't know if it works yet because I haven't even flowered them. They're gonna get vegged and prepp'd up then 12/12 in about a months time. Then we gotta wait til around Christmas time to harvest and examine numbers etc. I can then compare it to this crop which was not aggressively defolied in veg, just the fatty leaves that was blocking the lower budsites got removed in this pic...

A non aggressively defol'd garden. I know my pics are shit, coz my digicam got stolen by some thieving bastard ages ago. On top of a 600watter with an adjust a wing reflector, I'll have to ask Santa for a new digicam too lol.

 

[mad librettist]

This is more like a fair statement. Basically what I think he's saying here is that you grow your way and I grow mine? I could be wrong. My experiment may go bad. If it goes bad then at least I have results to prove it, which is why I'm going to do this experiment.

But it does seem to me you are alredy seeing positive results in the pics you posted, so what are the chances you will decide it didn't help?

And don't worry, no one is calling you a liar. I merely have an 3xpectation that the usual deal applies here.



Your non defoliated garden looks great. You have no structure problems, nor do your defoliated pla ts show improved structure.


Btw what you are doing is basically simulated herbivory. If you are doing research it might help to search for effects of herbivory on crop plants.

 

[grassott]

You do a lot of seeming. I'm going to compare this grow to my last grow, which was not aggressively defol'd. Do you understand this or not? If not, please let me know what it is you don't understand and I'll try and explain it again for you.

 

[mad librettist]

I try to seem regularly.

 

[VerdantGreen]

I aint sayin nuffin. Ima gonna let my pics do the talking...

Just 3 and a half days after defoli and the leaves are growing back from my "massacre". I'm just experimenting in my garden to see if this works. After the results I've seen in Hempy's garden I just had to give it a shot.

*DISCLAIMER* DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. ALSO, DO NOT DO THIS IF YOUR PLANTS ARE ALREADY IN FLOWER. THIS MUST BE STARTED IN THE VEGGY STAGE. DOING THIS IN FLOWER COULD SERIOUSLY FUCK UP YOUR CROP!"

This is advice given by a person who does this religiously.

so you're saying that, because the plant grows back leaves after you cut them off, that defol is a good idea - im not quite getting your logic there - in fact i would say that this shows that the plant liked having leaves and would have to use a lot of energy to regrow them. in a later post you say that this is an experiment and you are doing it for the first time - perhaps you should wait for the results before you decide that a plant growing back it's leaves because you cut them off makes the defol a good idea??

VG

 

[mad librettist]

And hey, since you are doing the experiment, that frees up the rest of us to grow plants like you used to.

 

[grassott]

so you're saying that, because the plant grows back leaves after you cut them off, that defol is a good idea - im not quite getting your logic there - in fact i would say that this shows that the plant liked having leaves and would have to use a lot of energy to regrow them. in a later post you say that this is an experiment and you are doing it for the first time - perhaps you should wait for the results before you decide that a plant growing back it's leaves because you cut them off makes the defol a good idea?

You forgot to include this pic in your response mate...

I understand that it's impossible for you guys to see what I'm seeing here. Budsites which was previously shaded by the fatty leaves have grown stronger just 6 days after defoli. I aint kidding either. If I left them fat nasty leaves, the budsites would NOT have grown much IME.

As I said, lets wait for the results of the experiment before we start assuming things. At xmas time when all the data is in, that's when I'll be able to answer people's questions. Agreed?

Changing the subject, my football (soccer to you guys I think lol) team's just won 2-1

 

[grassott]

...let those budsites at the bottom get that light so you dont have to deal with popcorn buds

Yeah that's why I'm doing this experiment. It'd be interesting to see how defoli treats the tiny popcorn.

So, have you defolied before mate? I gotta say that the last pic of yours looks like a good defoli job

 

[mad librettist]

Its not impossible to see, we are just missing the emotional component. What I am seeing is not shaded by bias.

You keep thinking everyone is missing something only you can see... then you back off and say its experiment, then it goes back to being an unimpeachable tech ique... it seems to me things that happen anyway are being attributed to defoli


Check out the user crush. He's the defoliation poster boy.