Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[RetroGrow]

In a 30 second search of the internet I found both kinds. The question about all of these systemic products is, where is the proof that it is not in the final product? I would rather chuck my plants than ingest harmful chemicals. I know what the labels say, but has anyone proved that their buds were actually safe to smoke?

Also, how are you using the granules? I bought some Evergreen, and have been using it for almost a week. I am not sure if it is working or not, because I only saw 1 aphid in the first place. I hope it works, because it really effected my last plants yield.

I have a question though. I have a plant that is about 5 weeks into flower. She started showing signs of RA's and that is the plant that I saw the 1 on the roots. Anyhow, it is not getting better. It is still bulking up, but the fan leaves are still showing Cal-Mag def signs. Anyhow, should I scrap her, or try to keep her around for another month? Part of me wants to just chuck it, but it should yield pretty decent even with the RA hiccup. Any advice?

Why would you chuck it if it's almost done?
Also, one single RA wouldn't create a noticeable difference in the plant, and where there's one, there has to be more, but it's a light infestation, so no worries. You can use Botaniguard ES all the way through flower if you want. It's a natural biological and not a pesticide. It's 96% effective. Or you could use Bayer Citrus, Fruit & Vegetable up to 21 days before harvest on food crops, so it depends how many weeks your strain is. They call it Citrus, Fruit & Vegetable, because it's formulated to be safe for food crops, and it's a liquid. You don't want to use granules.The medium would also be a factor, but even in soil, a good two week flush before chop would take care of that anyway. Whatever you do, do not use the poison that cyat recommended.

 

[slowandeasy]

Why would you chuck it if it's almost done?
Also, one single RA wouldn't create a noticeable difference in the plant, and where there's one, there has to be more, but it's a light infestation, so no worries. You can use Botaniguard ES all the way through flower if you want. It's a natural biological and not a pesticide. It's 96% effective. Or you could use Bayer Citrus, Fruit & Vegetable up to 21 days before harvest on food crops, so it depends how many weeks your strain is. They call it Citrus, Fruit & Vegetable, because it's formulated to be safe for food crops, and it's a liquid. You don't want to use granules.The medium would also be a factor, but even in soil, a good two week flush before chop would take care of that anyway. Whatever you do, do not use the poison that cyat recommended.

I know where there is one there is more. I have 4 to 5 weeks left, and am considering chucking because it is getting worse daily. It does not look horrible, you know when it gets the Cal Mag def look...but every day more leaves are getting screwed up.

In 12 years I have never had a bug problem, this is a first. I want to make sure they are gone. I use Canna Coco, and I know you said they do not live in bags of Coco, but I disagree. Once I opened my last bag of Coco is when I starting getting them...I never saw a flyer, but it was a clear crawler that I saw. Plants started showing signs week 3-5.

I have been using Evergreen 60-6 at 2ml per Gal for almost a week. I have a couple that are 2 weeks into flower, and look amazing. They are growing like mad and look perfect...so hopefully they stay that way. I also have a bunch of vegging plants and clones that look good...but I have no idea if the RA's are gone or not. Only time will tell, luckily I caught it before it was bad.

I am going to continue with the Evergreen and see how the plants do, so far so good. If I cannot get rid of them I will try the Bayer Citrus. I just saw it on Clearance anyhow. What dosage do you suggest and application tech are you suggesting? I use GH nutes. Thanks!!!!

 

[RetroGrow]

Double post...

 

[RetroGrow]

Just follow the label. I think it's a tablespoon per gallon. If you are in coco, they are easy to get rid of. Wait until the pots are dry. Really dry. Then water with imid solution and they will drink it right up. By the way you can easily check the plants by removing plant from pot, and inspecting the bottom of the root mass with a loupe or some other magnifier. Use a bright light, and be patient. Eventually, after a minute or so, you will see one if there are any.
Another thing that will help is aspirin. It boosts the plants immune system, and helps it fight off any disease or pest, as RAs are disease vectors, and can spread viruses. One 325 MG tablet per gallon of solution. You will see improvement overnight on any sick plant. RAs live in soil in nature. They are everywhere. They can come from cuts. They can come in from your backyard, hitch a ride on your dog, or fly in an open window/door. But they don't live in coco that doesn't have plants in it, because there's nothing in coconut fiber for them to live on. Anyway, regardless of where they come from coco is the easiest medium to eliminate them in, as once the coco is really dry, plants suck up the water immediately, and RAs are dead from 3 days to a week or so. That was my experience with Bayer Complete, which has a 3 times higher concentration of imid than Citrus, Fruit & Vegetable. But that was in veg. As long as your plants look good I wouldn't worry. My first experience with RAs was dead plants. That's when I saw them, when I removed the dead plants from their containers. So if your plants are looking good, I wouldn't worry. But definitely pull a plant out of it's pot to check. When you catch them early, most of your problem is solved, and you will recognize them the next time.When I got them, this thread didn't exist and no one knew what was up, so the biggest problem then was figuring out what was wrong. On leaves/plants that look bad, I would use a foliar spray also, with aspirin and Florilicious + and a penetrator, like Dutch Masters Gold, or a few drops of plain dish soap. Spray leaves bottom and top @ lights out. Leaves will green up overnight. Floralicious + is the bomb, as is the whole GH line. Florilicious+ Is sea kelp and humic acid. All you really need though is Bloom (Lucas Formula), and the Plus. Don't forget to add one tablet of aspirin to the spray bottle.

 

[F. Dupp]

So, to sum up a 96 page thread into one post, this is what we have learned-


Imid is the be all end all.
It kills all species of root aphid and it works with every type of growing method known to man.

If you use Imid and it doesnt work, then you must have done it wrong and odds are you are too dumb to grow marijuana.

Do not attempt to kill root aphids with any other product. None of them work.

Do not discuss products other than Imid in RetroGrows root aphid thread.

Root aphids are easy to kill. One application of Imid is all it takes. If that doesnt work, find a new hobby, you fuckwit.



Will a mod please delete the previous 95 pages and lock this thread. RetroGrow has figured out how to kill root aphids. There is nothing more to discuss.

 

[the gnome]

well on the heels of () <---fill in the blanks of the last few posts I do have one last Q.

if your crop has enough RAs or Gnats to affect the health of the plant
will the roots be brown and discolored?
or??..............
I have search with a 60X microscope and have not seen any RAs
the roots are bound a bit but the over all color is nice and white
so I'm thinking my probs lie elsewhere

 

[RetroGrow]

So, to sum up a 96 page thread into one post, this is what we have learned-


Imid is the be all end all.
It kills all species of root aphid and it works with every type of growing method known to man.

If you use Imid and it doesnt work, then you must have done it wrong and odds are you are too dumb to grow marijuana.

Do not attempt to kill root aphids with any other product. None of them work.

Do not discuss products other than Imid in RetroGrows root aphid thread.

Root aphids are easy to kill. One application of Imid is all it takes. If that doesnt work, find a new hobby, you fuckwit.



Will a mod please delete the previous 95 pages and lock this thread. RetroGrow has figured out how to kill root aphids. There is nothing more to discuss.

You can continue to twist things around anyway you like dimwit, to compensate for your mental shortcomings.
You and your two fucktard friends have recommended an extremely dangerous and potentially deadly chemical as a solution, which should never be used or handled by anyone here. That's why Bayer stopped making it, and why the government restricted it. It is classified in the MOST dangerous group of pesticides, with recommended human exposure at ZERO.
The reality is that I have recommended two products that I and many others here and around the world know to work: Imid/Merit & Botaniguard for those who don't want to use pesticides. These products are used successfully in professional greenhouses & farms around the world by the thousands, as well as by many growers here and around the world. This does not mean that there are no other products that might work, but I can only recommend the ones which I KNOW to work. Because you screwed up in your attempt does not mean they don't work, it just means that the pinhole your brain is fermenting in is getting tinier all the time. It must be that "indoor" species of root aphids that only zor and you are privy to.
You know, the ones that don't exist.
For you morons to come on here and recommend a deadly poison that should never be handled by humans pretty much sums it up. I think anyone who does a bit of research can see this. I'm just here to insure that no one gets hurt by your stupid and irresponsible advice.
I'm really sorry I tried to help you, because you are truly an asshat. So go back to PMing zor & cyat. Maybe the three of you can get together and smoke some of cyat's poison weed. It might boost your brain power.Good luck with that.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Fair warning--if you are organic---Imid half-life can be a 3-4 months...wonder how much Imid we all be smoking?

Full reports at...http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/envfate.htm

Soil: The high water solubility and low Koc for imidacloprid indicates a low tendency for adsorption to soil particles. Field studies have produced a wide range in half-life values (t1/2) from 27 to 229 days (Miles, Inc., 1992; Mobay Chemical Corp., 1992). Scholz et al. (1992) found that imidacloprid degradation was more rapid in soils with cover crops than in bare soils, with a t1/2 of 48 and 190 days, respectively. Degradation on soil via photolysis has a t1/2 of 39 days. The half-life of imidacloprid in the soil tends to increase as soil pH increases (Sarkar et al., 2001). In the absence of light, the longest half-life of imidacloprid was 229 days in field studies and 997 days in laboratory studies (Miles, Inc., 1992; Mobay Chemical Corp., 1992). This persistence in soil in the absence of light makes imidacloprid suitable for seed treatment and incorporated soil application because it allows continual availability for uptake by roots (Mullins, 1993). Thus, imidacloprid can persist in soil depending on soil type, pH, use of organic fertilizers, and presence or absence of ground cover.

Soil adsorption and half-life estimates have been shown to be dependent on soil properties. Field and laboratory studies have determined that imidacloprid adsorption to soil particles increases as the concentration of the insecticide decreases (Cox et al., 1998; Oi, 1999; Kamble and Saran, 2005). The sorption level of imidacloprid is also affected by soil properties such as organic carbon and minerals. As the organic carbon levels and laminar silicate clay content in the soil increase, the potential for imidacloprid to leach would decrease (Cox et al., 1997, 1998b, 1998c). Organic fertilizers, such as chicken and cow manure, increased the pesticide adsorption to the organic matter and increased its half-life. Half-lives ranged from 40 days when no organic fertilizers were used to 124 days when cow manure was used.

 

[zor]

Because you screwed up in your attempt does not mean they don't work, it just means that the pinhole your brain is fermenting in is tgetting tinier all the time. It must be that "indoor" species of root aphids that only zor and you are privy to.
You know, the ones that don't exist.

wow retro. you have really showed your true colors. At first, I thought you had a genuine interest in helping people. Clearly, this is not the case.

You only address me to throw mindless insults. When pressed for details to explain your far fetched theories, you don't answer.

You are misinformed retro. it is not people making this shit up about the aphids not being afffected by the imid. Once again, jedi growers all over have testified to this fact, not just the few people in this thread that you attack.

Furthermore, phyloxerra and aphids are NOT all wiped out by imid. IN the wine industry, grafting is used to aphid resistent grape vines as a 'workaround'. Why not just dump some imid on the non resistent ones if imid is the cure all?

universities are doing studies into them. One such link regarding the phloxerra eggs living in minutes soaked in bleech was posted here iirc.

 

[zor]

In 12 years I have never had a bug problem, this is a first. I want to make sure they are gone. I use Canna Coco, and I know you said they do not live in bags of Coco, but I disagree. Once I opened my last bag of Coco is when I starting getting them

Slow and easy, retro has also claimed that somehow, RA's cant lay eggs in the coco while sitting at the hydro shop. Only in bags of 'soil'. How the RA's know which bags are 'soil' and which are 'coco based soil mix' is beyond me. I asked him to explain this claim to no avail. Retro likes to spew pages of incoherent rambling of the same few points, call it 'contribution', then spazzes on anyone that questions his far fetched claims.

There is no reason to think that somehow bags of soil and bags of coco are different to aphids. If there is, retro can explain it im sure with 'your a nitwit'

 

[the gnome]

BUMP...anyone?

well on the heels of () <---fill in the blanks of the last few posts I do have one last Q.

if your crop has enough RAs or Gnats to affect the health of the plant
will the roots be brown and discolored?
or??..............
I have search with a 60X microscope and have not seen any RAs
the roots are bound a bit but the over all color is nice and white
so I'm thinking my probs lie elsewhere

 

[F. Dupp]

BUMP...anyone?

I posted pics of typical RA damage to my plants on pages 85 and 87. It looks like Mg and N deficiancies at first. Then leaves will begin crisping up and dying. Often only half the fan leaf will die and the other half will just yellow. My roots were always getting rot, but I was in hydro.

The micros are very small. Barely visible to the naked eye.
Here are some magnified videos of them-
http://www.youtube.com/user/bongorilla666

 

[F. Dupp]

And for the record, I highly recommend using Evergreen 60-6. Thats what finally killed my RA's. It was fast and effective. It is a pyrethrin based insecticide. It can be used constantly and up until the day of harvest safely. Pyrethrins have no effect on mammals, and according to the Dept. of Agriculture pyrethrins are the safest of all insecticides for use in food plants.
Evergreen also contains piperonyl butoxide which can be toxic to humans if it becomes airborne. So dont huff it.

I am not exaggerating when I say that Evergreen 60-6 wiped out my root aphid infestation IMMEDIATELY.

So RetroGrow, I added Imid to my rez, I dunked plants in it, and I applied it foliarly. To plants in all different stages from clone to flower. I still had RA's. Tell me how I did it wrong. What the fuck was I supposed to do, inject Imid intravenously into the stem of the plant?
As far as other people here recommending toxic things to apply to plants, remember we are talking about poisons here. Imid is poison, systemic poison at that.
We are all big boys and can decide for ourselves what we are willing to do to kill these bugs. So, fuck off mom.

 

[overgrowit]

Yea there is no need to get all upset, what works for one person doesnt always work for another. You should treat people as you would in person. If we were all chilling taking snaps, Retrogrow would have been tossed out on his ass real quick

These things have been around my grow for several cycles so I know they are drinking. They not be able to grow without first drinking solution that im feeding them. I have used all sorts of pesticides including Merit 75 at high doses every week throughout veg an 2 weeks into flower, but they still persist. They are almost gone but if I look hard enough they are there.

I started feeding them with evergreen a week ago and haven't seen any so far. Ive been using all sorts of things spectracide, bayer complete, botaniguard, sn203, etc so it is hard to pinpoint what is working best.


Those pictures of the beneficial mites look alot like micros i see. However, my plants get the symptoms of RAs every time. They start nice and green throughout veg and into flower and then after the stretch they start to yellow out real bad, alot of time starting from the leaf veins outward.

 

[RetroGrow]

.
As far as other people here recommending toxic things to apply to plants, remember we are talking about poisons here. Imid is poison, systemic poison at that.

There you go twisting the truth again, but that's come to be expected with you. You are just so full of shit.
It wasn' t just "other people". You were agreeing with and encouraging him. And it's not just another pesticide. It's a poison that is classified as DEADLY. Human beings are supposed to have ZERO exposure to it. So you can put arsenic on your shit if you want, but don't recommend something that is classified in the highest class of toxicity to others, and then turn around and say it's the same as imid or other products which are commonly used, because it isn't. That's why it's banned. The other products are tested and are safe. Imid has been used for decades as a flea & tick killer for dogs and cats, so it's been proven to be relatively safe.They take it internally. And Botaniguard is not a poison, it is a biological that infects and kills RAs, but is harmless to people. There is no correlation to any of those with the DEADLY POISON that you and cyat were recommending, which was beyond stupid and irresponsible. You obviously did no research on it before making your dumb statements. You have to wear hazmet gear to even go near that shit, and it should never be recommended here. It's not a viable option at all. So go fuck yourself if you are going to continue to talk that shit and lie blatantly. It's one thing to experiment with whatever you want, but don't recommend an extremely dangerous poison and act like it's the same as recommending pyrethrins or Evergreen or anything else, 'cause it's not.

 

[RetroGrow]

There is no reason to think that somehow bags of soil and bags of coco are different to aphids. If there is, retro can explain it im sure with 'your a nitwit'

Actually, you redefine the concept of "nitwit"
You're the one who claimed there were "indoor" and "outdoor" species of RAs.
Now how stupid is that?
There is no such think as an "indoor" species.
All of them originate outdoors.
Maybe in your world there is a separate evolution. But in reality, all root aphids are outdoor. And the majority of the ones that impact us don't lay eggs, they bear live young, even though there are some species that lay eggs ie corn root aphids, that live in corn fields. But all of them live in dirt, & none of them live in coconuts. So the one spewing garbage here is you.
"Indoor root aphids", LOL, that's too funny.
You sound like a 12 year old with a BS story like that. It shows the level of your mentality that you could make up a story like that and actually consider it reasonable.

 

[F. Dupp]

There you go twisting the truth again, but that's come to be expected with you. You are just so full of shit.
It wasn' t just "other people". You were agreeing with and encouraging him. And it's not just another pesticide. It's a poison that is classified as DEADLY. Human beings are supposed to have ZERO exposure to it. So you can put arsenic on your shit if you want, but don't recommend something that is classified in the highest class of toxicity to others, and then turn around and say it's the same as imid or other products which are commonly used, because it isn't. That's why it's banned. The other products are tested and are safe. Imid has been used for decades as a flea & tick killer for dogs and cats, so it's been proven to be relatively safe.They take it internally. And Botaniguard is not a poison, it is a biological that infects and kills RAs, but is harmless to people. There is no correlation to any of those with the DEADLY POISON that you and cyat were recommending, which was beyond stupid and irresponsible. You obviously did no research on it before making your dumb statements. You have to wear hazmet gear to even go near that shit, and it should never be recommended here. It's not a viable option at all. So go fuck yourself if you are going to continue to talk that shit and lie blatantly. It's one thing to experiment with whatever you want, but don't recommend an extremely dangerous poison and act like it's the same as recommending pyrethrins or Evergreen or anything else, 'cause it's not.

You show me where I recommend using Disfuloton. I have not used it and therefor cannot recommend it. I told cyat that another member of this thread (whom you chased off with your big fucking mouth) had used the 2in1 rose care that cyat had spoken of and it killed his RA's.
So who is "twisting the truth"? You are. Dont sit there in your comfy little chair and call me a liar, you punk.
You are singlehandedly ruining this thread. Alot of people have all come here and shared their experiences with this satanic bug. While everyone else is working together and looking for a way to wipe these things out, all you do is pop in every night to tell everyone how stupid they are, call people names, and recite the same old Imid/Merit recipe.

Several members have dropped out of this thread solely because of you. Other members have begun PMing the discussion instead of doing it out in the open forum, because they dont want to deal with you and the drama you create.
Your thinking is so convoluted that you actually think you are helping people. In reality you are wiping out everyone elses hard work by destroying this thread and chasing away members who, despite what you think, have valuable information to add to the discussion. Keep in mind that this is not your thread. You did not start it, nor is it about you. People are coming here for help, what they are getting is confrontation and drama. FROM YOU. No one here has had any problem with the other members of the thread, ONLY YOU. This is probably the most informative thread available on Root Aphids and MJ in the world, and you have dumbed it down. Your ME vs The World attitude, with all the name calling and such is creating a kindergarten playground atmosphere. You actually take offense to anyone implying that there may be another way to kill RA's other than your way.

You are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Well, you probably enjoy it, but the rest of us are suffering.

I repeat- No one here has had any problem with the other members of the thread. ONLY YOU.

 

[F. Dupp]

RetroGrow, you have made several enemies in a thread about bugs. Dont you find that strange?

 

[sicxmade]

First off I would like to thank everybody who has contributed to this thread. It's sad to think of how many growers out there have this problem and have no idea. So we should spread this information as far as we can so we could possibly help a grower dealing with this terrible problem. That being said, I believe if I tried "A working solution for aphids" as seen in the first post, I think I would probably still have the dreaded RA and a few other problems I wouldn't be too happy about.(In my opinion)

I had the black plague of root aphids. I'm talking thousands of fliers in only four 5 gallon pots. I acquired them from roots organics potting soil which is probably 1/4 aphids by weight. I would like to say that I believe tanglefoot or anything like it is thoroughly ineffective because 1 winged aphid could start the whole colony back up, as they can give birth to live young which are born "pregnant". So what I did was first, I covered the topsoil with around 2" of clean sand and the drainage tray all the way to the top with sand.(For holes around the sides) Now I have heard some say that this will hinder air exchange, though this is true to a point, I'm pretty sure hindered air exchange is far better than RA. So the sand very effectively stops fliers and quarantines each root zone so no bugs can get in or out which is very important for the next steps.(The sand hardens almost like a rock after first watering, no bug is getting out or in.) I use nopest strips to kill any aphids that weren't quarantined by the sand. This is just my opinion, but I didn't feel right about using the systemics like imid. So instead I got spectracide triazicide which is a contact killer, whereas the bayer TS is not if i'm not mistaken. And did 15ml per gallon and overwatered, making sure that the entire medium was soaked and did this 3 times, letting the medium dry out completely each time before repeating. About a week after the last treatment I saw the plants rebound dramatically it was unreal. I went from 0% to 100% cloning success rate as well. Three weeks after the last treatment I put them in flowering, first thing I did was give them hygrozyme and great white. Hygrozyme or any enzyme is exactly what plants need most after a brutal RA infestation as it will dissolve damaged roots allowing them to form new healthy roots quicker. The plants did amazing throughout flower without any "calmag" def or any deficiency really and turned out to be a great harvest. After I harvested I drowned the pots with 60ml a gal of triazicide to make sure everything was dead in them and cleaned the pots with bleach before reuse. I might add that the roots from the pots were very robust, unlike the previous harvest with roots organics, even growing out of the side slits into the sand. Since then I switched soils, and I'm very happy to report that 4 months later there are no traces of RA in my garden. But boy was it a plague and the aftermath was thousands of fliers on my carpet dead. So many it reminded me of samurai battlefields in feudal japan. But they were gone and it is good. I hope this information can help at least 1 person escape the grasp of these monsters as they are a terrible scourge upon us all.

 

[zor]

,
There is no such think as an "indoor" species.
All of them originate outdoors.

Some subspecies have proliferated in indoor gardens for the last few years.. I did not come up with this theory. People with WAY more knowledge than both of us have come up with this. So everyone is nitwit according to you.

But all of them live in dirt, & none of them live in coconuts.

So again, please define 'dirt'. Some 'soil' mixes have coco in them. Do the aphids know not to touch these now? How bout ocean forest soil with things like crab meal? Do aphids not touch this becuase they don't grow in crabs?

How about rockwool? last i heard rockwool is not a natural habitat of any insect yet they love to infect it.

Please educate us 'nitwits'.

Furthermore, flying aphids lay eggs. If you dont agree with this, then tell us all why the uni of cal davis is doin studies on how to kill the aphid eggs? Why go through all the trouble when the eggs dont exist?

You sound like a 12 year old with a BS story like that. It shows the level of your mentality that you could make up a story like that and actually consider it reasonable.

BS story? how bout a BS story about aphids that can't lay eggs, don't adapt to chemical pestisides, only proliferate in mediums that is made up of this mysterious 'dirt'.

Its hilarious cuz you have showed YOUR mentality through your ridiculous posts and belittling. Seriously, let the grown ups talk about aphids and you go practice your repeated mantras on your own. This thread is polluted with it.