President Obama- Drug Warrior?

[kathmandu]

the president of the usa will always be a puppet for big business once they are elected. big biz are the ones who put them in the white house in the first place...
...also what BIGHERBTREE said...
its a stacked deck unless you are in the top .01% of the wealthiest. the middle class will be a thing of the past in the not so distant future. they even want to get rid of minimum wage.
.. it will only continue to get worse because they know the majority of the people are too ignorant and lazy to do anything about it....most people dont know or care how bad the situation has become.

 

[SpasticGramps]

We don't fail to understand as much as you might imagine. There's not many folks willing to pull the plug (just to see what happens.)

So we destroy what's left of the middle class to prop the status quo for a bit longer? Ruin the currency because we are afraid to let these parasite mega banks restructure?

We won't get anywhere until the people who make bad decisions pay for it themselves. As long as the responsibly is pushed onto those least able to handle it income disparity will only worsen.

 

[rootfingers]

Many of the posts in this thread perpetuate the notion that many Americans are low information voters. I've read some things here that are blatantly opposite of reality and when that happens it goes to show that folks have taken some one else's opinion over their own personal critical thought for what reality even is. If you have not the time or inclination to monitor the actual events of government please find better sources of information and happenings. Alternatively, or at least, use a dictionary so you know what the words you say mean.

I'll just lay it out there, as of today: my personal voting strategy for 2012 goes like this, based on the likely perry v obama ballot.

Without the completely implausible Buddy Romer getting the republican nod I will NOT be voting for anybody with an R next to their name. Anybody paying attention to the back and forth between congresses and the white house, in addition to the tea party idiotic block of legislation that created a crisis over the debt ceiling, can see what kind of bullshit the pubs are on in congress. Add to that the attacks on teachers, police, firefighters and unions in general made by republican governors and their like and you have an easy choice of who NOT to vote for. One doesn't even have to think back to bush, there is enough in the last year to make me never want to vote for a R again.

Guess that means Obama for president.

For the rest of the state and local races I'll look for the most progressive liberal democrats and vote for them.

Any corporate candidates are not voted for. What it is to be too corporate is subjective to my tastes of course.

I'll vote green party or independent where I can/need to.

ALL judges voted out unless I have personal experience with them and see they are great.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

So we destroy what's left of the middle class to prop the status quo for a bit longer? Ruin the currency because we are afraid to let these parasite mega banks restructure?

We won't get anywhere until the people who make bad decisions pay for it themselves. As long as the responsibly is pushed onto those least able to handle it income disparity will only worsen.

If restructuring produces worse economic fallout than too big to fail policies, we'll probably go with the lesser of two evils. I realize I'm speculating but I don't really know the intricacies of global finance.

I agree that bailouts aren't what we want. With all due respect, my solution probably isn't yours. Without necessary regulations, it's my opinion that restructured Wall Street banks would go right back to the fast-money policies they won't let go of now. All the investment banks that don't have to restructure will lead the way.

 

[SpasticGramps]

If restructuring produces worse economic fallout than too big to fail policies, we'll probably go with the lesser of two evils. I realize I'm speculating but I don't really know the intricacies of global finance.

Big banks have spent a lot of money scaring people with mutually assured destruction rhetoric. It's BS IMO. Yes there would be some pain, but pain is part of economics. Bad decisions have bad consequences it's not fair for them to be pushed onto working people who had no say in the decisions. Too Big Too Fail is fantasy land economics. Nothing is too big too fail. The market will eventually get it's pound of flesh.

With all due respect, my solution probably isn't yours. Without necessary regulations, it's my opinion that restructured Wall Street banks would go right back to the fast-money policies they won't let go of now. All the investment banks that don't have to restructure will lead the way.

It's probably closer than you think. I'm not anti-regulation. I just think it's a moot point until the bad institutions are allowed to fail, debt is restructured, and criminals put behind bars. Then we can start talking about sensible regulations. What good are regulations when the inmates are running the asylum and you have the SEC destroying evidence to cover the tracks of the initial '08 robbery?

If one of these mega banks goes down they all will and they all deserve to. They deserve to be put out of business for creating the systemic risk. New ones will take their place.

 

[SpasticGramps]

based on the likely perry v obama ballot.

I initially thought this would be the ticket, but with Paul winning the CA straw poll and other straw polls I'm beginning to question that. He may have a decent chance.

Perry has a lot of issues that I think will eventually preclude him from getting the ticket.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Let the dollar devalue so that everyones money will be completely worthless?

I think you are missing the point. The dollar is being devalued BECAUSE we are bailing all these people out and monetizing our debt to keep pretending like we don't have a problem when we do. Europe has chosen austerity and eventually default to deal with their debt. We are monetizing it (hyperinflating it away).

I think the answer here is to start hanging these scumbags up.

Me and you both.

 

[rootfingers]

I initially thought this would be the ticket, but with Paul winning the CA straw poll and other straw polls I'm beginning to question that. He may have a decent chance.

Perry has a lot of issues that I think will eventually preclude him from getting the ticket.

And here I thought Obama destroyed the notion of "hope" for you.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hey thanks for the rep dude!
Damn you like that tone? Devisive, mocking... thats real presidential all right. Bringin America together.. the uniter. There are consequenses to mockery and they are NOT good. He has been doing it from day one and has never accepted any ideas from the other side. You may recall the Healthcare summit where he said "I WON" while stomping out reasonable ideas. He also said then that if his plans dont work 2012 will be our opportunity to change him out. Well, they havent worked and they dont have trajectory to ever work. So time will only make things worse with the model we are in now.
It is obvious that both his speech to Congress last week and this latest "Buffet Tax" speech are nothing but 2012 campaign speeches.. he knows full well that he cannot get anywhere near the support he needs to get these things done. Its all about him being able to point to congress and say "see, I tried, they are a do nothing congress". In truth the Senate is a do nothing senate but the house has been productive sending bills that would help the economy over to the senate with them sitting on them. Those are democrats if you didnt know it., The presidents own party hasnt been doing their job for a long time. They should all be fired. When are rank and file dems going to realize they are aiding in the destruction of our country by their silence or support for this clusterfuck? How can you be happy about further division rather than a plan that we can all get behind like actual tax code reform or social security/medicare reform... He wont touch the real problems at a time when we need a leader with some fukin balls all we got is a stuffed shirt with thin skin and a semi-hidden agenda to "fundamentally change" US. And what the fuk does that really mean? He doesnt like the free market system apparently. He is doing everything he can to keep it down. His policies SUCK... so I guess to some people that makes me a racist! LOL.. The left is dillusional at this point.. well, the left that still supports this guy.

Bringing America together...

I'll start by saying nobody stood in the way of the president's policy toward mmj state laws. That's a good thing.

However, a southern senator said 'We will break this president'. Slave owners used to refer to 'breaking' belligerent slaves. And the guy's from SC! How special. Same senator said heath insurance reform would be Obama's Waterloo, where the inference isn't merely opposition, it's deposition. Doesn't sound like Americana to me.

The house speaker said, 'Hell no you can't' suggesting compromise is out the window. Democracy is the art of compromise and that's why congressional approval is at all time lows.

The senate majority leader said the #1 goal is to deny the president a second term. Bush declared a legislative mandate with the percentage he defeated Kerry. Obama beat McCain with 3x that margin. Yet W still managed to work with congress enough to manifest the lions share of our deficits and debt. Today's opposition is a 'NO' rubber stamp. The electorate didn't put a president in office to effect the opposition's game plan. So this opposition needs to suck it up and compromise. Instead, they sold their souls to a fat little tax troll.

Never accepted the other side's ideas...

The six Republican ideas already in the health-care reform bill

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/five_compronises_in_health_car.html

1- 5 are Republican Ideas "On Obama's Compromise Table" & Were Offered By A Republican Congress At Least Once - Pennsylvania Agrees On These & GOP loses if they deny their own ideas . .
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63864.html

Obama has reached out to Republicans, even when he didn’t have to; he embraced Republican ideas as much as he could; he’s given plenty of administration posts to Republicans officials; and he’s demonstrated, to a fault, a willingness to compromise with his opponents.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_09/dont_blame_charlie_brown_for_l032305.php

​

The only idea the opposition has regarding heath insurance is allowing interstate commerce. We don't do that for a reason. If you get fucked with a worthless, out-of-state policy, your AG can't arbitrate. You're left with the bill.

CBO scored the overhaul as cheaper than the status quot. You might not likey the policy but you'd probably ignore your calculator as well.

Support for the Buffet plea...

ABC News polled the general public as 81% in favor of raising the top's rates

Expecting the opposition to lead...

Well, we'll just chuckle on this one quietly.

Doesn't like business...

In case this doesn't link, it's a google string Obama +pro business cooperation. There are only 89 million hits, surely more to consider than you're suggesting.

http://search.avg.com/route/?d=4cb5...&q=obama++pro+business&lng=en-US&iy=&ychte=us

The poster fears he'll be labeled racist...



I believes the poster listens to Frank Bluntz a bit to much. Has all the talking points but pesky little facts don't matter.

 

[SpasticGramps]

And here I thought Obama destroyed the notion of "hope" for you.

No, that would be Bernanke and our central bank.

I look at Obama like I do all President's past. Puppets doing the bidding of their corporate masters with bankers feverishly pulling the strings.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Big banks have spent a lot of money scaring people with mutually assured destruction rhetoric. It's BS IMO. Yes there would be some pain, but pain is part of economics. Bad decisions have bad consequences it's not fair for them to be pushed onto working people who had no say in the decisions. Too Big Too Fail is fantasy land economics. Nothing is too big too fail. The market will eventually get it's pound of flesh.

It's probably closer than you think. I'm not anti-regulation. I just think it's a moot point until the bad institutions are allowed to fail, debt is restructured, and criminals put behind bars. Then we can start talking about sensible regulations. What good are regulations when the inmates are running the asylum and you have the SEC destroying evidence to cover the tracks of the initial '08 robbery?

If one of these mega banks goes down they all will and they all deserve to. They deserve to be put out of business for creating the systemic risk. New ones will take their place.

Do we deserve considerably further economic pain to mitigate moral hazard? With regulation we wouldn't be mentioning morals. We'd watch as the industry largely conformed like it did before GLB Act.

We might be talking decades, generations... who knows? I don't like a crooked banker any more than the next guy. I might like the remedy even less if my ability to support my family completely sails out the window.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Do we deserve considerably further economic pain to mitigate moral hazard?

It's better to take the medicine early, but we are unfortunately already way late in the game. The longer we wait the worse the inevitable will be. And the pain will fall on the younger generations shoulders. Do they deserve that?

But that's why we are monetizing our debt, devaluing the currency, running 0% interest rates, and bailing everyone out. It's much easier to print the debt away and pretend everything is fine than to make the hard choices to deal with it. The end result is much more catastrophic, but it's the easier road for politicians to take until the road runs out. At which point their political careers will be the last thing on their minds.

 

[rootfingers]

Post 149 = definition of helpful post

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Bringing America together...

I'll start by saying nobody stood in the way of the president's policy toward mmj state laws. That's a good thing.

However, a southern senator said 'We will break this president'. Slave owners used to refer to 'breaking' belligerent slaves. And the guy's from SC! How special. Same senator said heath insurance reform would be Obama's Waterloo, where the inference isn't merely opposition, it's deposition. Doesn't sound like Americana to me.

The house speaker said, 'Hell no you can't' suggesting compromise is out the window. Democracy is the art of compromise and that's why congressional approval is at all time lows.

The senate majority leader said the #1 goal is to deny the president a second term. Bush declared a legislative mandate with the percentage he defeated Kerry. Obama beat McCain with 3x that margin. Yet W still managed to work with congress enough to manifest the lions share of our deficits and debt. Today's opposition is a 'NO' rubber stamp. The electorate didn't put a president in office to effect the opposition's game plan. So this opposition needs to suck it up and compromise. Instead, they sold their souls to a fat little tax troll.

There you go playing the race card.
The reason the presidents policies recieved such acceptance level by the republicans is because they were shoved down their throats without debate in the dead of night with many polls showing the people didnt want it. Since you like analogies, an analogy would be a rape victim being expected to go along with a rapist while he continues to have his way. You're damn right the republicans are going to fight back and give the same they recieved. Compromise was thrown away by this president in the first days of office so you can look straight back at him for the situation.

Never accepted the other side's ideas...

The six Republican ideas already in the health-care reform bill

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/five_compronises_in_health_car.html

1- 5 are Republican Ideas "On Obama's Compromise Table" & Were Offered By A Republican Congress At Least Once - Pennsylvania Agrees On These & GOP loses if they deny their own ideas . .
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63864.html

Obama has reached out to Republicans, even when he didn’t have to; he embraced Republican ideas as much as he could; he’s given plenty of administration posts to Republicans officials; and he’s demonstrated, to a fault, a willingness to compromise with his opponents.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_09/dont_blame_charlie_brown_for_l032305.php

​

The only idea the opposition has regarding heath insurance is allowing interstate commerce. We don't do that for a reason. If you get fucked with a worthless, out-of-state policy, your AG can't arbitrate. You're left with the bill.

CBO scored the overhaul as cheaper than the status quot. You might not likey the policy but you'd probably ignore your calculator as well.

No debate was had. Just because the democrats decided to put a few items everybody can agree on along with the destructive bill doesnt mean they compromised or were open to discussion or debate. FACT.
In that bill you have allot of rubbish that is going to keep the job situation where it is... employers are saying so.. that along with Dodd/Frank and we are just about locked up solid. Wonderful. 16000 more IRS agents will be making sure we are complying with the new laws. Draconian... fascist... and just plain sick and Un-American is what I call that .

The only reach out Obama is giving his opposition is when he extends his middle finger

Support for the Buffet plea...

ABC News polled the general public as 81% in favor of raising the top's rates

Im all for a reform of the tax code so that everybody is paying fairly... like maybe the presidents job czar who's company just opened up a plant in China while paying no taxes and recieving hundreds of millions in a check from the taxpayers. Lets do it. Tax reform that is, not put a target on the guys we need to hire unempolyed people. Plus this does nothing about loopholes it hits S1 corps which is small business. This plan was a decoy anyway the president never intended it to pass. It's nothing more than theatrics for the 2012 election.. that ought to make you as pissed as it does me..

Expecting the opposition to lead...

Well, we'll just chuckle on this one quietly.

Leaders are paid to lead. There is always opposition. I dont see the humor.

Doesn't like business...

In case this doesn't link, it's a google string Obama +pro business cooperation. There are only 89 million hits, surely more to consider than you're suggesting.

http://search.avg.com/route/?d=4cb5af55&v=7.008.031.001&i=23&tp=chrome&q=obama+%2Bpro+business&lng=en-US&iy=&ychte=us

Several 10s of millions of people are looking for a job and they cant find one. The real unemploymnet number is closer to 20% when you add in the folks that they are not counting. Business leaders including the US Chamber of Commerce are steadfastly in disagreement with you. In fact they have been jumping up and down screaming about the new regulations and HC laws and unknown tax liabilities that are crimping their ability to make the investment in more people. They are waiting for a recovery that never comes with the policies this president is forcing onto them.

The poster fears he'll be labeled racist...

Fears?
Ummm. If you read the thread you will see I was already called a racist. Now with you playing the race card, that makes 2 of you playing race.. Weak sauce homie.

I believes the poster listens to Frank Bluntz a bit to much. Has all the talking points but pesky little facts don't matter.

Frankly, I smoke blunts but I dont know who Frank Bluntz is bro...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It's better to take the medicine early, but we are unfortunately already way late in the game. The longer we wait the worse the inevitable will be. And the pain will fall on the younger generations shoulders. Do they deserve that?

But that's why we are monetizing our debt, devaluing the currency, running 0% interest rates, and bailing everyone out. It's much easier to print the debt away and pretend everything is fine than to make the hard choices to deal with it. The end result is much more catastrophic, but it's the easier road for politicians to take until the road runs out. At which point their political careers will be the last thing on their minds.

IMO, the banks won't make those choices until they're forced. I agree interest rates suck. I don't own any debt and don't get an advantage from low rates. But my fixed investment rates sure suck.

 

[Red Fang]

Why did they switch from wanting to raise the taxes for those making $200,000 to only those making $1 M or more? Everyone making 6 figures or more should pay more. I make well less than that and do just fine. Anyone see the wealthy people whining that they can't create jobs ridiculous? They aren't creating many if any jobs now, just shoveling their wealth into their pockets at a record rate while most of us suffer. This will not change if taxes are raised to spread the burden more fairly! They should be ashamed of themselves, greedy a-holes!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

not a single fact acknowledged, just doubles down on the talking points

not a single fact acknowledged, just doubles down on the talking points

There you go playing the race card.

Don't be a goon. I didn't even call DeMint racist. He has a way with poor word choice, kinda like W and his 'crusades' reference.

The reason the presidents policies recieved such acceptance level by the republicans is because they were shoved down their throats without debate in the dead of night with many polls showing the people didnt want it.

Interesting you reference none. Sorry your guy didn't make it to the dance but minority opposition doesn't call the shots. I gave you three very good examples of compromise and a willingness to work with congress. That's a far cry from suggesting you have to like it.

Since you like analogies, an analogy would be a rape victim being expected to go along with a rapist while he continues to have his way. You're damn right the republicans are going to fight back and give the same they recieved. Compromise was thrown away by this president in the first days of office so you can look straight back at him for the situation.

My uh, 'analogies' actually happened, not some explanation of attempted reason. You can ignore reality if you wish, Obama governs like a moderate republican. Like I said, you double down on the talking points and your rebuttals lie in the post you addressed.

No debate was had. Just because the democrats decided to put a few items everybody can agree on along with the destructive bill doesnt mean they compromised or were open to discussion or debate. FACT.

Zero facts. You've reference nothing more than a point of view.

In that bill you have allot of rubbish that is going to keep the job situation where it is... employers are saying so...

Yeah, a few but not like you're making out, Generalities are bs if they're more than a line or two. Adding a bunch of words to make several lines is more of the same.

The highest tax rate used to be 90%, of which folks actually paid ~50% after deductions and loopholes. Since the 1930s, the 5 most productive years of hiring happened when the top rate was 80% or higher. Nobody advocates those rates today but we're at lowest revenues since the 50s.

12 years of W's tax cuts hasn't produced jobs. But it's produced the largest pool of liquidity in employers hands since we kept record. More fact to whittle at yer spittle.

that along with Dodd/Frank and we are just about locked up solid. Wonderful. 16000 more IRS agents will be making sure we are complying with the new laws. Draconian... fascist... and just plain sick and Un-American is what I call that .

Yep, when we enforce policy we have to have enforcers. I guess you've already forgotten about systemic bank fraud.

The only reach out Obama is giving his opposition is when he extends his middle finger

Very interesting choice of words.

Im all for a reform of the tax code so that everybody is paying fairly... like maybe the presidents job czar who's company just opened up a plant in China while paying no taxes and recieving hundreds of millions in a check from the taxpayers.

How about 68% of our corporations doing the same thing? You see, when existing policy is bad it isn't something to point at one scapegoat. This is the result of 30 years of trade negotiations and 'czar' bs... is exactly that.

Lets do it. Tax reform that is, not put a target on the guys we need to hire unempolyed people. Plus this does nothing about loopholes it hits S1 corps which is small business. This plan was a decoy anyway the president never intended it to pass. It's nothing more than theatrics for the 2012 election.. that ought to make you as pissed as it does me..

Yeah, we get tired of politicians playing politics instead of compromising and getting things done. And there you go again, half asleep at the wheel.

Leaders are paid to lead. There is always opposition. I dont see the humor.

The humor is you only see what you're willing to look at.

Several 10s of millions of people are looking for a job and they cant find one. The real unemploymnet number is closer to 20% when you add in the folks that they are not counting. Business leaders including the US Chamber of Commerce are steadfastly in disagreement with you.

Historic economic statistics are against you (and the USCC.)

In fact they have been jumping up and down screaming about the new regulations and HC laws and unknown tax liabilities that are crimping their ability to make the investment in more people. They are waiting for a recovery that never comes with the policies this president is forcing onto them.

Yeah, that's the baloney in the room. When their orders go up they'll hire. And you already said the country's in bad shape. Not much pushing orders up. So we can go fix some shit that's crumbling and employ some people, generate some economy and get back on track. That's the philosophy of the guy that was elected (by the people.) We're certainly not gonna follow the ideas that lost an election. Sorry you aren't happy.

Fears?

Ummm. If you read the thread you will see I was already called a racist. Now with you playing the race card, that makes 2 of you playing race.. Weak sauce homie.

Nah, first you worried of being called a racist. Then, when you weren't (and neither was anyone else) you called me a racist. Well done, retard.

Frankly, I smoke blunts but I dont know who Frank Bluntz is bro...

Frank Luntz. He's the guy that says something long enough and it becomes the so-called truth. Rove just parrots Luntz. And every disciple follows his lead. The latest round of 'class warfare' was parroted by no less than 20 lawmakers making the cable tv and radio rounds.

But you're 'all for fair taxation'... yet you defend unfair taxes. Typical paradox when ideology never escapes the box.

 

[Anti]

Why did they switch from wanting to raise the taxes for those making $200,000 to only those making $1 M or more? Everyone making 6 figures or more should pay more. I make well less than that and do just fine.

My guess is that the reason for it is that there are a lot of small businesses that file as LLCs (LLCs file their income tax under the owner's name.) So the owner's company might make $250,000 a year even if the owner's take home pay is significantly less. Raising it up to the million dollar level will remove many thousands of small businesses from the plan and therefore the republicans won't be able to keep screaming "This is going to kill small businesses." Nobody feels bad for people who earn 1,000,000 or more a year, except perhaps the other people earning 1,000,000 or more.

Ronald Reagan (mr. super republican best president of all time according to fox news and their fans) equalized capital gains and income tax in the 80's.... at the time it was 28% for both, I believe. But since that time, we have allowed them to lower cap gains down to 15% while raising taxes on income up to the 35% levels.

I see no legitimate reason that they should not be equalized again. So repubs have a choice.... lower everybody with a job down to 15% taxes, or raise cap. gains up to 35%, or have both meet in the middle.

Personally, I think the jobs bill is pretty lame, from what I've seen of it.

I'd like to see a more direct government stimulus done with that money, even if some people scream socialism because of it. Let's spend the $500,000,000,000 training and employing people who are unemployed to rebuild our infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc.) and to work on clean energy tech. like installing solar panels on government buildings, improving bio-diesel and vertical gardening methods.

Spending the money directly employing people to fix the problems will be money much better spent than simply offering tax incentives to big companies to hire people.

I was also against the bank bailouts. If we were going to give them the money, it should've come with some strings (well, steel cables) attached, or we should've spent the money bailing out the individuals who were upside down, which would've ultimately stabilized the bankers without trashing the housing market.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

My guess is that the reason for it is that there are a lot of small businesses that file as LLCs (LLCs file their income tax under the owner's name.) So the owner's company might make $250,000 a year even if the owner's take home pay is significantly less. Raising it up to the million dollar level will remove many thousands of small businesses from the plan and therefore the republicans won't be able to keep screaming "This is going to kill small businesses." Nobody feels bad for people who earn 1,000,000 or more a year, except perhaps the other people earning 1,000,000 or more.

Forgive me if I misunderstand but we're talking individual 'income' tax rates. Doesn't matter a companies gross revenues or net profits. The individuals that exceed a negotiated ceiling in personal salary would be affected.

Now when/if we close the loopholes on 68% of US businesses, the company bottom line has something to crow about. But we already know that the idea they're waiting for something magical be handed to them by the feds isn't worth the napkin it's scribbled

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Don't be a goon. I didn't even call DeMint racist. He has a way with poor word choice, kinda like W and his 'crusades' reference.

Interesting you reference none. Sorry your guy didn't make it to the dance but minority opposition doesn't call the shots. I gave you three very good examples of compromise and a willingness to work with congress. That's a far cry from suggesting you have to like it.

My uh, 'analogies' actually happened, not some explanation of attempted reason. You can ignore reality if you wish, Obama governs like a moderate republican. Like I said, you double down on the talking points and your rebuttals lie in the post you addressed.

Zero facts. You've reference nothing more than a point of view.

Yeah, a few but not like you're making out, Generalities are bs if they're more than a line or two. Adding a bunch of words to make several lines is more of the same.

The highest tax rate used to be 90%, of which folks actually paid ~50% after deductions and loopholes. Since the 1930s, the 5 most productive years of hiring happened when the top rate was 80% or higher. Nobody advocates those rates today but we're at lowest revenues since the 50s.

12 years of W's tax cuts hasn't produced jobs. But it's produced the largest pool of liquidity in employers hands since we kept record. More fact to whittle at yer spittle.

Yep, when we enforce policy we have to have enforcers. I guess you've already forgotten about systemic bank fraud.

Very interesting choice of words.

How about 68% of our corporations doing the same thing? You see, when existing policy is bad it isn't something to point at one scapegoat. This is the result of 30 years of trade negotiations and 'czar' bs... is exactly that.

Yeah, we get tired of politicians playing politics instead of compromising and getting things done. And there you go again, half asleep at the wheel.

The humor is you only see what you're willing to look at.

Historic economic statistics are against you (and the USCC.)

Yeah, that's the baloney in the room. When their orders go up they'll hire. And you already said the country's in bad shape. Not much pushing orders up. So we can go fix some shit that's crumbling and employ some people, generate some economy and get back on track. That's the philosophy of the guy that was elected (by the people.) We're certainly not gonna follow the ideas that lost an election. Sorry you aren't happy.

Nah, first you worried of being called a racist. Then, when you weren't (and neither was anyone else) you called me a racist. Well done, retard.

Frank Luntz. He's the guy that says something long enough and it becomes the so-called truth. Rove just parrots Luntz. And every disciple follows his lead. The latest round of 'class warfare' was parroted by no less than 20 lawmakers making the cable tv and radio rounds.

But you're 'all for fair taxation'... yet you defend unfair taxes. Typical paradox when ideology never escapes the box.

How is supporting tax reform defending unfair taxes, You are unhinged and no longer making sense. Also, you have begun the personal attacks and name calling. retard? You use that one in front of me, my brothers or my cousins and you would be in some difficulties. I happen to have a down syndrom family member and I dont take kindly to that kind of language. Just like you pull that race card at the drop of a hat. HBT actually called me a racist, You played the race card, you didnt call me a racist and I never said you did. Geeze you are confused. I thought you were pretty sharp up until now. You are showing the ugly side of the left now. I guess real points make you nutty or something.

peace out Im done with you.