LED-HID equivalent outputs..?
- Thread starter Mountain_Monkey
- Start date
HipsterDoofus
Member
lol awesome pic
C
cannarelief
Here ya go Mountain
I read a lot of literature claiming a 90W LED UFO is a replacement for a 400W HPS and so on, 300W LED replaces 1000W HPS the list goes on on. What do you think your LED is the equivelant to? For instance I'm running a 357magnum which my equipment reads as having an output of 204-205W when on full spectrum mode. I have found that IMO it's the equivelant of around 400W HID, for Vegging purposes anyway as I've only just switched to 12/12 and haven't seen it's flowering potential.
I must say I'm a little surprised at how well it'a aquitted itself so far and the internodes on the plants are so tight it's very impressive. Even though visibly I can't see any light penetrating much past the canopy the lower areas of the plants are all in very nice shape so either something is getting through or the amount of food from the canopy alone is sutaining the plants which I don't think is happening as these plants are so densely packed into the small area they are in that even the canopy is just a mass of overlapping leaves.
Still there's no way I could say this thing is a 600W HPS replacement. Perhaps if I had a larger area to fit more plants into to test it it may prove me wrong in veg but the simple fact is this light doesn't have enough footprint to out perform a 600W in flower. I'm very interested in what all LED users here have to say regarding their respective units and the equivelant HID light it would take to match their lights.
I know there are quality factors involved also such as trichrome coverage etc. but I'm more interested in outright power/W ratio vs HPS/MH. Any and all comments and opinions would be highly appreciated as the myth of LEDs being super highly ultra efficient and that 200W of LED replaces 1000W of HID (which I have seen advertised) is rubbish and frankly I think it damages the reputation of this excellent technology.
If you could add which unit your using or if it's a DIY, the specs of the unit in your posts that would also be great as I believe it could be of some help to those of us thinking of building our own units as LED type/brand/output and color is highly relevant in such cases. Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this post, hopefully we'll see some opinions shared and the like as this topic is one that I believe is important to those wanting to switch to this technology and the clearer we can make the picture for them the better.
I've had others quote that an ES330 is probably the equivalent of more than 600W for veg but probably on par for flower but again less footprint. I'm surprised by the 357 actually. All my plants went into flower last week and lo and behold I have the problem every grower wants... all girls, again.
I stuck 14 plants into a 90cmX50cmX160cm tent (I usually grow 2 15 litre DWC plants in there so you can imagine the crush) thinking "it's winter, I'm going to have trouble keeping them warm like usual" as I usually attribute the high number of girls I get to warmth, humidity and the 14000K veg light I use. Still got all females except for one male, a Northern Dreams BX which is definitely going to stud the ladies that have had the misfortune of having to sit on the windowsill.
Spring is just starting here though so they should finish pretty well as they will get a decent amount of light. Anyways back to LEDs, (sorry ADHD tangents) the girls I have kept in the tent include one autoflower (I'm all outta bud and needed something) and the rest are crosses of mine and a few diesels and dieselX's and shit they look healthy. So I can't help but say this light is the equivalent of a 400MH for veg anyway with a bit less footprint and I'm looking forward to seeing what flower produces.
As far as a serious setup goes though I just don't have the funds to grab 2 ES330's to add to my 357 to stick into a 1.2mX1.2m tent so it's going to be eithe 2X250's or 2X400's with the LED in the middle, that should produce some serious bud, no lack of light penetration to complain about when I set that bad boy up properly and get it running.
Hey Pearl, sorry for the delay but here's some pics of the current grow which I've had to split aswell as a pic of the tiny tent and the 357.
These are pics of the one's that have been put out to window graze. I expect to yield all of 2 grams from each such is the light intensity this time of year. Anyway, I'm cloning almost all of the plants so if any of the one's left out on the window turn out having killer smoke I can grow more instead of smoking 3 joints worth then crying about how I should have kept it in the tent. I have no idea how these all fit as even with half removed it's still overcrowded in the tent.
As you can see there's very little room in there, imagine all the plants in there. That's how it was running, strangely it worked and the plants are all very healthy. The tent plants were photographed just before they were due to "wake up" that day and they look to be enjoying their sleep. The fruit auto will be ready in a week and a half I think and if it isn't it's getting the chop anyway, I need something... anything!!!
The LED isn't getting married despite appearances, I just added some fine material on top of a staionary tray and put it on the top to stop the fan getting dust all over them as these LED fans tend to do, at least in my filthy house. These plants have just been fed Flairform one part nutes with Canadian express regen-a-root and Flairform Gro-Storm added every second feed and Grotech Cal-Mag foliar fed once weekly. I haven't tested my PH for about a month now and ever since using these nutes it's not really necessary as they seem to blend perfectly with my tap water which is really nice.
The Cal-Mag would definitely require me to do so however so I just foliar spray them with it, keeps things simple and predictable. Overall I'd say this LED is a decent unit, nothing really special. The sellers still haven't replied to my emails regarding several things, most important is the fact that on one side 6 of the LEDs are out, dead by the look of it but probably just something easily fixed... if they would just learn that email accounts have a reply feature which allows communication. Mind blowing concept I know but they need to wrap their heads around it. Just another reason for a DIY panel.
I went to the hardware (warehouse) store yesterday and picked up 2 48W 5000K CFLs, cable, socket attachments and lamp holders which I assembled myself and by doing so was able to make the cables just the right length for this tent. So I now have an additional 96W of lighting added to the 205W of LEDs and I'll tell you now, there ain't going to be any penetration issues for these plants as they head into flower now. These 2 lights have made an enormous difference in the penetration and I'm running a good ventilation setup so there are no heat issues.
I like how adding the extra CFL seems to have made the LED light penetrate deeper under the canopy, even if it's a visual thing it signals that theres now plenty of light in there and not a single leaf is missing out so me getting a better yield is a fair assumption I believe. These 48W CFLs ( from: www.nelsonlamps.com.au ) are very, very bright and although I have them in 5000K I'm going to grab a couple of the 3000K's also and probably switch to them as flowering is really starting now after a week of 12/12 with only one plant yet to reveal itself. I'm 90% certain it's a girl though. The same company which makes these 48's also sells UVA "party" CFLs which I was having a look at after the constant and ongoing UV debating going on around here.
I chose not to however as I had forgotten which of the UV spectrum lights people were using and was thinking it was B not A. Here in Australia the 48W are the most powerful CFLs I have ever come across from a non horticultural seller/brand and I was happy to try them as at $13.00 a piece it's a lot cheaper than $100.00 for 80W Phillips 6400K CFLs and although I'm sure the quality difference is vast I have found that my 130W Fluoros are just too big for this grow and I thought another 100W of light brings me to a total of 310W including exhaust fan so I'm happy with my consumption and with the fact that I'm giving my plants a wider spectrum of lighting from the LED and CFLs and that the light is coming from multiple angles.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what I can pull from this grow as if I run a SOG using clones I'm sure I'll be able to pull close to 1G/W but we'll have to wait for that grow as this one is still a good 2 months from completion apart from an auto that's in there which will be coming down in 14 days give or take 3 either way. By which time my new 7TH Floor Da Buddha will be here so I can vape to my hearts content. I also read that the people I bought this LED from are releasing a "real" 357magnum which pulls what the name implies and they are pricing it at $1300 which is pretty darn steep for 357W of chinese built panel using Bridgelux diodes.
Really now, even if they were using the best Cree and Osram diodes that would still be steep considering their Chinese labour costs would equal the cost of one diode per employee/day... if they pay them well that is! If Lumigrow can hand build in the states with far superior components for almost esactly the same price then that $1300 is just more cream on top of the cashcake they've been baking with their original lights.
And they still haven't replied to my emails about the diodes that are dead on my light, that "bumper to bumper warranty" and "unmatched service" is really impressive... guess they're too busy counting notes to give a shit about the people who they are taking them from. Oh well, in every pond there's bound to be scum built up somewhere, fact of life. I really think I should quit sooking now it's getting old, thanks for bearing with me folks.
Sorry mate, been typing up my posts like this for too long to bother starting now. Paragraphs in my writing lost all relevance after university. I see posts here everyday where people can't spell the most basic of words so I'm sure we can survive without paragraphs, I can anyway and I've never had anyone comment on the ramblings I post so for now I'll stick to being the ADHD me... no need to fiddle. BTW, Is that "Power Armor rules" a reference to 40K or have another entity used the same description in a game or otherwise?
Honestly can't see myself changing any time soon as when I'm writing it's just coming out and that's it. Perhaps after I post I can change it to a more eye friendly format but it's going to be hit and miss at best considering I cant remember what day it is most of time, I'm likely to fix one in ten. If my posting suffers as a result then I guess I'm sorry for not putting things in a format that is easier to read.
Not being a prick or stubborn just honest and right now I seriously doubt if I'm going to be able to do much about it. I'll work on it and keep it in mind (although that's a crapshoot due to the meds I have to take) and I'll see what happens. I'm much more in control when I have bud and I'm a couple of weeks of an auto, then another 7 till the big chop so maybe try and post less till then I don't know... I appreciate the help guys, just I'm a very hard person to help due to the cocktail of pharms I have to take when not self medicated. Apologies to anyone I've offended.
I read a lot of literature claiming a 90W LED UFO is a replacement for a 400W HPS and so on, 300W LED replaces 1000W HPS the list goes on on. What do you think your LED is the equivelant to? For instance I'm running a 357magnum which my equipment reads as having an output of 204-205W when on full spectrum mode. I have found that IMO it's the equivelant of around 400W HID, for Vegging purposes anyway as I've only just switched to 12/12 and haven't seen it's flowering potential.
I must say I'm a little surprised at how well it'a aquitted itself so far and the internodes on the plants are so tight it's very impressive. Even though visibly I can't see any light penetrating much past the canopy the lower areas of the plants are all in very nice shape so either something is getting through or the amount of food from the canopy alone is sutaining the plants which I don't think is happening as these plants are so densely packed into the small area they are in that even the canopy is just a mass of overlapping leaves.
Still there's no way I could say this thing is a 600W HPS replacement. Perhaps if I had a larger area to fit more plants into to test it it may prove me wrong in veg but the simple fact is this light doesn't have enough footprint to out perform a 600W in flower. I'm very interested in what all LED users here have to say regarding their respective units and the equivelant HID light it would take to match their lights.
I know there are quality factors involved also such as trichrome coverage etc. but I'm more interested in outright power/W ratio vs HPS/MH. Any and all comments and opinions would be highly appreciated as the myth of LEDs being super highly ultra efficient and that 200W of LED replaces 1000W of HID (which I have seen advertised) is rubbish and frankly I think it damages the reputation of this excellent technology.
If you could add which unit your using or if it's a DIY, the specs of the unit in your posts that would also be great as I believe it could be of some help to those of us thinking of building our own units as LED type/brand/output and color is highly relevant in such cases. Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this post, hopefully we'll see some opinions shared and the like as this topic is one that I believe is important to those wanting to switch to this technology and the clearer we can make the picture for them the better.
I've had others quote that an ES330 is probably the equivalent of more than 600W for veg but probably on par for flower but again less footprint. I'm surprised by the 357 actually. All my plants went into flower last week and lo and behold I have the problem every grower wants... all girls, again.
I stuck 14 plants into a 90cmX50cmX160cm tent (I usually grow 2 15 litre DWC plants in there so you can imagine the crush) thinking "it's winter, I'm going to have trouble keeping them warm like usual" as I usually attribute the high number of girls I get to warmth, humidity and the 14000K veg light I use. Still got all females except for one male, a Northern Dreams BX which is definitely going to stud the ladies that have had the misfortune of having to sit on the windowsill.
Spring is just starting here though so they should finish pretty well as they will get a decent amount of light. Anyways back to LEDs, (sorry ADHD tangents) the girls I have kept in the tent include one autoflower (I'm all outta bud and needed something) and the rest are crosses of mine and a few diesels and dieselX's and shit they look healthy. So I can't help but say this light is the equivalent of a 400MH for veg anyway with a bit less footprint and I'm looking forward to seeing what flower produces.
As far as a serious setup goes though I just don't have the funds to grab 2 ES330's to add to my 357 to stick into a 1.2mX1.2m tent so it's going to be eithe 2X250's or 2X400's with the LED in the middle, that should produce some serious bud, no lack of light penetration to complain about when I set that bad boy up properly and get it running.
Hey Pearl, sorry for the delay but here's some pics of the current grow which I've had to split aswell as a pic of the tiny tent and the 357.
These are pics of the one's that have been put out to window graze. I expect to yield all of 2 grams from each such is the light intensity this time of year. Anyway, I'm cloning almost all of the plants so if any of the one's left out on the window turn out having killer smoke I can grow more instead of smoking 3 joints worth then crying about how I should have kept it in the tent. I have no idea how these all fit as even with half removed it's still overcrowded in the tent.
As you can see there's very little room in there, imagine all the plants in there. That's how it was running, strangely it worked and the plants are all very healthy. The tent plants were photographed just before they were due to "wake up" that day and they look to be enjoying their sleep. The fruit auto will be ready in a week and a half I think and if it isn't it's getting the chop anyway, I need something... anything!!!
The LED isn't getting married despite appearances, I just added some fine material on top of a staionary tray and put it on the top to stop the fan getting dust all over them as these LED fans tend to do, at least in my filthy house. These plants have just been fed Flairform one part nutes with Canadian express regen-a-root and Flairform Gro-Storm added every second feed and Grotech Cal-Mag foliar fed once weekly. I haven't tested my PH for about a month now and ever since using these nutes it's not really necessary as they seem to blend perfectly with my tap water which is really nice.
The Cal-Mag would definitely require me to do so however so I just foliar spray them with it, keeps things simple and predictable. Overall I'd say this LED is a decent unit, nothing really special. The sellers still haven't replied to my emails regarding several things, most important is the fact that on one side 6 of the LEDs are out, dead by the look of it but probably just something easily fixed... if they would just learn that email accounts have a reply feature which allows communication. Mind blowing concept I know but they need to wrap their heads around it. Just another reason for a DIY panel.
I went to the hardware (warehouse) store yesterday and picked up 2 48W 5000K CFLs, cable, socket attachments and lamp holders which I assembled myself and by doing so was able to make the cables just the right length for this tent. So I now have an additional 96W of lighting added to the 205W of LEDs and I'll tell you now, there ain't going to be any penetration issues for these plants as they head into flower now. These 2 lights have made an enormous difference in the penetration and I'm running a good ventilation setup so there are no heat issues.
I like how adding the extra CFL seems to have made the LED light penetrate deeper under the canopy, even if it's a visual thing it signals that theres now plenty of light in there and not a single leaf is missing out so me getting a better yield is a fair assumption I believe. These 48W CFLs ( from: www.nelsonlamps.com.au ) are very, very bright and although I have them in 5000K I'm going to grab a couple of the 3000K's also and probably switch to them as flowering is really starting now after a week of 12/12 with only one plant yet to reveal itself. I'm 90% certain it's a girl though. The same company which makes these 48's also sells UVA "party" CFLs which I was having a look at after the constant and ongoing UV debating going on around here.
I chose not to however as I had forgotten which of the UV spectrum lights people were using and was thinking it was B not A. Here in Australia the 48W are the most powerful CFLs I have ever come across from a non horticultural seller/brand and I was happy to try them as at $13.00 a piece it's a lot cheaper than $100.00 for 80W Phillips 6400K CFLs and although I'm sure the quality difference is vast I have found that my 130W Fluoros are just too big for this grow and I thought another 100W of light brings me to a total of 310W including exhaust fan so I'm happy with my consumption and with the fact that I'm giving my plants a wider spectrum of lighting from the LED and CFLs and that the light is coming from multiple angles.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what I can pull from this grow as if I run a SOG using clones I'm sure I'll be able to pull close to 1G/W but we'll have to wait for that grow as this one is still a good 2 months from completion apart from an auto that's in there which will be coming down in 14 days give or take 3 either way. By which time my new 7TH Floor Da Buddha will be here so I can vape to my hearts content. I also read that the people I bought this LED from are releasing a "real" 357magnum which pulls what the name implies and they are pricing it at $1300 which is pretty darn steep for 357W of chinese built panel using Bridgelux diodes.
Really now, even if they were using the best Cree and Osram diodes that would still be steep considering their Chinese labour costs would equal the cost of one diode per employee/day... if they pay them well that is! If Lumigrow can hand build in the states with far superior components for almost esactly the same price then that $1300 is just more cream on top of the cashcake they've been baking with their original lights.
And they still haven't replied to my emails about the diodes that are dead on my light, that "bumper to bumper warranty" and "unmatched service" is really impressive... guess they're too busy counting notes to give a shit about the people who they are taking them from. Oh well, in every pond there's bound to be scum built up somewhere, fact of life. I really think I should quit sooking now it's getting old, thanks for bearing with me folks.
Sorry mate, been typing up my posts like this for too long to bother starting now. Paragraphs in my writing lost all relevance after university. I see posts here everyday where people can't spell the most basic of words so I'm sure we can survive without paragraphs, I can anyway and I've never had anyone comment on the ramblings I post so for now I'll stick to being the ADHD me... no need to fiddle. BTW, Is that "Power Armor rules" a reference to 40K or have another entity used the same description in a game or otherwise?
Honestly can't see myself changing any time soon as when I'm writing it's just coming out and that's it. Perhaps after I post I can change it to a more eye friendly format but it's going to be hit and miss at best considering I cant remember what day it is most of time, I'm likely to fix one in ten. If my posting suffers as a result then I guess I'm sorry for not putting things in a format that is easier to read.
Not being a prick or stubborn just honest and right now I seriously doubt if I'm going to be able to do much about it. I'll work on it and keep it in mind (although that's a crapshoot due to the meds I have to take) and I'll see what happens. I'm much more in control when I have bud and I'm a couple of weeks of an auto, then another 7 till the big chop so maybe try and post less till then I don't know... I appreciate the help guys, just I'm a very hard person to help due to the cocktail of pharms I have to take when not self medicated. Apologies to anyone I've offended.
IwannatokeNbone
Member
led=useless shit, if u want to baby a one square foot grow and pull .5-one gram per watt fine but compairing a 400hps or 1000phsp to the equvilant in leds lights is a joke thats never gonna get funny. 600 dollars in lights to yeild a few ounces sounds like a asshole move, just go to cvs or rite aid and buy some cfls if u dont like hids, youll get the same yeilds as your leds n save 569 dollars.
whatever you say, but this doesn't look like useless shit to me...
here is what 600 watts of LEDs can do... doesn't look like no 1 sq foot grow pulling .5 gpw
pics belong to stra8outtaweed (member of another forum)
just keeping it real
Last edited:
^^^^ daaaayaamn!!!
IwannatokeNbone
Member
i stand corrected, after he (stra8outtaweed) sells that and his next harvest he will finally have paid for the lights, looks great.
you are correct about the expense. LEDs do cost a bit up front...
these aren't too bad... i think he has about 2K invested.
if you want to know more google 'LED GROW SHOW'
you will have to join that forum to see the pics however. i'd say its worth it.
IwannatokeNbone
Member
i luv the idea of the technology, i do grasp it and believe its gotta have some future esp when it gets cheaper but 2 grand in lights to harvest what a pound at best is kind of stupid it just is. i can do that for under 200 bucks, just bad business but its definately a cool set up.
Welthink 150W LED units are good!
Using 4 of them, aren't you?
I do have one of those for my Mother. Works good, noisy as all hell.
Ojo
Using 4 of them, aren't you?
I do have one of those for my Mother. Works good, noisy as all hell.
Ojo
check these two threads by Addicted2Grow. 600 watts of LEDs and 720 watts of LEDs. 1.3 lbs and 1.5 lbs respectively...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=208988
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=196980
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=208988
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=196980
those aren't my pics, read what i posted. belong to a guy named stra8outtaweed.
however, i do have two of them. just as soon as i can grow weed with them i will. right now i got one growing some peppers and stuff, link in my sig...
mine aren't any noisier than a PC...
They have 4 fans inside...
I guess we are toking gamer heavy duty PC!
LOL... they are good for the money.
Ojo
I guess we are toking gamer heavy duty PC!
LOL... they are good for the money.
Ojo
4 fans... 
i did not know that. all that is visible is one on each end. intake and exhaust...
but you are correct, they are a good value
mine is full spectrum, does well with seedlings, clones, vegging and flowering...
50% 660nm deep red
10% 630nm red
10% 600nm orange
10% 3500K warm white
20% 460nm blue
i did not know that. all that is visible is one on each end. intake and exhaust...
but you are correct, they are a good value
mine is full spectrum, does well with seedlings, clones, vegging and flowering...
50% 660nm deep red
10% 630nm red
10% 600nm orange
10% 3500K warm white
20% 460nm blue
Mountain_Monkey
Member
I'm seriously looking into those as I've kinda come to the realisation that they will give me a better spread of light than ES330's but the jury is still out. BTW, thanks for the advice been taking it in and I'll work on it, promise. Despite what my sig says the original meaning was in regards to people you don't like and following their ways so the sig still stands as you guys are all cool cats IMO. I'd hate to be in a situation where my thoughts and opinions aren't there for your perusal, dissection and critical evaluation so thanks for the heads up. Also, the K, wasn't me being a smartass. I just thought I'd thank you all for being nice about the issue instead of flaming me or whatnot.
I'm heading into second week of flower now and these plants are going to be very nice. I make this assumption based on the autoflower which has been flowered under the same light. I have grown a couple of auto's in the past and actually threw all but one away which I made BHO with. This one however will be going straight into the vape, It's covered in frost, from the buds to the fans this cute little wanna be tree is punching well above his weight in the trichrome department, one big + about LEDs= frost. I figure the amount of BHO I'll make from the trim on this harvest will be far more than I'd have made using HPS on a G/G basis of my trim.
I'll take some more pics later this week or early next for everyone to see what I mean, especially regarding the auto. Until then thanks all, and I hope you enjoy the pics to come. I'll be doing a weigh of my final pull under the 357 also and will also be adding my BHO amount for reference purposes as I imagine the extra frost from the LEDs will amount to a fair bir of oil even with my humble ability. I hope this is a little easier to read and a step in the right direction... M_M...
I'm heading into second week of flower now and these plants are going to be very nice. I make this assumption based on the autoflower which has been flowered under the same light. I have grown a couple of auto's in the past and actually threw all but one away which I made BHO with. This one however will be going straight into the vape, It's covered in frost, from the buds to the fans this cute little wanna be tree is punching well above his weight in the trichrome department, one big + about LEDs= frost. I figure the amount of BHO I'll make from the trim on this harvest will be far more than I'd have made using HPS on a G/G basis of my trim.
I'll take some more pics later this week or early next for everyone to see what I mean, especially regarding the auto. Until then thanks all, and I hope you enjoy the pics to come. I'll be doing a weigh of my final pull under the 357 also and will also be adding my BHO amount for reference purposes as I imagine the extra frost from the LEDs will amount to a fair bir of oil even with my humble ability. I hope this is a little easier to read and a step in the right direction... M_M...
it is a bit easier to read and i read the whole thing.
hint, hint: if you wanna hit enter twice instead of just once each time if would be even better
as far as the ES330's go compared to my WEX-C150, they have a lot more power. i don't know the spectrum of those, but i thought those were adjustable, right?
the 165 model is more comparable to mine i would suspect.
either way, i know a lot people really dig those 330's and 165's
can't wait to put mine into real action
Mountain_Monkey
Member
I gotcha, double tap. I love the ES330's and 165's but the length of those bar type arrays really opens up a few different options as far as spacing etc. goes. I don't know. Apparently the 330's are adjustable spectrum and they use a light dimmer type knob so you can really play with the red/blue output. I'm thinking I'll just go with the 357 with either 250's or 400's on either side in a 4x4 tent and move some to buy the LEDs although I'm not too fond of the moving bit... It'll take some serious thought time as to whether I do that or not.
