Jacky_Brown
Member
no pics?
15k sealed room start to finish building.
- Thread starter Dr.Dank
- Start date
Actualy with a water cooled a/c (mine atleast) water used for the cooling is pumped through the compressor to remove heat and dumps the heat in the next room...water is not trickled over the heat exchanger....
A true fully contained water cooled a/c works just like a normal a/c drawing water out the air, the diff is you have water being pumped in and out of the a/c compressor to remove the heat....so yes it does dehimidify your room, there is even an outlet for the condensation (water removed from air) to drip down the radiator and through the outlet tube and into a drain in the next room
So yes it does dehumidify but I still have a dehumidifier that I use in flowering....
Cooling the air is done by adding or removing water from the air...cooling the air relys on water exchange in the air to work properly and efficiently....
Swamp coolers are good in the desert and dry places because they add water to the air.
A/c's are better used in a humid climate because they draw water out the air.
Basicly the exchange of water moisture in the air is how "air coolers" work
A true fully contained water cooled a/c works just like a normal a/c drawing water out the air, the diff is you have water being pumped in and out of the a/c compressor to remove the heat....so yes it does dehimidify your room, there is even an outlet for the condensation (water removed from air) to drip down the radiator and through the outlet tube and into a drain in the next room
So yes it does dehumidify but I still have a dehumidifier that I use in flowering....
Cooling the air is done by adding or removing water from the air...cooling the air relys on water exchange in the air to work properly and efficiently....
Swamp coolers are good in the desert and dry places because they add water to the air.
A/c's are better used in a humid climate because they draw water out the air.
Basicly the exchange of water moisture in the air is how "air coolers" work
And as for the water used for cooling....I use tap water with no ill effects...but we don't have water meters here..lol
There's a few options availible to keep your machine in top shape
First you have to decide if you are going with open loop or closed loop system.
Open loop - you can use any source of water that is cold, the colder the water the better, colder water will just make the a/c more efficient. You could get your water from a well, a pond, tap water...ect. If you really want to be safe about keeping your piping clean and your a/c running smoothly then just install a pre-filter that they sell at home depot for like 20$, woks great I use them on my water cooled co2 machines....
Closed loop - this would mean you need a reservoir, and a chiller to keep the water cold...the best way to keep you machine running smooth is by adding glycol (prestone) to the reservoir, the will prevent rust, and prevent freezing if you live in colder areas...there is no harm for your garden in using glycol as long as the reservoir is used only for the a/c and not for watering the garden
There's a few options availible to keep your machine in top shape
First you have to decide if you are going with open loop or closed loop system.
Open loop - you can use any source of water that is cold, the colder the water the better, colder water will just make the a/c more efficient. You could get your water from a well, a pond, tap water...ect. If you really want to be safe about keeping your piping clean and your a/c running smoothly then just install a pre-filter that they sell at home depot for like 20$, woks great I use them on my water cooled co2 machines....
Closed loop - this would mean you need a reservoir, and a chiller to keep the water cold...the best way to keep you machine running smooth is by adding glycol (prestone) to the reservoir, the will prevent rust, and prevent freezing if you live in colder areas...there is no harm for your garden in using glycol as long as the reservoir is used only for the a/c and not for watering the garden
I've seen a guy build a "water cooled" a/c where he pumped well water up into a radiator in the grow room and had fans pulling air across the radiator. I though this was a fairly efficient design, but I would guess it would depend on how deep your well is.
The other type of water cooled a/c I've seen is where the whole compressor and both heat exchangers are in one enclosed unit and then it sends cold water to one or more mini-split type units inside the house/grow room. The brand I saw does have fans on the unit, so maybe the hot heat exchanger is air cooled and the cold heat exchanger is submerged in water that acts as the coolant for heat transfer. the cold water is then sent inside to another air cooled heat exchanger.
I guess they could build them the other way around too, where the hot heat exchanger is cooled with water (no fans) and the refridgerant is ran inside to an air cooled heat exchanger. Or they could build one that uses water in both aspects, water running back and forth from inside to the outside unit (as the coolant) and secondly to cool the hot heat exchanger instead of a big fan.
I think water cooled in any respect is a great idea, especially to cool the hot heat exchanger, this way you save electricity on running that huge fan. Also, if you could size your carbon filter or design an airflow manifold to use for the interior heat exchanger, you could also save electricity this way by running one less fan. Then your a/c amp draw would be exactly what the compressor uses and the circulation pump for the coolant(if you had that type, and you could even remove this if you ran the refridgerant to the interior coils instead of using water)
I'm just brainstorming here, nevermind me.
The other type of water cooled a/c I've seen is where the whole compressor and both heat exchangers are in one enclosed unit and then it sends cold water to one or more mini-split type units inside the house/grow room. The brand I saw does have fans on the unit, so maybe the hot heat exchanger is air cooled and the cold heat exchanger is submerged in water that acts as the coolant for heat transfer. the cold water is then sent inside to another air cooled heat exchanger.
I guess they could build them the other way around too, where the hot heat exchanger is cooled with water (no fans) and the refridgerant is ran inside to an air cooled heat exchanger. Or they could build one that uses water in both aspects, water running back and forth from inside to the outside unit (as the coolant) and secondly to cool the hot heat exchanger instead of a big fan.
I think water cooled in any respect is a great idea, especially to cool the hot heat exchanger, this way you save electricity on running that huge fan. Also, if you could size your carbon filter or design an airflow manifold to use for the interior heat exchanger, you could also save electricity this way by running one less fan. Then your a/c amp draw would be exactly what the compressor uses and the circulation pump for the coolant(if you had that type, and you could even remove this if you ran the refridgerant to the interior coils instead of using water)
I'm just brainstorming here, nevermind me.
G
Guest 150314
The reason so many people use thermoplus and swamp chillers in BC is because we don't have to pay for water...
You need cold water all year round though..
I would definitely suggest buying two 3.5 ton thermoplus units, I would be all over these things if I were on city water.
I can find barely used 5 ton thermoplus units on craigslist here for 1500-2000 lol
You need cold water all year round though..
I would definitely suggest buying two 3.5 ton thermoplus units, I would be all over these things if I were on city water.
I can find barely used 5 ton thermoplus units on craigslist here for 1500-2000 lol
budleydoright
Member
I've been kicking around the idea of building my own water cooled AC. I have succesfully built a water chiller out of a 6kbtu window shaker AC. This would be simply the opposite of the chiller.
What I have learned in my research is that most refrigerant systems can be, or are charged to work effeciently with 95 hot side (condensor). They do not require cold water (if you have it great) to work properly and effeciently.
A water cooled AC would be perfect if you have a swimming pool or hot tub that you can exchange the water with. This water would only pass through the AC coil, not through your lights or gardening equipment. I am thinking one of those small backyard pools in my warehouse would do the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do the math to work out if this will work or if my water would heat up to 120F. I live in the desert so a drain to waste system in out of the question.
I'm starting to think a 2ton chiller with a water chilled air handler may be a simpler more effecient setup as I can easily put the chiller up on the roof with the rez inside.
What I have learned in my research is that most refrigerant systems can be, or are charged to work effeciently with 95 hot side (condensor). They do not require cold water (if you have it great) to work properly and effeciently.
A water cooled AC would be perfect if you have a swimming pool or hot tub that you can exchange the water with. This water would only pass through the AC coil, not through your lights or gardening equipment. I am thinking one of those small backyard pools in my warehouse would do the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do the math to work out if this will work or if my water would heat up to 120F. I live in the desert so a drain to waste system in out of the question.
I'm starting to think a 2ton chiller with a water chilled air handler may be a simpler more effecient setup as I can easily put the chiller up on the roof with the rez inside.
longjohn119
New member
A geothermal unit run in the cooling mode would be the way to go here as far as efficient and/or stealthy operation (But a high initial cost running the in the ground water loop for the water) Let the ground pull the heat from the water and recycle it
Water exchange (dehumidifying) is not necessary to make a refrigeration system cool, the refrigerant absorbs the heat not the water in the air. The dehumification is in most cases a side benefit (And why they are called air **conditioners** and not just air coolers) Dehumidification happens any time the evaporator coil temperature is below the dew point temperature of the air going across the evap coil. The high end central air systems now have a dehumidification cycle that dehumidifies without cooling (much) This is done by using a two stage compressor (say 1 1/2 ton and 3 ton) but a normal coil (In this case 3 ton) when you use a 1 1/2 ton compressor with a 3 ton coil you get dehumidification without any cooling because there is only enough refrigerant volume going through the system to cool the evaporator coil below the dew point but not enough left over to absorb the heat from the air passing over the coil. (in actual practice you also cycle the compressor off and on with a special microrocessor controlled thermostat/humidistat, I simplified the operation to make it a bit easier to understand the theory behind it)
Another trick the more savvy guys do is like my setup at home, I have a lot of humidity in this area in the summer so I have a 3 ton condenser unit but a 3 1/2 ton evaporator coil which makes it dehumidify better, mainly because of the increased coil surface area. The downside is you can throw the charge charts 'out the window' because they are no longer accurate and so most techs can't charge the system properly, you have to have a bit of engineering knowledge and advanced math skills (Or a lot of experience doing it). It'll still work and the average user won't be able to tell the difference but you lose efficiency so it uses more electricity than it needs to (Maybe 5-10 bucks more a month but 5 bucks is 5 bucks) and I always strive for maximum efficiency from any system I work on. (Especially my own, I'm a founding member of the C.O.B. Club, Cheap Old Bastards)
BTW I'm a Commercial HVAC Technician and also a Senior level Electronics Technician that specializes in microprocessor HVAC controls and large building climate control systems.
Water exchange (dehumidifying) is not necessary to make a refrigeration system cool, the refrigerant absorbs the heat not the water in the air. The dehumification is in most cases a side benefit (And why they are called air **conditioners** and not just air coolers) Dehumidification happens any time the evaporator coil temperature is below the dew point temperature of the air going across the evap coil. The high end central air systems now have a dehumidification cycle that dehumidifies without cooling (much) This is done by using a two stage compressor (say 1 1/2 ton and 3 ton) but a normal coil (In this case 3 ton) when you use a 1 1/2 ton compressor with a 3 ton coil you get dehumidification without any cooling because there is only enough refrigerant volume going through the system to cool the evaporator coil below the dew point but not enough left over to absorb the heat from the air passing over the coil. (in actual practice you also cycle the compressor off and on with a special microrocessor controlled thermostat/humidistat, I simplified the operation to make it a bit easier to understand the theory behind it)
Another trick the more savvy guys do is like my setup at home, I have a lot of humidity in this area in the summer so I have a 3 ton condenser unit but a 3 1/2 ton evaporator coil which makes it dehumidify better, mainly because of the increased coil surface area. The downside is you can throw the charge charts 'out the window' because they are no longer accurate and so most techs can't charge the system properly, you have to have a bit of engineering knowledge and advanced math skills (Or a lot of experience doing it). It'll still work and the average user won't be able to tell the difference but you lose efficiency so it uses more electricity than it needs to (Maybe 5-10 bucks more a month but 5 bucks is 5 bucks) and I always strive for maximum efficiency from any system I work on. (Especially my own, I'm a founding member of the C.O.B. Club, Cheap Old Bastards)
BTW I'm a Commercial HVAC Technician and also a Senior level Electronics Technician that specializes in microprocessor HVAC controls and large building climate control systems.
NorCalHal1
New member
A 3 ton mini split will not handle 15 lights, even aircooled my friend. I know from experience.
why dontyou call thermoplus or send them an email asking where in california is the closest distributor to you
found this on thermoplus website:
For further information, please contact:
Product:
Brian Monk, V.P. Sales and Marketing
Dectron Internationale Inc.
Phone: 1-888-DECTRON
Email: bmonk@dectron.com
bmonk@dectron.com
Circul-Aire: info@circul-aire.com
Dectron: info@dectron.com
IWM: iwminfo@dectron.com
Refplus: info@RefPlus.com
Thermoplus Air: info@thermoplus.com
Tranzmetal: sales@tranzmetal.com
Investors:
Renmark Financial Communications
Michael Small: msmall@renmarkfinancial.com
Tina Cameron: tcameron@renmarkfinancial.com
Phone: 514-939-3989
www.renmarkfinancial.com
found this on their site as well....
Legal Name: Thermoplus Air Inc.
Operating Name: Thermoplus Air Inc.
Alternate Name: Keepkool
Mailing Address
262 Scott St
SAINT-JÉRÔME, Quebec
J7Z 1H1
Location Address
262 Scott St
SAINT-JÉRÔME, Quebec
J7Z 1H1
Telephone: (450) 436-7555
Toll Free Phone: (888) 336-7587
Fax: (450) 436-5970
Email: info@thermoplus.com
Website URL: http://www.thermoplus.com
Top
Contact Information
Adel Homsy
Title: Engineer
Area of Responsibility: Management Executive
Telephone: (450) 436-7555
Fax: (450) 436-5970
Email: ahomsy@thermoplus.com
Jacques Blanchard
Title: Vice President
Area of Responsibility: Management Executive Manufacturing/Production/Operations Research/Development/Engineering Customer Service Export Sales & Marketing Domestic Sales & Marketing
Telephone: (450) 436-7555
Fax: (450) 436-5970
Email: jblanchard@refplus.com
i would send a couple of these guys emails asking how to get one in cali, and where the distributors are....
its easier asking them directly than searching on the net because they want to sell it to you anyway, lol
also these 2
http://www.industrialinterface.com/keyword/refrigerator/water-cooled-air-conditioning/
http://www.frasers.com/web/frasers/all/Refrigeration+Equipment/p9/searchResults.jsf
found this on thermoplus website:
For further information, please contact:
Product:
Brian Monk, V.P. Sales and Marketing
Dectron Internationale Inc.
Phone: 1-888-DECTRON
Email: bmonk@dectron.com
bmonk@dectron.com
Circul-Aire: info@circul-aire.com
Dectron: info@dectron.com
IWM: iwminfo@dectron.com
Refplus: info@RefPlus.com
Thermoplus Air: info@thermoplus.com
Tranzmetal: sales@tranzmetal.com
Investors:
Renmark Financial Communications
Michael Small: msmall@renmarkfinancial.com
Tina Cameron: tcameron@renmarkfinancial.com
Phone: 514-939-3989
www.renmarkfinancial.com
found this on their site as well....
Legal Name: Thermoplus Air Inc.
Operating Name: Thermoplus Air Inc.
Alternate Name: Keepkool
Mailing Address
262 Scott St
SAINT-JÉRÔME, Quebec
J7Z 1H1
Location Address
262 Scott St
SAINT-JÉRÔME, Quebec
J7Z 1H1
Telephone: (450) 436-7555
Toll Free Phone: (888) 336-7587
Fax: (450) 436-5970
Email: info@thermoplus.com
Website URL: http://www.thermoplus.com
Top
Contact Information
Adel Homsy
Title: Engineer
Area of Responsibility: Management Executive
Telephone: (450) 436-7555
Fax: (450) 436-5970
Email: ahomsy@thermoplus.com
Jacques Blanchard
Title: Vice President
Area of Responsibility: Management Executive Manufacturing/Production/Operations Research/Development/Engineering Customer Service Export Sales & Marketing Domestic Sales & Marketing
Telephone: (450) 436-7555
Fax: (450) 436-5970
Email: jblanchard@refplus.com
i would send a couple of these guys emails asking how to get one in cali, and where the distributors are....
its easier asking them directly than searching on the net because they want to sell it to you anyway, lol
also these 2
http://www.industrialinterface.com/keyword/refrigerator/water-cooled-air-conditioning/
http://www.frasers.com/web/frasers/all/Refrigeration+Equipment/p9/searchResults.jsf
Last edited by a moderator:
lol
Bunz
Active member
recirculator
Member
Perhaps you are referring to climate master? climatemaster.com...they make geothermal heat pumps which work fine as a 1 way thru water cooled ac.
which brand you choose won't make much difference, they are mostly the same unit...as long as they use a scroll type compressor they do essentially the same thing, however the heat pumps can be used for heating (which I'm guessing you don't need). having two smaller units is helpful in case one fails you you can at least run half power until the other is fixed.
Happy Happy
organiclover
Member
excell out of BC - they have distributors in cali
The Architect
Member
What is the exact dimensions of the room? I saw 40 ft by 10 ft tall. What does that mean? Impossible to size an A/C without exact measurements. Also, will the lights be air cooled? If not, 5 tons won't be enough
i am also interested in setting up a watercooled AC 15 lighter. ive done the reg excel units and the stealth excel units and they work great. but i want my next project to be stealthier and ideally "greener." im looking at the kwikcool and thermoplus units. im going to be using well water most likely. the question is will I have to get a second well drilled to send the hot water line back into the aquifer? im trying to avoid using a chiller in some type of closed loop system. is the EPA going to want to inspect my hot water well return? im in a legal state of course. stealing city water is out of the question for me. thoughts?
