LED-HID equivalent outputs..?

[Mountain_Monkey]

I read a lot of literature claiming a 90W LED UFO is a replacement for a 400W HPS and so on, 300W LED replaces 1000W HPS the list goes on on. What do you think your LED is the equivelant to? For instance I'm running a 357magnum which my equipment reads as having an output of 204-205W when on full spectrum mode. I have found that IMO it's the equivelant of around 400W HID, for Vegging purposes anyway as I've only just switched to 12/12 and haven't seen it's flowering potential. I must say I'm a little surprised at how well it'a aquitted itself so far and the internodes on the plants are so tight it's very impressive. Even though visibly I can't see any light penetrating much past the canopy the lower areas of the plants are all in very nice shape so either something is getting through or the amount of food from the canopy alone is sutaining the plants which I don't think is happening as these plants are so densely packed into the small area they are in that even the canopy is just a mass of overlapping leaves. Still there's no way I could say this thing is a 600W HPS replacement. Perhaps if I had a larger area to fit more plants into to test it it may prove me wrong in veg but the simple fact is this light doesn't have enough footprint to out perform a 600W in flower. I'm very interested in what all LED users here have to say regarding their respective units and the equivelant HID light it would take to match their lights. I know there are quality factors involved also such as trichrome coverage etc. but I'm more interested in outright power/W ratio vs HPS/MH. Any and all comments and opinions would be highly appreciated as the myth of LEDs being super highly ultra efficient and that 200W of LED replaces 1000W of HID (which I have seen advertised) is rubbish and frankly I think it damages the reputation of this excellent technology. If you could add which unit your using or if it's a DIY, the specs of the unit in your posts that would also be great as I believe it could be of some help to those of us thinking of building our own units as LED type/brand/output and color is highly relevant in such cases. Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this post, hopefully we'll see some opinions shared and the like as this topic is one that I believe is important to those wanting to switch to this technology and the clearer we can make the picture for them the better.

 

[georgeforeman]

900-1000w of led replaces 1000w hps and you lost out on coverage and penetration.

 

[supermanlives]

its bullshit. my friend bought several units expecting to achieve the yields claimed. man was he pissed off. led are good but they aint no hid.when the price comes down more i will buy a few k worth. but i wouldnt be expecting too match an hid using lower wattage units.

 

[smokefrogg]

wall of text

from my experience with a few different panels so far, comparing to grows under a dinky 250 watt hps and a 400 watt hps, i feel that led by itself as a standalone light source should probably be just shy of 1:1 as long as the leds are good and strong with a nice spread and proper color frequencies...

there are some amazing examples here of people just killing it with high end leds and just a bit of supplemental side lighting though, i'm not a very skilled grower and am very new to this whole world so it could be that it's my own lack of skill...

i was trying to go all led, at the end of the day though the yield was not working out for me as well as under hps, i wound up actually spending money again on herb which i am trying to avoid, i had to set the hps back up again just to get yield as i keep the led only business in it's own separate tent for purely testing purposes at this point

i have seen a guy drop over 2000$ on 700 watt and 1200 watt chinese led panels, a lot of people rip on those, but that 700 could totally replace a 600 watt hid lamp, the 1200 could totally replace a 1000 watt hid, they did get hot but not as hot as hid lighting, those were amazing lamps that could grow some serious bushes, i am not about to spend that much on lighting at this point though haha, crazy mofo

 

[rives]

I grow for myself exclusively, so yield isn't of paramount importance to me. I enjoy experimenting, and have enough disposable income that I can justify (at least to myself) the cost of different types of lighting - it is a hobby for me. It's been quite a while since I put away my HID stuff, but I think that my Lumigrow ES330 has a substantial edge on a 400w HPS - my guess would be somewhere around midway between a 400 and a 600, perhaps a little less.

 

[Mountain_Monkey]

I've had others quote that an ES330 is probably the equivalent of more than 600W for veg but probably on par for flower but again less footprint. I'm surprised by the 357 actually. All my plants went into flower last week and lo and behold I have the problem every grower wants... all girls, again. I stuck 14 plants into a 90cmX50cmX160cm tent (I usually grow 2 15 litre DWC plants in there so you can imagine the crush) thinking "it's winter, I'm going to have trouble keeping them warm like usual" as I usually attribute the high number of girls I get to warmth, humidity and the 14000K veg light I use. Still got all females except for one male, a Northern Dreams BX which is definitely going to stud the ladies that have had the misfortune of having to sit on the windowsill. Spring is just starting here though so they should finish pretty well as they will get a decent amount of light. Anyways back to LEDs, (sorry ADHD tangents) the girls I have kept in the tent include one autoflower (I'm all outta bud and needed something) and the rest are crosses of mine and a few diesels and dieselX's and shit they look healthy. So I can't help but say this light is the equivalent of a 400MH for veg anyway with a bit less footprint and I'm looking forward to seeing what flower produces. As far as a serious setup goes though I just don't have the funds to grab 2 ES330's to add to my 357 to stick into a 1.2mX1.2m tent so it's going to be eithe 2X250's or 2X400's with the LED in the middle, that should produce some serious bud, no lack of light penetration to complain about when I set that bad boy up properly and get it running.

 

[pearlemae]

Hey MM, any chance of some pictures. I've been sitting on the fence as far as LED's are concerned. Its not about HID vs LED, cause I grow with HO CFL's and have been getting a nice return. But I would like to go for more power and amp it up. So pictures of the LEDs in action would certainly be great.

 

[rives]

Pearl, you might take a look at my album. I had been doing something pretty similar to your setup - I was using a GL80 tent, a 30"x30" scrog, and 330 watts of PL-L's in a homemade fixture. The pictures are after I went to a Lumigrow ES330, which I have been very happy with. It looks like you have enough headroom in your cabinet to go that way, you need to be able to keep the fixture about 12-15" minimum above the plants or you will bleach them white. I don't know what your stealth needs are, but these fixtures made more noise than I expected with the amount of air that they move.

 

[asde²]

380w led@medium current can produce as much light to the canopy as a 600w hps; add the better spd and 250w led might be enough

 

[Mountain_Monkey]

Hey Pearl, sorry for the delay but here's some pics of the current grow which I've had to split aswell as a pic of the tiny tent and the 357.



These are pics of the one's that have been put out to window graze. I expect to yield all of 2 grams from each such is the light intensity this time of year. Anyway, I'm cloning almost all of the plants so if any of the one's left out on the window turn out having killer smoke I can grow more instead of smoking 3 joints worth then crying about how I should have kept it in the tent. I have no idea how these all fit as even with half removed it's still overcrowded in the tent.



As you can see there's very little room in there, imagine all the plants in there. That's how it was running, strangely it worked and the plants are all very healthy. The tent plants were photographed just before they were due to "wake up" that day and they look to be enjoying their sleep. The fruit auto will be ready in a week and a half I think and if it isn't it's getting the chop anyway, I need something... anything!!! The LED isn't getting married despite appearances, I just added some fine material on top of a staionary tray and put it on the top to stop the fan getting dust all over them as these LED fans tend to do, at least in my filthy house. These plants have just been fed Flairform one part nutes with Canadian express regen-a-root and Flairform Gro-Storm added every second feed and Grotech Cal-Mag foliar fed once weekly. I haven't tested my PH for about a month now and ever since using these nutes it's not really necessary as they seem to blend perfectly with my tap water which is really nice. The Cal-Mag would definitely require me to do so however so I just foliar spray them with it, keeps things simple and predictable. Overall I'd say this LED is a decent unit, nothing really special. The sellers still haven't replied to my emails regarding several things, most important is the fact that on one side 6 of the LEDs are out, dead by the look of it but probably just something easily fixed... if they would just learn that email accounts have a reply feature which allows communication. Mind blowing concept I know but they need to wrap their heads around it. Just another reason for a DIY panel.

 

[Jacky_Brown]

I would say a good LED Grow Light (ledgrow.se)

Is about 200%

PowerLED-180 consume 180wattage, I push about 150g on this , (0,83g/w)

a Digital HPS consume 425-440 (magnetic) , I push about 200g on this. (0,47-0,45g/w)

The Hps need about 20-30w more fan power (more heat).. if you add this I push about 0,4g/w with hps.

 

[Jacky_Brown]

900-1000w of led replaces 1000w hps and you lost out on coverage and penetration.

Theres alot of grows out there, Pepole pushing 1-1,5g/w with LED in Soil.

Im pushing 0,8-1,3g/w with LED..

With Hps 0,4-0,6g/w

A 1kW consume about 1100w + more fans (more heat)

 

[Mountain_Monkey]

I went to the hardware (warehouse) store yesterday and picked up 2 48W 5000K CFLs, cable, socket attachments and lamp holders which I assembled myself and by doing so was able to make the cables just the right length for this tent. So I now have an additional 96W of lighting added to the 205W of LEDs and I'll tell you now, there ain't going to be any penetration issues for these plants as they head into flower now. These 2 lights have made an enormous difference in the penetration and I'm running a good ventilation setup so there are no heat issues. I like how adding the extra CFL seems to have made the LED light penetrate deeper under the canopy, even if it's a visual thing it signals that theres now plenty of light in there and not a single leaf is missing out so me getting a better yield is a fair assumption I believe. These 48W CFLs ( from: www.nelsonlamps.com.au ) are very, very bright and although I have them in 5000K I'm going to grab a couple of the 3000K's also and probably switch to them as flowering is really starting now after a week of 12/12 with only one plant yet to reveal itself. I'm 90% certain it's a girl though. The same company which makes these 48's also sells UVA "party" CFLs which I was having a look at after the constant and ongoing UV debating going on around here. I chose not to however as I had forgotten which of the UV spectrum lights people were using and was thinking it was B not A. Here in Australia the 48W are the most powerful CFLs I have ever come across from a non horticultural seller/brand and I was happy to try them as at $13.00 a piece it's a lot cheaper than $100.00 for 80W Phillips 6400K CFLs and although I'm sure the quality difference is vast I have found that my 130W Fluoros are just too big for this grow and I thought another 100W of light brings me to a total of 310W including exhaust fan so I'm happy with my consumption and with the fact that I'm giving my plants a wider spectrum of lighting from the LED and CFLs and that the light is coming from multiple angles. I'm really looking forward to seeing what I can pull from this grow as if I run a SOG using clones I'm sure I'll be able to pull close to 1G/W but we'll have to wait for that grow as this one is still a good 2 months from completion apart from an auto that's in there which will be coming down in 14 days give or take 3 either way. By which time my new 7TH Floor Da Buddha will be here so I can vape to my hearts content. I also read that the people I bought this LED from are releasing a "real" 357magnum which pulls what the name implies and they are pricing it at $1300 which is pretty darn steep for 357W of chinese built panel using Bridgelux diodes. Really now, even if they were using the best Cree and Osram diodes that would still be steep considering their Chinese labour costs would equal the cost of one diode per employee/day... if they pay them well that is! If Lumigrow can hand build in the states with far superior components for almost esactly the same price then that $1300 is just more cream on top of the cashcake they've been baking with their original lights. And they still haven't replied to my emails about the diodes that are dead on my light, that "bumper to bumper warranty" and "unmatched service" is really impressive... guess they're too busy counting notes to give a shit about the people who they are taking them from. Oh well, in every pond there's bound to be scum built up somewhere, fact of life. I really think I should quit sooking now it's getting old, thanks for bearing with me folks.

 

[FunkBomb]

Paragraphs would help a lot.

-Funk

 

[Mountain_Monkey]

Sorry mate, been typing up my posts like this for too long to bother starting now. Paragraphs in my writing lost all relevance after university. I see posts here everyday where people can't spell the most basic of words so I'm sure we can survive without paragraphs, I can anyway and I've never had anyone comment on the ramblings I post so for now I'll stick to being the ADHD me... no need to fiddle. BTW, Is that "Power Armor rules" a reference to 40K or have another entity used the same description in a game or otherwise?

 

[smokefrogg]

WALL OF TEXT

that's what i see first when i see your posts

not trying to be a dick, but it just makes it where i don't even want to read it...i have read them but it's not comfortable to look at, well except for your last one where you make an excuse for wall of texting us with your posts, i read the first line and a half and stopped there

just sayin...it makes it a lot easier for people to read what you're talking about if you break it up here and there

 

[GP73LPC]

that's the way most people see it unfortunately... ^^^

they simply will not read it in that format. i didn't read it either.

sorry monkey, i'm not trying to be a dick either, just trying to help..

 

[zymos]

Even a couple of line breaks make a HUGE difference in readability.

You WANT people to read your posts right...?

 

[Mountain_Monkey]

Honestly can't see myself changing any time soon as when I'm writing it's just coming out and that's it. Perhaps after I post I can change it to a more eye friendly format but it's going to be hit and miss at best considering I cant remember what day it is most of time, I'm likely to fix one in ten. If my posting suffers as a result then I guess I'm sorry for not putting things in a format that is easier to read. Not being a prick or stubborn just honest and right now I seriously doubt if I'm going to be able to do much about it. I'll work on it and keep it in mind (although that's a crapshoot due to the meds I have to take) and I'll see what happens. I'm much more in control when I have bud and I'm a couple of weeks of an auto, then another 7 till the big chop so maybe try and post less till then I don't know... I appreciate the help guys, just I'm a very hard person to help due to the cocktail of pharms I have to take when not self medicated. Apologies to anyone I've offended.

 

[smokefrogg]

i don't think anyone's offended, i'm not mad, i do hope you find a good led hid equivalent although i know that's going to cost some serious $$$ up front

one thing to consider is that you may need to add heat during winter, i was having major mold issues mostly due to low winter temperatures right when i got my lumigrow lamp, i wound up having to leave the heater on set to keep it at least 80~82, that coupled with a bit more airflow totally eliminated the mold issues. this is something i had never considered coming from a confined 250 watt hps grow, i was so used to trying to get any heat out! i had never ever had mold in that situation, lol a fun learning experience! (that 1:9 milk:water solution really does work btw ...)

about the paragraphs or lack thereof, you just hit that enter key now and then, that's all! it makes things so much easier to read for everyone watching on a computer screen, especially if it's at a higher resolution, it's a great habit to get into...imho...