Fixing your PH in coco pots...

[PoopyTeaBags]

Hey guys i dont know if i ran into a really low ph coco from canna or my meter was off for to long but i noticed some to all my plants starting to look alittle off. so i do what i always do flush and check ph and ppm's of pots....

so i start off at 5.8ph water in and im down to 5.1 coming out the pots... HOLY HELL!!

so im like shit lets flush for a couple days and get this right...

well im having a hell of a time just to get it up to 5.5 ph on the run off and the shit im pouring in is like 6.8 ph....

i dont know if this will hurt shit but i figure you need the ph coming out to be in the correct range meaning the higher ph i pour in the higher it should come out...

Is this the correct thinking? or am i gonna have some fucked up high ph coco when im done?

 

[psg1]

dunno about the rest, but i know that a ph meter can get a half point off pretty quickly if left uncalibrated. who knows how far yours is off at this point. that wouldn't explain the relative difference between in and out pH though, obviously.

i finally got around to calibrating mine recently and came to realize that it was reading .6 low. not the end of modern civilization of course, but certainly not optimal!

 

[jm420]

Whats your feed scedule ,if your growing like soil this mite be the prob .I'm learning myself in coco but what Ive been told is feed daily the example i'm learning is lucas 0-6-8 calmag and hygrozyme for veg 1 time a day every day

 

[RetroGrow]

That is bizzare, as it's usually the opposite. Going in, my PH in coco is set @ 5.5-5.8. Coming out, it's always higher. Even if your PH meter is off, run off PH still should still be higher than PH going in, so this doesn't make sense even if your meter is off.
How do the plants look, and how are your roots?
Is root rot a possibility? Sounds doubtful, but something is lowering your PH. Do you have any ammendments that might be lowering the PH?
This is a stumper, I must say.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

does anyone think feeding so high of ph will mess with anything? i dont have root rot plants looking like the ph is off lol.

my meter was off by a full point till who knows how long. it obviusly contributed to it and is now fixed...

 

[Miss Blunted]

^Stop killing your plants stupid

 

[RetroGrow]

That would explain it! Sounds like problem solved. Still don't understand why run off would be lower even with meter being off.
My run off is always higher
I think they will be fine by tomorrow.
Was going to ask if you possibly had a bad/old batch of nutes, but looks like you have everything under control.

 

[Miss Blunted]

retro my meter was low by a full point so if i been feeding by 5.4-5.8 that means it was actually 4.4 to 4.8.... so if i feed that a couple times it changes the ph in my coco so now its low which is why im feeding so high now... lol



post by PTB

 

[BigDawg]

yeah make sure you meter is calibrated monthly or sooner and don't feed too high. feed daily with about 10% run-off when plants have a solid root structure.

good luck

 

[zeke99]

does anyone think feeding so high of ph will mess with anything?

This is not the way to raise the pH of the coco.

The pH of the water does not raise or lower the pH of the coco (or soil mix, or peat moss, or whatever). The pH of the water, if out of whack, can cause the precipitation of chemicals (your ferts). The alkalinity in the water is what you should be concerned with here. It just happens to be in the newest issue of Greenhouse Grower magazine:

http://www.greenhousegrower.com/magazine/?storyid=4761

The most common problems found with irrigation water are high alkalinity, low alkalinity, low calcium, low magnesium, high boron and high sodium. These challenges can all be corrected with water-soluble fertilizers. But a clear understanding of the situation must be in place so that while addressing one issue, another is not created.

Water pH is listed on test results but has little if any effect on soil pH.

[..]

More than any other factor, growers need to know and address total alkalinity of the water supply to maintain proper soil pH levels. Instead of looking at alkalinity as the parts per million (ppm) of calcium carbonate in the water and discussing the number of positive and negative hydrogen ions involved, let’s look at alkalinity as the amount of lime in a water supply. Simply said, the higher the alkalinity in a water source, the more “liming” effect will occur. More than likely, soil pHs will rise.

The desired alkalinity range in a water source is 60 to 120 ppm. At this level, the water is buffered enough to help protect the soil from sudden or rapid pH swings. Growers with water in this range should be successful managing soil pH by using most commercial soils designed for their crops and a fertilizer blend that is at or near neutral in pH response.

However, water supplies in nearly 18 percent of the United States have alkalinity levels lower than the recommended 60 to 120 ppm total alkalinity range...cont.​

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

should i have stated i use RO?? and not in soil?

im pretty sure i got it figured.

 

[audiohi]

Yea man... had the same problem. Just feed with 5.8 again and everything will go back to normal relatively quickly. I calibrate rather often now!

 

[RetroGrow]

The pH of the water does not raise or lower the pH of the coco

Hmmmm....yes it does! That's exactly what lowers or raises the PH of the coco, although we are really talking about the PH of the nutrient solution, which is water + nutrients. Ideal PH in coco is 5.8. Run off PH will be a bit higher than PH going in. That's why I like to use a range of PH going in between 5.5-5.8. Different nutrients are readily absorbed at slightly different PH #s. Ideally you want a range of different PHs as it were, ie, 5.5 one day, 5.8 another.

 

[zeke99]

Hmmmm....yes it does!

No it doesn't.

With all due respect, that's a myth perpetrated by people that while they might not how to grow nice plants, don't necessarily understand the science behind the growing. And it's more than likely they're using a a higher quality water supply, which makes it easy to get caught up in the myth....

I might just be a random person posting on the internet. But do you think Greenhouse Grower, an industry magazine, publishes false information?

How about these sources?

From Bill Argo, who literally wrote the book on pH management for container grown crops. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're talking about growing crops in containers, right?

http://www.firstrays.com/PDF/Part 2 - Water quality.pdf

Understanding pH management and plant nutrition
Part 2: Water quality
Bill Argo, Ph.D

When it comes to managing the pH of a substrate, the alkalinity concentration has a much greater effect than does water pH.

To compare the effect of water pH or alkalinity on the ability to raise pH (or neutralize acid) in a medium, 50 ppm alkalinity (which is a low alkalinity) would be similar to having a water with pH 11 (i.e. an extremely high pH). A water with a pH of 8.0 would have the same effect on substrate pH as an alkalinity concentration of only 0.05 ppm (i.e., almost nothing).​

From the University of Massachusetts Greenhouse Crops program:

http://extension.umass.edu/floriculture/fact-sheets/water-quality-ph-and-alkalinity

Recently, some growers have expressed concern about the "high pH" of their irrigation water and its potential adverse effects on plants. The purpose of this article is to allay some of these concerns by pointing out the difference between "high pH" and "high alkalinity".

Alkalinity and pH are two important factors in determining the suitability of water for irrigating plants. pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in water or other liquids. In general, water for irrigation should have a pH b etween 5.0 and 7.0. Water with pH below 7.0 is termed "acidic" and water with pH above 7.0 is termed "basic"; pH 7.0 is "neutral". Sometimes the term "alkaline" is used instead of "basic" and often "alkaline" is confused with "alkalinity". Alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to neutralize acidity. An alkalinity test measures the level of bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides in water and test results are generally expressed as "ppm of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)". The desirable range f or irrigation water is 0 to 100 ppm calcium carbonate. Levels between 30 and 60 ppm are considered optimum for most plants.

[..]

In most cases irrigating with water having a "high pH" ( 7) causes no problems as long as the alkalinity is low. This water will probably have little effect on growing medium pH because it has little ability to neutralize acidity. cont.​

 

[zeke99]

should i have stated i use RO?? and not in soil?

im pretty sure i got it figured.

That you're not in soil doesn't matter. (by the way people use coco as a base for making 'soil') We're talking about the water here. And regardless, simply pouring water through an unsaturated plant and measuring the runoff isn't always going to be provide an accurate measurement of the solution pH in the medium.

Now if in fact you really do need to raise the pH of the coco, which specifically means to neutralize acid in the coco solution, than it's important for you to understand that RO water has almost no alkalinity, i.e. acid buffering capacity.

 

[MIway]

This is interesting zeke99... thanks for the links... I'll hit you with some rep when by karma bank recharges bro... can't even vote anymore... lol


There's a companion thread in teh infirmary that was postin on... and what you are saying regarding alkalinity vs pH resonated with my line of thinking. Been recommending using Dolomite Lime for a buffer against the acidity of the coir/medium itself, but to use finely ground (kinda soluble) DL in solution to work into the coir. Basically, from your info... this would be counteracting the acidity w/in the coir, by using an alkaline solution mix. Please correct me if I'm wrong here, as this would appear a 'better' solution by the info you posted.

On an aside, I'm not thinking the coir itself is acidic, like peat is... coir seems to be rather neutral & runs almost like an inert media, where you can control what's going on in there through solution mixes. My thoughts are the the elements that the coir has been building up through it's normal life cycle & processing is what's throwing the pH of the run-off so low... and until that shit gets flushed out & rebalanced with usable ions, it effects the acidity of the solution... and inside the medium.

Anywho... curious to get your thoughts on this. peace

 

[praisehim.]

teabags- you can play with the ph, anywhere from 5.5 to 6.4. when i notice things start yellowing i bump up the ph to 6.0 for a few days, then back to 5.8 when they look right.

 

[RetroGrow]

With all due respect, that's a myth perpetrated by people that while they might not how to grow nice plants, don't necessarily understand the science behind the growing.

I don't even know what that means, but no matter.
We're talking apples & oranges. You are talking about irrigation of fields & greenhouses using tap water on various different crops in soil.
We are talking about a specific plant, cannabis, and how to adjust the nutrient solution (water & fertilizer) in an inert medium (coco).
Cannabis is happy at a specific PH in coco, namely 5.8, give or take a few tents either way.
Most (many?)of us are using bottled water, or a mixture of bottled & tap, depending on the alkalinity of the tap water.
We adjust the PH of the nutrient solution going in, and running off, and noting the changes, if any.
If it's out of the desirable range, we make adjustments to avoid lockouts. But an experienced grower can see if somethings amiss just by looking at the plants. If the plants are happy, we are good. If not we make the necessary adjustments. Also, experienced growers regularly flush their plants with RO water, to prevent the build up of salts.
And so, while your post might be of interest to a greenhouse owner, or a PHD trying to sell pamphlets for exorbitant prices, it doesn't have much relevance in this thread about one person's issues in coco due to a miscalibrated PH pen. After he adjusts his pen and the PH of his nutrient solution, his plants will be happy and he will be happy.
Our plants have a life span of approximately 3 months, give or take, and so we only have to keep them happy for that time, which is easily done by keeping the PH of the nutrient solution in the desirable range.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Regardless whats printed in a magazine i fixed my pots this way and have on many occasions... my pots were around 4.8ph and now they are sitting at 5.7 they had problems now they dont... id say it works....


i also found that the canna coco was very acidic this round pouring in at 6.2 i was getting a 5.3 runoff with strait canna out the bag....

 

[jgrow]

So to fix your problems poopy you just flushed with a higher ph?