philcollins
Active member
I think, maybe, i will try a MH for flower...as they have more PAR energy....and are cheaper than hps. thoughts?
Do lumens really matter?
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pezthetoker
Member
Do it and you will not regret it. Most people will just repeat what they have heard/read and say to use red, but try the blue for yourself and you will see increased resin production and happier plants overall. I reccomend Ushio super-blue. It has plenty of red.
IwannatokeNbone
Member
i agree with the above post , even when u add a blue cfl to a small hps grow the plants perk up instantly, they crave blue thats all i know.
IwannatokeNbone
Member
hps from the start, lanky strecthy less then ideally healthy plants, hps for flower= good yeild but lacking in resin outpoot. par light u say with hps= dont think so , they max for the most part in yellow, and your blue enhanced bulbs max in green, then yellow. I recomend mh for seedling up untill strech in flower is over, then hps, then back to mh the last 2 weeks of ripening for max resin production, thats what seems to work best.
id say the in the begining hps is horrible, ive had plants that just wont grow right without blue light added in early seedling,veg stages under one, horrible performance.
id say the in the begining hps is horrible, ive had plants that just wont grow right without blue light added in early seedling,veg stages under one, horrible performance.
when i used mh ,plants were shorter and had more resin . but yield was a bit lower
I think your post should be titled "Does color temperature really matter?". Try it and see what happens if you are so inclined.
WFF
WFF
This is an old thread, but it concerns what I am doing so why start a new one?
I am doing a side by side, first with CMH & no HPS, and second with 1:1 HPS:MH. Stand alone HPS poisons the plants so severely I no longer test with it.
Going into week 5 the CMH plants have spikey pistols, each hair straight and noticably cone shaped. Cola's have spiral's blending into parallel sides and rounded tops, like coreless carrots.
The HPS plants have wavey pistols, the hairs like egret feathers, long and wispy. Cola's are long and tapered, not as pointy as christmas trees.
30" CMH vs 36" HPS. Not a lot taller, but taller.
These are Sativa clones. Indica's grow differently! Do not apply this to indica.
CMH plants are green and white. Nice dark green with those fat spikey hairs a bright white.
HPS plants are dull green shading into yellow, a few leaves have gone completely yellow within the last 2 days. The hairs are white, but being thinner they do not stand out, just plain old white. Or perhaps the hairs are dwarfed by the pure size of the buds.
At 5 weeks the HPS room makes bigger buds, not half again as big, but almost. Enough difference to see without guessing.
Almost 5 more weeks to go. Then I will be able to smoke buds from each back and forth for days. Will 6 grams of HPS get me stoned longer than 4 grams CMH? THAT is the question I want answered.
:kitty:
I am doing a side by side, first with CMH & no HPS, and second with 1:1 HPS:MH. Stand alone HPS poisons the plants so severely I no longer test with it.
Going into week 5 the CMH plants have spikey pistols, each hair straight and noticably cone shaped. Cola's have spiral's blending into parallel sides and rounded tops, like coreless carrots.
The HPS plants have wavey pistols, the hairs like egret feathers, long and wispy. Cola's are long and tapered, not as pointy as christmas trees.
30" CMH vs 36" HPS. Not a lot taller, but taller.
These are Sativa clones. Indica's grow differently! Do not apply this to indica.
CMH plants are green and white. Nice dark green with those fat spikey hairs a bright white.
HPS plants are dull green shading into yellow, a few leaves have gone completely yellow within the last 2 days. The hairs are white, but being thinner they do not stand out, just plain old white. Or perhaps the hairs are dwarfed by the pure size of the buds.
At 5 weeks the HPS room makes bigger buds, not half again as big, but almost. Enough difference to see without guessing.
Almost 5 more weeks to go. Then I will be able to smoke buds from each back and forth for days. Will 6 grams of HPS get me stoned longer than 4 grams CMH? THAT is the question I want answered.
:kitty:
after having done a few runs with, 150w hps, cfls, t5 and mh.
i think you want a bit of blue in flowering and possibly some uvb.
i agree with what was said before, 6500k mh for example, its biggest spike in output is green, useless except for making plants look good.
i think you´d want a mh or cfl with emphasis on blue. perhaps over 7500k though i have not tried those myself, just the 6500k and below.
or say 2700/3000k cfl or mh, that way the spike would be in yellow, but with lots of blue too.
i dont find greater resin production with mh, at least not with the glasscover, which is recommended.. i find some greater resin production with cfls, 2700k for example, have not tried flowering with 6500k (huge spike in green too)
plants are much more sensitive to blue, so you need much less of it.
with 60/40 hps/mh, i find that leaf production is increased by alot, plants look more natural, but buds are not bigger and i get a shitload of leaves along with.
after my experiences, im thinking of adding maybe 2-4 32w cfls to my 600w hps, perhaps even just 2700k.
though my hps has some added blue. (the light is more leaning towards white than the usual heavy amber tone of hps, its yellowwhite my hps) forget the brand though lol
i find the results of adding a 400w mh to my 600w hps, not satisfying enough to justify the added heat, plus 400w mh bulbs are actually more expensive than 600w hps and dont last as long.
i particularily dont recommend regular 6500k mh bulbs, its obvious they have alot of green in them and the light is pale.
looks glorious combined with the hps though, like afternoon in the tropics and with the added t5 2700k it looked like noon.
but like i said, mostly elongated leafstructure and lots more of leaf.
happier and healthier plants though, so therefore i intend to add cfls.
but i see no need to go overboard,just a bit of blue.
i think you want a bit of blue in flowering and possibly some uvb.
i agree with what was said before, 6500k mh for example, its biggest spike in output is green, useless except for making plants look good.
i think you´d want a mh or cfl with emphasis on blue. perhaps over 7500k though i have not tried those myself, just the 6500k and below.
or say 2700/3000k cfl or mh, that way the spike would be in yellow, but with lots of blue too.
i dont find greater resin production with mh, at least not with the glasscover, which is recommended.. i find some greater resin production with cfls, 2700k for example, have not tried flowering with 6500k (huge spike in green too)
plants are much more sensitive to blue, so you need much less of it.
with 60/40 hps/mh, i find that leaf production is increased by alot, plants look more natural, but buds are not bigger and i get a shitload of leaves along with.
after my experiences, im thinking of adding maybe 2-4 32w cfls to my 600w hps, perhaps even just 2700k.
though my hps has some added blue. (the light is more leaning towards white than the usual heavy amber tone of hps, its yellowwhite my hps) forget the brand though lol
i find the results of adding a 400w mh to my 600w hps, not satisfying enough to justify the added heat, plus 400w mh bulbs are actually more expensive than 600w hps and dont last as long.
i particularily dont recommend regular 6500k mh bulbs, its obvious they have alot of green in them and the light is pale.
looks glorious combined with the hps though, like afternoon in the tropics and with the added t5 2700k it looked like noon.
but like i said, mostly elongated leafstructure and lots more of leaf.
happier and healthier plants though, so therefore i intend to add cfls.
but i see no need to go overboard,just a bit of blue.
Yeah, know about that blue, I still run an aquarium bulb in veg for the first couple weeks until I have the nodes I want. This grow I swapped it out yesterday, the indica have 6 sets of branches 1/2 inch apart on 6 inch plants. Now there is a 300 watt halogen stretching them out, at 10" I take the bottom 2 branches for clones and put the rest into the budroom.
These are just the overhead lights, the surround is made of T8 fixtures at 5000K, 16 tubes worth, they stay the same regardless and would veg the entire cycle but early node growth is too stretched for my taste. The 450nm blue 50/50 full spectrum saltwater coral growth HID bulbs slow the stretch an incredible amount. But in the budroom the standard MH gives better results.
But I am testing for total THC, does the increased potency everybody talks outweigh the reduced yield? Yada yada yada, I will have both and smoke both and will know.
These are just the overhead lights, the surround is made of T8 fixtures at 5000K, 16 tubes worth, they stay the same regardless and would veg the entire cycle but early node growth is too stretched for my taste. The 450nm blue 50/50 full spectrum saltwater coral growth HID bulbs slow the stretch an incredible amount. But in the budroom the standard MH gives better results.
But I am testing for total THC, does the increased potency everybody talks outweigh the reduced yield? Yada yada yada, I will have both and smoke both and will know.
IwannatokeNbone
Member
no but they make for good sales pitch^^^^
nope. Lumens are for humans. Make a difference between quality and quantity. You need quantity (lots of photons - like spurr said) for photosynthesis - the efficiency for photosynthesis is about the same for blue and red photons, however....
- Blue light contains more energy than red light, so you need more energy to make blue light
- MH lamps are not as efficient as HPS lamps in producing photons
It is not that simple though.
The spectrum of the light is very important for many plant processes and it controls morphogenesis of your plant. Specifically in generative phase a good spectrum is important for a good production. Blue light is also important for maintaining your photosynthetic system.
So basically HPS is good for high yield but not so good for your plant shape and health, MH is good for plant development but not so much for high yield. The fact that you can get good yields under MH shows that the quality of the light is important for achieving a good yield too.
See it from a greenhouse perspective: They use HPS for extra lighting. The quality they get from the sun, the quantity the get from adding extra HPS. However, if there is not enough sunlight and HPS is the main source of light them quality is less. In greenhouses they talk about stress as a result of too much red light. In general you want about 8-10% blue light as a minimum for great plant development. HPS does not provide that.
It is a mistake to think that green light doesn't have any effect on the plant. A pltant thrives best with a full continuous spectrum, including green light.
If you look at what is the most efficient light at the moment then it is clearly HPS. Cheap, long life, but a bad color spectrum. (C)MH has a better color spectrum but much less output per watt than a HPS lamp.
Old school growers in Europe always used a combination of 400W MH and 600W HPS for the best quality flowering. But it is hard to combine one MH and one HPS in a small room, it works best in larger rooms. Efficiency is a bit less, but quality is really good.
Personally I prefer MH for veg and if possible MH/HPS combo for flowering. The fact that a MH does not output that much photons is compensated by the 18 hours of light you give to your plants in veg (read about DLI).
- Blue light contains more energy than red light, so you need more energy to make blue light
- MH lamps are not as efficient as HPS lamps in producing photons
It is not that simple though.
The spectrum of the light is very important for many plant processes and it controls morphogenesis of your plant. Specifically in generative phase a good spectrum is important for a good production. Blue light is also important for maintaining your photosynthetic system.
So basically HPS is good for high yield but not so good for your plant shape and health, MH is good for plant development but not so much for high yield. The fact that you can get good yields under MH shows that the quality of the light is important for achieving a good yield too.
See it from a greenhouse perspective: They use HPS for extra lighting. The quality they get from the sun, the quantity the get from adding extra HPS. However, if there is not enough sunlight and HPS is the main source of light them quality is less. In greenhouses they talk about stress as a result of too much red light. In general you want about 8-10% blue light as a minimum for great plant development. HPS does not provide that.
It is a mistake to think that green light doesn't have any effect on the plant. A pltant thrives best with a full continuous spectrum, including green light.
If you look at what is the most efficient light at the moment then it is clearly HPS. Cheap, long life, but a bad color spectrum. (C)MH has a better color spectrum but much less output per watt than a HPS lamp.
Old school growers in Europe always used a combination of 400W MH and 600W HPS for the best quality flowering. But it is hard to combine one MH and one HPS in a small room, it works best in larger rooms. Efficiency is a bit less, but quality is really good.
Personally I prefer MH for veg and if possible MH/HPS combo for flowering. The fact that a MH does not output that much photons is compensated by the 18 hours of light you give to your plants in veg (read about DLI).
