Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[farmhouse cat]

FC - just adding up what you have listed - 17 amps (4kw@240) in lights, 26 amps in pump load and somewhere around 10-12 amps for a mini-split, you have already shot past a 60 amp service. Remember that you don't want to exceed 80% of the capacity for continuous service, so that means 48 amps on a 60 amp service. Total up everything that you know the specs on, multiply by 1.25 for the 80% factor, and then give it some headroom to grow for things that you haven't considered yet. Remember to tell the electrician that you need dedicated circuits for each of the big pumps that you mentioned.

*edit* I've never had anything to do with a mini-split, but in my experience 240v is far more likely to be what you need in a residential setting. I would be surprised if you had 208.

Thanks for the help Rives. I really appreciate it. Im lost when it comes to the wiring stuff. The house is older and only has a 100amp main. But i am also having the main upgraded to 200 amps. I thought that doing a 60 amp to the garage would leave an extra 40 amps for the main house after the main upgrade.

But maybe a 100 sub might be better?

I could be wrong about the pumps. Here is the specs for the pump.

"
Electric Shallow Well water pump 1.6 HP 1200W Suction Height 27ft Qmax 3800 Lite Per Hour That is 1303Gallon Per Hour

Transfer water from wells, up moderate slopes and to the upper stories of buildings.
Braided steel tank hose, ,Steel pressure tank with gauge
Self-priming, Thermal protection 18" x 10 " x 19 " (L x W x H)


Specifications:

• Power Voltage: 115V / 60Hz​
• Above-Ground / On-Ground​
• 1.6HP Long Lasting Motor​
• Noise 68dB
• 1" Female Pipe Thread Connections Suction & Delivery Fitting​
• Max Suction Height 27ft. (8m)
• Pump Lift: 50mm 164ft
• max pressure 72PSI
• Max Head 35m
• Max Flow (63L/min)
• 4Ft Long Power Cord​
• Fluid Temperature Up To 35 Deg C..
• Maximum Ambient Temperature 35 Deg C.
• Drain Plug For Easy Maintenance Of Pump Corrosion-Proof​
• COLOR MAY VARY​
• Transparent Cover Allows You To See When Basket Needs To Be Clean​

And here is the specs for the 14000BTU mini split.

http://www.acwholesalers.com/Mitsubishi_Mr_Slim_mitsubishi_air_conditioner_p/11293.htm




Technical SpecificationsCooling Capacity14,000 BTU Efficiency21 SeerVoltage 208-230 1 PhaseLine Set Size1/4 & 1/2Max Breaker Size15 AmpMaximum Line Set Size/Maximum Rise65ft/40ft


Thanks in advance to any of you guys who know what i should do!​

 

[Guest 18340]

I was told to have the electrician run a dedicated 15amp 208v circuit to the outside with a disconnect for the future mini split? Does that sound correct?

Yes.
I'm running that same exact unit. You're gonna love that thing!
*EDIT*
Just read that you want to run 4x1000 watts? Then you'll need a bigger AC.
A friend runs the same unit, in a 11x7 sealed room with 3600 watts (2x1000 & 2x600) uncooled and his unit runs full blast the whole time the lights are on.

 

[farmhouse cat]

Yes.
I'm running that same exact unit. You're gonna love that thing!
*EDIT*
Just read that you want to run 4x1000 watts? Then you'll need a bigger AC.
A friend runs the same unit, in a 11x7 sealed room with 3600 watts (2x1000 & 2x600) uncooled and his unit runs full blast the whole time the lights are on.

Thanks for gettin back to me evlme,, Actually my plan is a little different, Im running 2 8x8 rooms with a lung room in the center. (where the indoor mini split will be mounted) Exhaust fans on the ceiling in each grow chamber recycling back to the lung and passive intakes. Each room is a stadium with 2 1k bulbs hung vertcal, one on top of each other.

I will be doing a flip flop relay so that only one bulb is lit at a time in each room. ex; 6 hours the top light A will be lit, then flips to lower light B for the remaining 6.

So actually only 2 1k bulbs (1 in each room) will be lit at any given time. This is only during the warmer months.

Winter time i will be doing an open venting system. I like to have everything there so i can acclimate to my different seasons.

So, did the electrical wiring seem right? The way you did it?


But maybe i should go up a notch on the mini just in case i do ever want to run all 4 at once. 9but highly unlikely with my power company rates.

 

[Guest 18340]

Yes, the electrical wiring for the mini split, the way you described it is correct. It's the way I did mine.

 

[farmhouse cat]

Yes, the electrical wiring for the mini split, the way you described it is correct. It's the way I did mine.

Cool! Thanks man. One more question, Does your condensate tube run to the outside? like a flower bed etc? or do you drain it to a bucket and manually empty it? Im not sure if the mini splits have this issue with stinky water?

 

[Guest 18340]

I run mine outside. The tube is flexible like an accordion. I drilled a small hole in the wall and passed it thru that way, then caulked the hole. It's hidden behind bushes

 

[farmhouse cat]

Thanks for the help Rives. I really appreciate it. Im lost when it comes to the wiring stuff. The house is older and only has a 100amp main. But i am also having the main upgraded to 200 amps. I thought that doing a 60 amp to the garage would leave an extra 40 amps for the main house after the main upgrade.

But maybe a 100 sub might be better?

I could be wrong about the pumps. Here is the specs for the pump.

"
Electric Shallow Well water pump 1.6 HP 1200W Suction Height 27ft Qmax 3800 Lite Per Hour That is 1303Gallon Per Hour

Transfer water from wells, up moderate slopes and to the upper stories of buildings.
Braided steel tank hose, ,Steel pressure tank with gauge
Self-priming, Thermal protection 18" x 10 " x 19 " (L x W x H)



Specifications:

• Power Voltage: 115V / 60Hz​
• Above-Ground / On-Ground​
• 1.6HP Long Lasting Motor​
• Noise 68dB
• 1" Female Pipe Thread Connections Suction & Delivery Fitting​
• Max Suction Height 27ft. (8m)
• Pump Lift: 50mm 164ft
• max pressure 72PSI
• Max Head 35m
• Max Flow (63L/min)
• 4Ft Long Power Cord​
• Fluid Temperature Up To 35 Deg C..
• Maximum Ambient Temperature 35 Deg C.
• Drain Plug For Easy Maintenance Of Pump Corrosion-Proof​
• COLOR MAY VARY​
• Transparent Cover Allows You To See When Basket Needs To Be Clean​

Do i need dedicated circuits for the pumps?​

 

[rives]

Do i need dedicated circuits for the pumps?

If there is the slightest possibility that both pumps will try and run at the same time, then yes, they need dedicated circuits. If they are interlocked so that only one pump runs at a time, keeping the other pump in reserve as is common with industrial boiler rooms, then no.

 

[Derka]

Hello.

I am typically the first person to advocate diligent use of the search function, however this was bringing up a plethora of responses, none of which addressed my relatively simple questions.

I am attempting to put together a complete list of the required bits and pieces for an upcoming project. The load will be two 600 watt HID, a 1.5 amp blower fan, and several small oscillating fans.

The particular location has a 240v 50 amp (range) plug, triple spade style, and another 240v 30 amp (dryer) plug, also a triple spade.

We have one dedicated 110v 20 amp circuit that can be used.

What is required to run the two ballasts on 240v? Can the plugs simply be switched, or is some kind of light controller required? What are the budget options to running the lights on 240v?

If this is to expensive, is it safe to run the entire load on one 20 amp circuit?

Thank you in advance

 

[rives]

I am attempting to put together a complete list of the required bits and pieces for an upcoming project. The load will be two 600 watt HID, a 1.5 amp blower fan, and several small oscillating fans.

The particular location has a 240v 50 amp (range) plug, triple spade style, and another 240v 30 amp (dryer) plug, also a triple spade.

We have one dedicated 110v 20 amp circuit that can be used.

What is required to run the two ballasts on 240v? Can the plugs simply be switched, or is some kind of light controller required? What are the budget options to running the lights on 240v?

If this is to expensive, is it safe to run the entire load on one 20 amp circuit?

Thank you in advance

You don't mention what type of ballasts you are using. Many of the electronic ballasts operate on a wide range of voltages, so all that would be needed is the cord set changed. If they are magnetic ballasts, you would need to see if they are tapped for various voltages - if not, they can only run on the one that they are designed for.

I'm not sure that I understand your question about "the budget options to run the lights on 240". If you are simply looking for the cheapest way to do it, using a dryer cord set into an Intermatic T-104 and then feeding the appropriate receptacles (with some intermediate fusing to get the current limited to the receptacle amperage rating) would probably be the cheapest and easiest.

You didn't state the current rating on the oscillating fans or the number of them, but the whole thing should easily work on your dedicated 20 amp 120v circuit. For a continuous load like this, you would want to keep the load at 16 amps or less (80% of the breaker rating). With ballast losses, your 600's will pull in the neighborhood of 5.5 amps each, so with your 1.5 amp blower, you are around 12.5 amps. That leaves you with 3.5 amps of headroom for your other equipment, which is probably adequate.

 

[Derka]

Thank you for the prompt response Rives.

We are currently looking at using the steelbox magnetic ballasts, which are 120/240 compatible, depending on power cords. Previous research had indicated that to split the range or dryer socket would require a several hundred dollar light controller. If I can do dryer or range socket, to t104 intermatic and wire up a 240v socket to the intermatic.. then that seems to be about the best budget option.

Another question, there is a huge variance of Intermatic 240v timers that I've seen, from water heaters to swimming pools to horticulture use. Will any of these work, as long as they are rated for 240v?

Thank you again

 

[surfingrob]

Anyone still check this thread for questions? I have a few questions about 1-phase versus 3-phase for growrooms.

 

[rives]

Ask away.

 

[InnocenTurd]

Is it safe to use 12/2 romex connecting a 30amp 240v breaker to one 120v outlet using one hot pole.. everything is running cool and no breakers are tripping.

 

[rives]

Is it safe to use 12/2 romex connecting a 30amp 240v breaker to one 120v outlet... running 2x 120v ballasts. everything is running cool and no breakers are tripping.

No, #12 is rated at 20 amps - you would want #10 for a 30 amp circuit. The most commonly found 120v receptacles are rated at either 15 or 20 amps, not 30. You need a single-pole 120v breaker, not a double-pole 240v breaker.

 

[InnocenTurd]

Thanks for the reply rives. how "unsafe" do you think it is? the 12/2 is using only 1 of the hot poles on the 30amp breaker. a friend told me it would cut down the voltage/amps down by half making it a 120v 15amp power supply.... any truth to that? Here are some of my questions - should I remove this 12/2 line due to safety? Can I replace the line with #10 and keep the same 120v outlet? Or, can I replace the 240v breaker with a 120v breaker? I'm new to wiring and an "oldtimer" friend hooked this line up for me. He assures me it's fine; however, I'd rather be safe than sorry. I would rather spend money on the right gear!

 

[rives]

Thanks for the reply rives. how "unsafe" do you think it is? the 12/2 is using only 1 of the hot poles on the 30amp breaker. a friend told me it would cut down the voltage/amps down by half making it a 120v 15amp power supply.... any truth to that? Here are some of my questions - should I remove this 12/2 line due to safety? Can I replace the line with #10 and keep the same 120v outlet? Or, can I replace the 240v breaker with a 120v breaker? I'm new to wiring and an "oldtimer" friend hooked this line up for me. He assures me it's fine; however, I'd rather be safe than sorry. I would rather spend money on the right gear!

To take your questions in order: Regarding the safety of it, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I'm a retired electrician, and as I have stated on here many times, the code is a minimum guideline. It is put out by the NFPA, which stands for National Fire Protection Assoc., so that should give you an indication of where they are coming from.

Your friend's understanding of the way that the breaker functions is incorrect. Each leg will support 30 amps, it is not additive. That breaker is essentially two 120v, 30 amp breakers tied together with a common trip unit or a mechanical interlock on the handles.

If you need a 30 amp circuit to feed your equipment (bearing in mind that you should not exceed 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads, which are defined as being over 3 hours in duration. You really have 24 amps available for loads like your lights), then yes, the 12/2 should be changed out for #10 wire. The receptacle should also be changed out to a 30 amp model, which will then necessitate changing out the plugs. If your load will run on a 20 amp circuit (or 15, for that matter), then you can keep the 12/2 and the existing receptacle, and simply change the breaker to a single-pole version of the correct size. If you can get to the wiring that easily, you could pull out your double-pole 240v breaker and replace it with (2) single-pole, 120v 15 or 20 amp breakers and pull another circuit over beside the first one (keeping the 80% rule in mind, of course). This would give you lots more options.

If you list the equipment that you have hooked up, including the number of components, and the amperage/wattage/voltage of each, I might be able to help you further.

 

[InnocenTurd]

there is only one 12/2 line running from the 30a breaker which supply's 1 outlet. I have 2x 600w HPS lights plugged into this outlet. I have very good quality magnetic ballasts. Is there a reason why I haven't had any problems/accidents thus far? Why are my lights working fine and the 12/2 cable cool-to-the touch? Just luck? I don't like to rely on luck. Also, I didn't know you could downgrade voltage by purchasing/installing a single pole 120v 15a replacement breaker for my 240v 30a slot. Really? Thanks again rives. Your saving lives... literally.

 

[rives]

there is only one 12/2 line running from the 30a breaker which supply's 1 outlet. I have 2x 600w HPS lights plugged into this outlet. I have very good quality magnetic ballasts. Is there a reason why I haven't had any problems/accidents thus far? Why are my lights working fine and the 12/2 cable cool-to-the touch? Just luck? I don't like to rely on luck. Also, I didn't know you could downgrade voltage by purchasing/installing a single pole 120v 15a replacement breaker for my 240v 30a slot. Really? Thanks again rives. Your saving lives... literally.

The way that you have everything right now works fine until something goes wrong........then you have inadequate protection. The way that electricity works is that, when everything is healthy and functioning properly, it only uses as much power as needed to do it's job. The problem comes when something shorts out - then the current flow is only limited by the "impedance" (resistance) of the system feeding it until the breaker trips. The breaker is supposed to be sized to protect the weakest component in the system, which in your case is probably the receptacle itself. #12 wire is rated to carry 20 amps, and you are pulling less than 11 amps with your two 600's. If you are using a conventional 15 amp receptacle, you are still at 73% of what it is rated at - so yes, I would expect that everything is running cool and working fine. That will continue to be the case right up until the time when something goes wrong with one of your ballasts, maybe tonight while you are sleeping, or maybe never.

Going to a single-pole 15 amp breaker doesn't do anything to change the voltage - you are currently using only one leg of your double-pole breaker, so you are already at 120v. It will, however, limit the current (amperage) to safe levels if something goes wrong. Additionally, your double-pole breaker may work fine when using only half of it. If it is the style with two operators on the front tied together with a bar, then it is really two 120v breakers tied together. Using only half of it, with one side cold and the other up to operating temperature, the cold side may provide resistance to its freely operating when it tries to trip. Aside from being the wrong amperage, it might work fine, or it might not. It is not being used the way that it was designed to work, and is a $7 part. Is it worth betting your house on?

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist here, but the only reason that people are as complacent about electricity as they are is because of nearly universal adherence to the electrical code for the last century. Installations that are done properly have enough safeguards that it is well-tamed and no one thinks twice about it. When things go awry, it can be some really scary shit.

You've got good questions - hopefully the my answers explain clearly enough. If not, ask me to clarify it.

 

[InnocenTurd]

thank you again for your reply Rives. Your not being too "alarmist" because this is a very serious issue. I'm a medical grower who doesn't like to take risks, and honestly I should have asked these questions months ago. your absolutely right - a $7 part is priceless. Thanks for being succinct. I talked to my father and he said the same thing about lowering the breaker amperage to gain protection.

I want to keep my 120v outlet and 12/2 wiring and only replace the 240v breaker with a single-pole 15amp 120v breaker.

When I go to the home store, am I looking for a 15a breaker that fits/covers the entire double-slot area in the panel? Or do I need a regular "single-width" 120v 15a breaker? Is it a specific kind of 120v breaker?

Also, my 12/2 wiring has 1 copper, 1 white, and 1 black. The copper and white wires are connected to the same ground board. When changing the breaker should I keep the white and copper lines attached to this ground board while I touch only the black wire? I'll remove the black wire from the 30a breaker, remove the 30a breaker from the panel, insert the black wire into the new 15a breaker, and then plug the new breaker into the panel? Thank you for all of your help! Anything I'm missing?