I need to improve my transition from clone dome to veg

[thal]

This is the weak link in my growing. I have a five week schedule that I need to keep, and this is the longest stage. I estimate right now it takes roughly 10 days, maybe 14 days, before my clone starts to get good veg growth. I'm going to give a lot of details so the recommendations are more specific to my situation.

Cloning method:

I use a regular clone dome, with grodan cubes in the bottom tray, a mesh dome on top of that, and then 1.5" rockwool cubes. I soak both the grodan cubes, and the rockwool cubes, in pH 5.5 water.

I take the clones extra long, trim all the leaves down to the top node. Trim the top node in half, and then cut the extra length off. I put the cut clone in a tub of Rootech cloning gel. I allow them to sit in the gel for several minutes and then place them in the rockwool cube.

Once my dome is full I spray the lid and mist the clones. The dome is set on a thermostat controlled heating pad set for 72 degrees. I get good roots in 10-14 days

I take the clone and place it in a 1 gallon container with roughly a half gallon of Gold Label coco coir.

I my water is run through a tall boy filter and I adjust the pH to 5.9 or 6.0. I use Botanicare CNS veg nutes, at 500 ppm. I flood them once per 24 hours for 15 minutes.

Along with the CNS I add Cal Mg, and hygrozyme.

The clones are put on a 4'x8' table, currently with 2kw but I'm about to reduce it to 1kw.

What I think is happening is that the plants are getting shocked when transferred out of the dome and put on the table. Either the pH swing is too high, or the lighting is too bright, or something. The plants get shocked and take a while to fill the new medium with roots, and I don't get any veg growth during that time.

I need to stimulate the root growth. I think hygrozyme is a decent additive but there are probably much better products.

Can anyone suggest a better rooting additive?

Are there any adjustments I can make to my grow method? I'm not going to completely switch my method, simply fine tune it. So I'm not going to change mediums. However, if I need to adjust my pH, ppm, or anything else I gladly will.

Thanks in advance.

 

[High Country]

Delete all chemicals...you con't need them.

Stable temps.....don't over complicate cloning....they have no roots...they don't need food until 2-3 weeks.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

I think your right about the light intensity thal.

How much light are the fresh cuttings put under?

There probably should be slightly more intense lighting once they start showing roots, but not near a 1kw, maybe some T8s or T5s.

 

[thal]

The domes are getting some side light from a 1kw bulb.

I think taking them down to 1kw is going to be my first step. I will be able to test that in the next 10 days. I'll see if that helps before potentially switching to the T5s or T8s.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

I start my cuttings out domed with one T12 about 1.5 to 2 feet above them, then once I see a few roots on them, lower the light to right above them and once they are thoroughly rooted they get moved a 4 bulb T8 veg area with the mothers. Moving them any sooner will cause the tops to limp over and point to the ground.

 

[FreezerBoy]

High RH is bad for weed. You acclimated them to lethal levels of humidity, forced them into dependency, and then yanked it away.

While I hit 100% rooting under a dome, dome weaning killed 60% of them. So I threw the dome in the trash and death went with it. With short cuts and well trimmed leaves, I've rooted successfully at 15% RH, no mist, no spray, no dome.

While the pic below is at 28%, that's a far cry from the 90-100% RH domes can cause. Try it dome free and then you wont have to wean.

 

[wisco61]

If you don't want to completely get rid of the dome, you could wean them off it. Take off your dome until they start wilting, then put it back on. At first it will be maybe less than an hour, but each time they will get a little stronger.

I think going from a dome to none plus transplant shock plus light shock plus nute shock is stalling them out hardcore.

 

[budshoteyes]

Never use a dome unless your air is extremely dry.
Nutes...1/4 at best for rooting and 1/2 during veg.

What is a mesh dome?

 

[budshoteyes]

Go to this thread "rooting with rockwol"
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4535708#post4535708

Your method reads way to complicated

 

[smokefrogg]

i have had some of the same issues, the way i remedied it for the most part was to start weening them off, if they are in the dome for 7 days, i'll open it up or prop it up a bit more and a bit more the last 3 days until i end up taking the dome off completely, giving them a slow transition like this has made a world of difference for me

 

[thefalsediviner]

I take the clone and place it in a 1 gallon container with roughly a half gallon of Gold Label coco coir.

I my water is run through a tall boy filter and I adjust the pH to 5.9 or 6.0. I use Botanicare CNS veg nutes, at 500 ppm. I flood them once per 24 hours for 15 minutes.

Along with the CNS I add Cal Mg, and hygrozyme.

The clones are put on a 4'x8' table, currently with 2kw but I'm about to reduce it to 1kw.

What I think is happening is that the plants are getting shocked when transferred out of the dome and put on the table. Either the pH swing is too high, or the lighting is too bright, or something. The plants get shocked and take a while to fill the new medium with roots, and I don't get any veg growth during that time.

I need to stimulate the root growth. I think hygrozyme is a decent additive but there are probably much better products.

Can anyone suggest a better rooting additive?

Are there any adjustments I can make to my grow method? I'm not going to completely switch my method, simply fine tune it. So I'm not going to change mediums. However, if I need to adjust my pH, ppm, or anything else I gladly will.

Thanks in advance.

in addition to everything HighCountry said:

Your over doing it. Roots in 10-14 days is good so you got that down . I would expect a considerable delay in rapid veg growth while you roots work to fill the container. 1/2 gallon is way to big at the 2-4 week stage. I would go at maybe a liter of media then step up, a tall 3"ish rock-wool cube would be easy enough to step up to your gal. container in a couple of weeks. I think they are like a buck fifty each. I also think you may be too intense on the light, but I don't grow with HIDs in veg, so maybe someone else will be able to chime in.

I hope that helps,
tfd

 

[Lime Bubble]

i agree with the ^above in regards to no dome.
To master the technique of no dome should solve your problems, ive got a batch with no dome atm but took another round in the dome for insurance.

Google 'Al b fuct cloning in rockwool' has a great tutorial, he takes clones in rockwool cubes, no dome, sets them in a wooden box/crate lined in mylar, 3x twin 18W fluoros (on 24/7), a fixed-temp (30C) heat mat and a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan. The ballasts on the fluoro lights put a fair amount of heat into the air. When the temp comes up to 26.5C, the fan kicks on and exhausts
His clones go straight under 1k's in zero veg SOG

 

[thal]

High RH is bad for weed. You acclimated them to lethal levels of humidity, forced them into dependency, and then yanked it away.

While I hit 100% rooting under a dome, dome weaning killed 60% of them. So I threw the dome in the trash and death went with it. With short cuts and well trimmed leaves, I've rooted successfully at 15% RH, no mist, no spray, no dome.

While the pic below is at 28%, that's a far cry from the 90-100% RH domes can cause. Try it dome free and then you wont have to wean.

I was concerned about the humidity as well, and tried going with an aerocloner with no dome, as well as cubes with no dome, and the cubes with the dome being removed for 8 hours a day.

I get the highest percentage of rooted clones using the dome, and only lose a couple per big patch during the weaning process.

So I think hardening will help but I'm not sure its the total solution.

 

[thal]

in addition to everything HighCountry said:

Your over doing it. Roots in 10-14 days is good so you got that down . I would expect a considerable delay in rapid veg growth while you roots work to fill the container. 1/2 gallon is way to big at the 2-4 week stage. I would go at maybe a liter of media then step up, a tall 3"ish rock-wool cube would be easy enough to step up to your gal. container in a couple of weeks. I think they are like a buck fifty each. I also think you may be too intense on the light, but I don't grow with HIDs in veg, so maybe someone else will be able to chime in.

I hope that helps,
tfd

I've tried using smaller containers and smaller amounts of medium, but that doesn't seem to help much either. Plus I have a strict schedule to keep and I'm not sure if I can fit in another transplant.

I'm not trying to be stubborn, I just have to be able to fit these changes into my setup.

 

[thal]

Never use a dome unless your air is extremely dry.
Nutes...1/4 at best for rooting and 1/2 during veg.

What is a mesh dome?

It's the image in the middle of this picture:

My air is extremely dry. I'm in an arid climate and I have a very hard time keeping humidity in my veg room.

 

[est1977]

This is the weak link in my growing. I have a five week schedule that I need to keep, and this is the longest stage. I estimate right now it takes roughly 10 days, maybe 14 days, before my clone starts to get good veg growth. I'm going to give a lot of details so the recommendations are more specific to my situation.

Cloning method:

I use a regular clone dome, with grodan cubes in the bottom tray, a mesh dome on top of that, and then 1.5" rockwool cubes. I soak both the grodan cubes, and the rockwool cubes, in pH 5.5 water.

I take the clones extra long, trim all the leaves down to the top node. Trim the top node in half, and then cut the extra length off. I put the cut clone in a tub of Rootech cloning gel. I allow them to sit in the gel for several minutes and then place them in the rockwool cube.

Once my dome is full I spray the lid and mist the clones. The dome is set on a thermostat controlled heating pad set for 72 degrees. I get good roots in 10-14 days

I take the clone and place it in a 1 gallon container with roughly a half gallon of Gold Label coco coir.

I my water is run through a tall boy filter and I adjust the pH to 5.9 or 6.0. I use Botanicare CNS veg nutes, at 500 ppm. I flood them once per 24 hours for 15 minutes.

Along with the CNS I add Cal Mg, and hygrozyme.

The clones are put on a 4'x8' table, currently with 2kw but I'm about to reduce it to 1kw.

What I think is happening is that the plants are getting shocked when transferred out of the dome and put on the table. Either the pH swing is too high, or the lighting is too bright, or something. The plants get shocked and take a while to fill the new medium with roots, and I don't get any veg growth during that time.

I need to stimulate the root growth. I think hygrozyme is a decent additive but there are probably much better products.

Can anyone suggest a better rooting additive?

Are there any adjustments I can make to my grow method? I'm not going to completely switch my method, simply fine tune it. So I'm not going to change mediums. However, if I need to adjust my pH, ppm, or anything else I gladly will.

Thanks in advance.

once you notice roots take off your dome ,if you notice them wilting put it back on try again. open the vents all the way and let them chill after about two days of this they will be hardy enough to plant . everything else your doing is fine

 

[vdog]

Unless its to cold and you need light for heat purposes, I do NOT clone with lights, I have a homemade bubble cloner that I leave sit on a desk in front of a window that is exposed to the sun, and it works great. The indoor central air keeps the room at 77 degress and with no lights on the cloner other than the sun it works out great, near 100% rate.

As far as a transistion, what I would suggest is letting you clones root longer in the dome that way they are more adaptive to the less humid environment when they get exposed. In addition keep them cool and away from direct light for the first day or two, as I said clones dont need direct light like a hps, I believe the company ez-clone displays and root with their 300 site cloner under a single t10 flouro. If you dont believe me, you can pull up their number from of the web and confirm it with them.

Remember powerful lights to grow, low light to root.

 

[Haps]

Loose the dome. Look at Peregrin Tooks cloning thread, I am switching over to that completely. Easy simple, I got 100% first round.